Tesla's long-delayed Model X SUV is testing in California

[haraldo]

What is insane is that ..... The P85D is half a second faster 0 - 60 MPH than a Ferrari Enzo !!!!!

 

[haraldo]

Actually, over here the Tesla Model S has an entry price of $59K, can it be that it's really cheaper here than in US, what's the entry price of Model S in US?
P85D 4WD is $86.800
Porsche Panamera Turbo S is $323.000 ... Which makes the Tesla's kind of a bargain

We're driving in lots of winter conditions around here, and the Tesla's work out fine .... there were some issues with the charging system a while back in extremely cold conditions, but Mr Musk himself flew over to calm down the waves.

The problems were quickly escalated to make a fix, and since then it's only good things to say, from what I heard
In March 2014, Model S was the best selling car in the country

All in all, Tesla is doing great, even in a winter country

 

[Adam]

That's insane that an American-made car is selling for so much less over there than here. Heck, if I could get a P85D for $87k...okay, fine, I still wouldn't get it.

 

[haraldo]

That's insane that an American-made car is selling for so much less over there than here. Heck, if I could get a P85D for $87k...okay, fine, I still wouldn't get it.

It's just government making incentives for people to buy electric cars, you should really push US government to do the same guys !!!

 

[Irvrobinson]

It's just government making incentives for people to buy electric cars, you should really push US government to do the same guys !!!

The USG does offer an incentive to buy electric cars - a $7500 income tax credit. Personally, I think it's pretty bogus to subsidize a $125k car, but no one ever accused Congress of having foresight or group intelligence. So rich people get free fuel in a lot of places, avoid paying road taxes, and get a tax break to buy a 690hp luxury car.

 

[Rickster71]

And you can drive in the bus lane, there are no road taxes, no tolls on any toll roads, and you can take it for free on any ferries, free charging in all public places, free parking .... anywhere

Pretty good incentives for electric cars

I'm wondering.
If electric cars and photovoltaic panels (for that matter) are so good.
Why all the government incentives?

 

[Adam]

So rich people get free fuel in a lot of places, avoid paying road taxes, and get a tax break to buy a 690hp luxury car.

Ummm...aren't you buying one?

 

[Adam]

I'm wondering.
If electric cars and photovoltaic panels (for that matter) are so good.
Why all the government incentives?

My guess? The incentives are to help offset the higher cost of a less mature technology in order to help steer society towards it. The government has a reason to become less dependent on fossil fuels, and these technologies can help do that. Not only is it about changing the mentality of the populace, it may ultimately save federal dollars in research if the public begins to buy products that fund more research.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Ummm...aren't you buying one?

Maybe. But I'd rather have my tax rate made more reasonable for earned income than have a bogus tax credit which forces me to buy a certain product to get it. Sometimes the USG needs an enema.

 

[Adam]

Maybe. But I'd rather have my tax rate made more reasonable for earned income than have a bogus tax credit which forces me to buy a certain product to get it. Sometimes the USG needs an enema.

Oh, I was just implying that you're rich.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Oh, I was just implying that you're rich.

I'm actually just a junior high school kid posting from the public library. It's amazing how many people you can fool with good grammar and Google.

 

[Swerd]

Just a few hints …

It's been middle school, not junior high school, for a number of years now.

No self-respecting middle school kid would be caught dead in a public library.

No self-respecting middle school kid knows how to spell grammar, much less, knows what might or might not be good grammar.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just a few hints …

It's been middle school, not junior high school, for a number of years now.

No self-respecting middle school kid would be caught dead in a public library.

No self-respecting middle school kid knows how to spell grammar, much less, knows what might or might not be good grammar.

Alright, nicely done, I'm busted. I even looked it up, and in the school system I attended the junior high school is now called a middle school. I thought that was only a left coast thing. As for the other stuff, you have a mighty cynical view of the youth these days. It reminds me of the '60s, all over again.

 

[Rickster71]

My guess? The incentives are to help offset the higher cost of a less mature technology in order to help steer society towards it. The government has a reason to become less dependent on fossil fuels, and these technologies can help do that. Not only is it about changing the mentality of the populace, it may ultimately save federal dollars in research if the public begins to buy products that fund more research.

My $0.02 and two points.
1. It's amusing to me how supposedly "New" technology is resold to a younger generation.
2. This time around few are mentioning the government subsidies are just old fashioned Corporate Welfare.

As for new tech - The solar cell was invented in the 1950's at AT&T Bell Labs.
It wasn't widely adopted because of inefficiency and being expensive in comparison to the price per kWh of land line power. Most younger people are shocked to learn how old photovoltaic is.

Selling the younger generation "The Cloud"
Hey isn't that the same server we used to complain about being so slow and being down so much?

I get it, electric vehicles really are, less mature, as you mentioned.
The iPod, iPad, iPhone were all also new tech that didn't need corporate welfare and they practically sold themselves.
I liked it better when Edward Bernays called marketing what it really was, Propaganda.

 

[Adam]

I intentionally didn't call them "new." They are less mature than other technologies though, I think. Even if they are mature - I think we can agree that they are less established. Plus, the government can and does try to manipulate behavior via tax incentives.

I don't mind the incentives - I like the idea of electric cars. Do I think that they are more environmentally friendly? Not sure, but they can more centrally locate the pollution in a way that is easier to control. Plus, for non-gas technologies, electricity is the one with the biggest existing infrastructure and best suited to initially provide a realistic fuel source for travel.

 

[Rickster71]

Tax incentives...... OK so we're sticking with the euphemisms.

I too, like the 'Idea' of electric cars.
I just think early adopters are being sold something half baked.
Seems like it would end up being a second or third car for a family, not necessarily the primary.
I don't believe that's going to help the environment or the owners.

They're still not ready for Prime Time and seem only suitable for limited use IMO.
Battery technology isn't keeping up with the hype. One point not mentioned in the advertising brochures: Fast chargers shorten the life of batteries.
The need for heat and air conditioning also use too much power. Both the AC's electromagnetic clutch and compressor will need power, as well the heating coil.
How much money for a car without heat or AC and limited range?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Tax incentives...... OK so we're sticking with the euphemisms.

I too, like the 'Idea' of electric cars.
I just think early adopters are being sold something half baked.
Seems like it would end up being a second or third car for a family, not necessarily the primary.
I don't believe that's going to help the environment or the owners.

They're still not ready for Prime Time and seem only suitable for limited use IMO.
Battery technology isn't keeping up with the hype. One point not mentioned in the advertising brochures: Fast chargers shorten the life of batteries.
The need for heat and air conditioning also use too much power. Both the AC's electromagnetic clutch and compressor will need power, as well the heating coil.
How much money for a car without heat or AC and limited range?

I'm on a different page, Rick. Even assuming my lead foot, hilly terrain, A/C on, the 85KW Tesla will do about 150 miles, and I can charge it overnight on any 120v outlet. Heat is derived from electric motor waste heat. My gasoline daily driver goes farther before I feel like filling it, about 200 miles (I fill up before I get down to 1/4 tank), but I can't refill it at home. Or the office, or many parking lots. As for the fast charging issue regarding battery life-span, Tesla gives you an 8-year, unlimited mile battery warranty. Not to mention that if you don't like your battery you can soon pay a modest amount to swap it for a different one.

After driving the Tesla, gasoline-powered cars seemed very old-fashioned. Seriously. My wife and I both noticed the effect, and we're long-time car people. We have his and hers sports cars. If I get the Tesla (it's a bigger "if" than my tone here is probably letting on) it'll be my daily driver, and I would fully intend to take it on 700 mile trips. Much to my surprise, there was nothing half-baked about it. I'm just reticent about the $125K part of the transaction.

One interesting maintenance issue I've found so far... the battery structure has an active liquid-filled cooling system, and the coolant needs changing every five years. The interesting part is that unless a Tesla tech does it your warranty is voided. The only other maintenance Tesla lists is a brake fluid change; that's a little different than our Porsches.

 

[3db]

Call me dinosaur but I can't get excited over a vehicle that is dead quiet and vibrationless. I need a vehicle with visceral feedback such as exhaust notes and fumes, rumbling and vibrations. I understand the reason behind the Tesla and the need for it but I rather the ancient technology. Its just more inspiring to me.

 

[Swerd]

One interesting maintenance issue I've found so far... the battery structure has an active liquid-filled cooling system, and the coolant needs changing every five years. The interesting part is that unless a Tesla tech does it your warranty is voided.

Active liquid-filled cooling system for the battery, interesting. Again, I learn something new about electric cars, even though I'm not shopping for one.

Does this liquid cooling system ever heat the battery, helping increase output in cold weather? Or is it there to prevent only overheating (and possible fires), such as might happen during recharging?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think the Teslas are beautiful cars and apparently, they are of very high quality. I have to wonder though, have there been any cradle to grave studies comparing the environmental impact of the Tesla with a similar gas-powered vehicle? I understand those batteries contain some pretty exotic/toxic elements - how easy is it to recycle them? Then, there is the source of the electricity used to charge the battery. Here's a short, but interesting article discussing the issues:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2013/07/21/are-electric-cars-really-that-polluting/

Then there is the issue of incentives and rebates for purchasing an electric vehicle. It could be argued that it's a legitimate measure if you were buying, let's say, a Nissan Leaf. But, for a luxury car like the Tesla....I'm not so sure. If you can afford that car, you can afford it without any other incentive.