Help w Revel Studio 2 speaker match w/ amplifier

[RichB]

Rich, I love the cat clock

Thanks. Gentlemen meet shadow:

He came running from the other room when he first heard the Parasound A21

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would go ATI over Outlaw...

Why pay $2K more (new) for the AT2005 when you can get it's twin clone Outlaw 7500 amp for $1600?

They are clones - fully balanced, 200WPC x 5Ch, fuse-less circuit protection so you never have to worry about any fuses.

 

[RichB]

Why pay $2K more (new) for the AT2005 when you can get it's twin clone Outlaw 7500 amp for $1600?

They are clones - fully balanced, 200WPC x 5Ch, fuse-less circuit protection so you never have to worry about any fuses.

In correspondence with ATI, I was told they designs are similar but ATI builds amps according to the specifications of the customer. For example, the ATI3000 series uses half the output devices with a safer operating area than those used in 7900. Who's to say which performs better but I trust ATI's design choice. So the 7900 is not a clone of the ATI3000.

Perhaps the 7500 is a clone of the ATI2000 but it may not be. ATI can be purchased from classicaudioparts.com or better yet call. I can think of a poster than is pretty good at getting deals

I have fuses and I don't worry about them but if you do, ATI is a winner.

- Rich

 

[Seth=L]

I agree that the Outlaw would serve the requirements. I prefer the no frills look of ATI and Outlaw to Emotiva's more glitzy attempt.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In correspondence with ATI, I was told they designs are similar but ATI builds amps according to the specifications of the customer. For example, the ATI3000 series uses half the output devices with a safer operating area than those used in 7900. Who's to say which performs better but I trust ATI's design choice. So the 7900 is not a clone of the ATI3000.

Perhaps the 7500 is a clone of the ATI2000 but it may not be. ATI can be purchased from classicaudioparts.com or better yet call. I can think of a poster than is pretty good at getting deals

I have fuses and I don't worry about them but if you do, ATI is a winner.

- Rich

Even b-stock ATI AT2005 from CAP is now $2700 compared to a brand new Outlaw 7500 for $1600. I doubt anyone is going to hear a difference between the 7500 & the AT2005. If they are not identical, they are pretty close and the Outlaw 7500 is made by ATI in California in the same factory.

The 7500 even has actual 3rd party measurements from Home Theater Magazine (now S&V):

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/outlaw-audio-7500-5-channel-power-amplifier-measurements

This graph shows that the 7500’s left channel, with two channels driving 8-ohm loads continuously at 1 kHz, reached 0.1% distortion at 284.9 watts and 1% distortion at 342.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 447.6 watts and 1% distortion at 492.8 watts.

With five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, the AVR reached 0.1% distortion at 260.1 watts and 1% distortion at 301.1 watts. The manufacturer’s stated distortion of 0.03% was reached at 238.7 watts, which is actually higher than the spec'd 200Wpc at that distortion level with all channels driven.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree that the Outlaw would serve the requirements. I prefer the no frills look of ATI and Outlaw to Emotiva's more glitzy attempt.

We should start up an amp company and call it NAE (North American Electronics). We'll have ATI make us clones of the AT3002/AT3003/AT3005/AT3007 & AT2002/AT2003/AT2005/AT2007. Have ATI put the amps inside a simple clean black aluminum case with no lights other than a single dim green power light.

The amps would be called "NAE 2005", "NAE 3005", etc.

 

[RichB]

ATI pricing has gone up. For brands that are not sold directly, you need to contact dealers, including classic audio parts and use the Outlaw pricing to bargain.

For brands like Parasound, you can usually get 20% off.
The 7500 is an ATI design and that is worth taking into consideration when buying from Outlaw. I had my 7500 repaired from ATI and they were fantastic. I am not sure what happens with the Outlaw amps built overseas.

As you know, I owned the 7500, ATI3005, Parasound A51. Not all at the same time, but the 7500 and A51 at the same time and did some completely subjective listening tests that prove absolutely nothing. Except, I preferred the A51 to he 7500 and felt the bass was better controlled it is seems "cleaner". I did not own the ATI3005 and A51 at the same time, but my feeling is they were similar with the ATI3000 being a bit more powerful. There was nothing (other than transformer hum) and faceplate not to like. It is a great amp. These are my impressions and nothing more.

Parasound carries a significant premium. For value, my experience so far leads me to want to buy ATI directly if possible and haggle the price to within range.

- Rich

 

[KEW]

Do all transformers hum, or just toroidal transformers?
I ask because among the amps I have, the Elin transformer in my Yamaha Amp does not produce hum (at least compared to the others).
I will have to actually put my ear on it and listen, but I am certain it is substantially quieter that any other of the amps and receivers I have hoarded over the years.

 

[Seth=L]

We should start up an amp company and call it NAE (North American Electronics). We'll have ATI make us clones of the AT3002/AT3003/AT3005/AT3007 & AT2002/AT2003/AT2005/AT2007. Have ATI put the amps inside a simple clean black aluminum case with no lights other than a single dim green power light.

The amps would be called "NAE 2005", "NAE 3005", etc.

I've been thinking about making amplifiers based on a certain aesthetic and form factor (cough, not spillin). It's an idea if that I ever come into a position to be able to pull it off, I'm going to take the audio world by storm.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Do all transformers hum, or just toroidal transformers?

All transformers hum. It reminds me of a line out of the movie "Just one of the guys"... "All balls itch." How much depends on various factors, in both cases.

 

[Irvrobinson]

ATI pricing has gone up.

Some... it looks like about 10%. As for the Outlaw versus ATI argument, I'd rather have the amps they put their name on than the amps spec'd to meet the pricing target Outlaw sets, though the fact that ATI will service Outlaw amps is a plus.

 

[Seth=L]

Do all transformers hum, or just toroidal transformers?

I had always understood toroidal transformers to be quieter than E core. It was also my understanding that S type, like you find in some NAD equipment and Bose Wave systems, were even quieter than toroidal. This is not to say that an E core can't be quieter than a toroidal. Of course as the noise level goes down the price goes up, but all things being the same the pecking order would be E core, toroidal, S core.

Someone please educate me if I'm way off base.

 

[PENG]

Do all transformers hum, or just toroidal transformers?

Yes, and i am glad IRV agreed. Everything being equal toroidal probably should be quieter but I don't think it is a significant factor at all.

I ask because among the amps I have, the Elin transformer in my Yamaha Amp does not produce hum (at least compared to the others).
I will have to actually put my ear on it and listen, but I am certain it is substantially quieter that any other of the amps and receivers I have hoarded over the years.

My old Denon 3805's EI core transformer was almost completely silent, much quieter than the toroids in the Bryston and Halo amps. After so many years, recently it started to hum a little louder and is now about as loud (or quiet) as the Halo A21. You do have to put you ear on it to hear it so it really is a non issue.

 

[ski2xblack]

Regarding hiss and ATI in particular, one thing that seems odd to me is that my lowly AT602 has gain controls, as does the 1202, yet they are absent on the more expensive series (at least last I checked). Am I alone in favoring amps with gain controls?

 

[RichB]

Some... it looks like about 10%. As for the Outlaw versus ATI argument, I'd rather have the amps they put their name on than the amps spec'd to meet the pricing target Outlaw sets, though the fact that ATI will service Outlaw amps is a plus.

Which include most of the outlaw amps except the M2200 and the new Model 5000 which are made overseas.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Regarding hiss and ATI in particular, one thing that seems odd to me is that my lowly AT602 has gain controls, as does the 1202, yet they are absent on the more expensive series (at least last I checked). Am I alone in favoring amps with gain controls?

I wish all of my amps have gain controls. I think it's convenient.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Which include most of the outlaw amps except the M2200 and the new Model 5000 which are made overseas.

- Rich

It makes sense ATI only service the Outlaw amps that ATI actually made in their factory in California.

It is understandable that ATI will not service the amps they did not make - the M2200, 5000, and any other Outlaw units that are not made by ATI.

 

[class a]

It makes sense ATI only service the Outlaw amps that ATI actually made in their factory in California.

It is understandable that ATI will not service the amps they did not make - the M2200, 5000, and any other Outlaw units that are not made by ATI.

I would check out Odyssey Audio. The Stratos 3-HT goes for around $1650 & the 2 channel Khartago for $995. You will talk to the owner and the man that will build your amps Klaus Bunge. His Warranty is 20 years on all parts and if you need more power down the line you can upgrade the amps. Check out the review of the Stratos amps in this months Absolute Sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would check out Odyssey Audio. The Stratos 3-HT goes for around $1650 & the 2 channel Khartago for $995. You will talk to the owner and the man that will build your amps Klaus Bunge. His Warranty is 20 years on all parts and if you need more power down the line you can upgrade the amps. Check out the review of the Stratos amps in this months Absolute Sound.

Why would people get a 150WPC x 3Ch NOT FULLY Balanced amp for $1650 when they can get a 200WPC x 5Ch ATI clone FULLY BALANCED amp for $1600?

I might see a point if the Odyssey amp is cheaper and has the same power output.

ATI has been around for 30+ years. How long as Odyssey Audio been around? Will Odyssey be around in 20 years?

The Outlaw has no fuse to change. The Odyssey has fuse.

 

[PENG]

I wish all of my amps have gain controls. I think it's convenient.

You have to get permission from the purists/audiophiles first.