Suggestions for music streamer

[Jesper Rou]

Hi,

I have a really hard time finding a suitable device for music streaming.
I'm basically looking for a UPnP/DLNA renderer that supports FLAC in 24/192, gapless playback and outputs coaxial digital to my receiver.

I have looked at several devices but for most of them, I pay for a lot of hardware/functionality that I'll never use, or they are simply not good enough.

Some of the devices I've tried or looked at:
- Cambridge Stream Magic 6v2.
Overpriced for my use. I wont use the pre-amp option, as I dont have a cambridge amp. I wont use the DAC either, as my surround receiver will reconvert to digital for its room correction. And, the gapless playback is flaky and sometimes gap anyways.
Only with IOS or Android devices can the unit be fully configured. Thats a shitty practice IMO. Better give it a web interface for that.
Other than that, it sounds pretty awesome.
- Pioneer N-P01. I'm not a super Pioneer fan and havent looked at it further..
- Yamaha CD-N301. I dont like paying for the CD transport, when its not used. And I expect to be the streaming part of the device to be the least expensive part.
- Krell Connect and Aurelic Aries. Both way over my price range

I would really love to find a purely digital renderer.
Someone suggested I look at (build) something based on Volumio, but I worry that I won't get the audio quality I look for.

Any suggestions?


My setup is.
Source: Synology DS1513 NAS. I use their own Media Center app.
Controller: Synology DSAudio on Windows Phone app, or tablet.
Amp: Denon AVR3805.
Network: wired gigabit

(I would link to the devices, but am not allowed)

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

FireTv stick($39) with plex should do the trick. I believe that you could install plex server on your nas box.
Or you could sideload kodi. I know for fact kodi with render flac over dlna

 

[Hobbit]

You might want to take a look at this:

https://gracedigital.com/shop/tuner/#.VLkgukfF98E

You can find it at Amazon for ~$150. It has the digital outs. There's a great phone app you can download that adds functionality and is easier to use than the front panel's menu system. You can go on line to search for stations and add them to your player there.

There's more functionality than is listed too. If you don't see something you'd like, just send them an email. It may be there or they may be able to add it for you. I've requested stations and they added them within a couple of days.

 

[Jesper Rou]

FireTv stick

Kidding?
What would I plug it into?
There's no Ethernet port, no coaxial digital output.
It requires a TV, which I don't have and the specs I can find mention nothing of 24bit/192mhz.
In short, not interesting

Apart from all that.. quite a neat little device really. But I'm not partial to anything requiring subscriptions. Its vendor-locking and lifetime-limiting.

 

[Jesper Rou]

You might want to take a look at this:
Grace Digital Tuner Pro

That is more along the line of what I was looking for, but it falls through on a couple of things.
- It only supports 24/96
- No UPnP/DLNA, meaning no Push, only Pull. Definately a showstopper.
- Dosn't allow you to add custom net radio stations. This is bad, as it prevents you from using subscription HD radio. Regular net radio is usually crappy quality MP3, smothered in ads

It does looks like a regular hifi component. It just dosn't live up to it

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

No, I'm not kidding. You asked good question and im tried to give you a solution which you are obviously not familiar with.

In short i don't care, but for sake of argument fire stick has mimo 802.11n wifi. You could plug it into your reciever and after initial set up monitor would be no longer needed. Hdmi beats coax, by far. Sideload kodi(xbmc) and you will beat vendor locking. If you even half intelligent as you seem to be, you would at least take a serious look at what i am proposing.

 

[Hobbit]

- No UPnP/DLNA, meaning no Push, only Pull. Definately a showstopper.

- Dosn't allow you to add custom net radio stations. This is bad, as it prevents you from using subscription HD radio. Regular net radio is usually crappy quality MP3, smothered in ads

It does looks like a regular hifi component. It just dosn't live up to it

For my curiosity can you clarify what you mean by no push? Are you trying to use a single device like this to stream to all your systems? That would be nice. This device is UPnP and DLNA. It's the same interface as the Cambridge 6v2 (supplied by Reciva I believe). The only thing I see 6v2 does have over this is the 24/192 (ignoring the DAC, upsampling, bluetooth, as my pre does all this, and being I'm sending digital out via toslink I have no need for the xlr outputs). But, $150 vs $1000....

I'm not following you third comment either? What specifically are you looking for? I have at least 25 network radio stations bookmarked. When you get your radio and register it on line you can search for stations on line, add them to your list from there, and request a station if you can't find it. You can even manage multiple units. I had a few stations added after I made a request. There's also a few subscription services not mentioned available, Rhapsody and Aupeo for example (it has all the services the 6v2 has - probably because they're both driven by the same software), and I've heard of people requesting others and getting them added. But there is no feature to just add whatever you want, like a new competitor to Pandora/Aupeo/etc comes along, however.

Can you tell I've had great customer service from these guy

 

[adk highlander]

Check out Vortexbox. Build it yourself and it can be close to free outside of your DAC. Have up to 5 zones all controlled with your phone or computer. Autoripping to FLAC and mp3. I have built several and they are excellent.

 

[Hobbit]

No, I'm not kidding. You asked good question and im tried to give you a solution which you are obviously not familiar with.

In short i don't care, but for sake of argument fire stick has mimo 802.11n wifi. You could plug it into your reciever and after initial set up monitor would be no longer needed. Hdmi beats coax, by far. Sideload kodi(xbmc) and you will beat vendor locking. If you even half intelligent as you seem to be, you would at least take a serious look at what i am proposing.

I'm confused on your suggestion too. I have a Roku 3, and while there is some overlap, I find it to be a total different beast than these Network Music Players. It would be nice and convenient if that wasn't true. The amount of music you can find available through these players is phenomenal. You quickly realize how limited the popular internet music services and local radio stations are. I think you'll have to try one to fully see the benefits. It would be nice if Reciva would make a Roku app

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm confused on your suggestion too. I have a Roku 3, and while there is some overlap, I find it to be a total different beast than these Network Music Players. It would be nice and convenient if that wasn't true. The amount of music you can find available through these players is phenomenal. You quickly realize how limited the popular internet music services are. I think you'll have to try one to fully see the benefits. It would be nice if Reciva would make a Roku app

Ok. How can i make it more simple to understand?
Last time ill try : firetv stick is only appears to single purpose built device, but reality is its based on modern midrange smartphone and running modified version of Android os.
This means its a general computing device capable of being whatever you need depending on running software. It's not roku, it has much more powerful insides.
Its possible running almost any android app, including Xmbc/kodi which is also dlna render if needed so.
Forget for a second about amazon music, it could play any local media as well.
It could also be controlled with xbmc remote apps like Yatse.

Op said he has a reciever. I assume it has hdmi-in port.

 

[Hobbit]

Ok. How can i make it more simple to understand?
Last time ill try : firetv stick is only appears to single purpose built device, but reality is its based on modern midrange smartphone and running modified version of Android os.
This means its a general computing device capable of being whatever you need depending on running software. It's not roku, it has much more powerful insides.
Its possible running almost any android app, including Xmbc/kodi which is also dlna render if needed so.
Forget for a second about amazon music, it could play any local media as well.
It could also be controlled with xbmc remote apps like Yatse.

Op said he has a reciever. I assume it has hdmi-in port.

Did a little more reading on it. It's interesting in that it can run droid apps directly. Sounds better than the Roku mirroring implantation (you don't need your phone). It still looks like there's a way to go. Perhaps you should try and demo a network music player. These are like a one app covers all. From my Grace Digital droid app I can go to favorites menu and switch directly between a local radio station to a pandora station to an aupeo station, to everything that's available with the player with a single touch. That's why I say a Reciva app, where all you music is tied into one simple user interface, would be nice (there's no subscription fees for this sans if you're paying for premium Pandora, Rhapsody, et al). I'm sure sometime in the future I'll ditch the player and use a future Roku, firetv, or chromecast player

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I honestly don't know why do you need Grace digital, then you have both iheartradio, pandora, spotify and all xmbc plugins available ??
I can't listed that that all.
I barely can listed to my own collection and most of the stuff I haven't heard in years

I was looking for something like Denon's CEOL piccolo but it's way to expensive and single purpose device. I didn't see the value in it.

 

[Hobbit]

I honestly don't know why do you need Grace digital, then you have both iheartradio, pandora, spotify and all xmbc plugins available ??
I can't listed that that all.
I barely can listed to my own collection and most of the stuff I haven't heard in years

I was looking for something like Denon's CEOL piccolo but it's way to expensive and single purpose device. I didn't see the value in it.

Indeed, I do have a few go-to presets that I play most of the time. But I do enjoy some non mainstream music that I can't get from the main providers (Pandora's Jazz selection is weak at best). The beauty of these network players is going to the 25 presets and easily choosing something I rarely listen to. Or choosing something from my music collection off the PC and playing any of it through nine different variations. It will even read multiple genre's. So all my jazz collection has a Jazz genre and a sub genre like swing or bop. Therefore, I can randomly listen to my whole rock collection or just rockabilly. I'm not saying you can't do this, just having everything lined up in one "app" is more conducive to doing this than having to bounce around through many apps.

It's the same on the Roku, 90% of the time I just go to Netflix. But that doesn't mean I'll get rid of it and rely only my smart tv (maybe someday!). BTW, I still miss being able to search by genre on Netfix.

I've played with a few network players. Quite a few use the same software (99% sure it's supplied by Reciva - they're too identical for it to be any other way). When I found the GD with the toslink output at a very inexpensive price about 4 years ago I bought it and loved it since. However, at the way these new devices like the Firetv are progressing the GD may eventually go by the wayside. All it would really take is for someone like Reciva to turn their product into a droid/roku/apple app Don't you think it would be great to go to your favorite spotify station, to your favorite pandora stations, radio station, or your music collection via one app with a touch of one button?

But whatever floats your boat. For me, I can't figure out why some people want to do everything through their smart phone.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I like jazz as well. On xbcm there is nice plug in for http://www.jazzradio.com
Plenty of jazz choices for me

 

[Jesper Rou]

For my curiosity can you clarify what you mean by no push?

With Push, I mean that with UPnP I can use a control device, which is any device or application with that capability, to tell the source (NAS/Media server) to stream the content to the renderer (media player).

By pull, I mean when the media player itself requests the content from the source.

Are you trying to use a single device like this to stream to all your systems? That would be nice.

No, that would require a bunch of very long cables. And I don't really need it.
My living room audio is my main concern. The Amp there is my aging AVR3805, with no network. But it has some admirable features otherwise, including bi-amping and a quite excellent sounding DAC. Unfortunately, the DAC is only 24/96, but I want my media player to support 192 anyways for future compatibility.
My home theater amp, an AVR4310, has network and is quite excellent on net-radio and streaming. It supports 24/192 FLAC out-of-the-box. No need for an additional renderer.

But, $150 vs $1000....

Thats a powerful argument. Even when I usually don't put prize very high on the priority list.
I'm now convinced that I will get a better experience (and fun) going the DIY way.

I'm not following you third comment either? What specifically are you looking for? I have at least 25 network radio stations bookmarked. When you get your radio and register it on line you can search for stations on line, add them to your list from there, and request a station if you can't find it.

I need to add personalized stations, with authentication. This is needed on subscription net radio stations.
For example, I use Digitally Imported and RadioTunes where a subscription gives me three times the quality and no ads.
But, using them requires a custom, personalized URL.
That makes it rather silly, in my eyes, that the radiostations on the device has to be added centrally.
Denon and Cambridge both solved this by having a website where you log in, register your device, and the device downloads the stations you configure there.
Other devices allow you to do this through their configuration menus, but it's rather hard using a standard remote

Can you tell I've had great customer service from these guy

Any customer service that leaves you satisfied and happy, is great

 

[Jesper Rou]

Over the weekend, I spend some time testing the Cambridge Stream Magic 6v2, Pioneer N-P01 and Yamaha CD-N301.
They are all going back to the shops.

The cambridge and Pioneer units are pretty good. Skipping the DAC's, they both sound the same and satisfy almost all my requirements.
But, none of the devices support gapless playback, even though they claim they do.

What I found was, that they only support it when using playlists. It seems they create those themself, when using the UI or a dedicated App to choose music.
But, when pushing an album through UPnP/DLnA, they all gap horribly.
With all the live and concept albums I have, this is a big deal. Think of Pink Floyd's The Wall, without gapless playback. SACRILEDGE!

So, instead of going for even more expensive units (above 1k USD), I'm now taking the advice several has given, and going DIY.
I'm considering Volumio or Kodi as software.
For hardware, the Fire Stick is an option, but it would be rather cool going for an Udoo and adding a touch screen.

What other options in micro computing are there, for audiophiles?
And... has anyone found some cool examples for custom cases for micro comps?

 

[Hobbit]

I need to add personalized stations, with authentication. This is needed on subscription net radio stations.
For example, I use Digitally Imported and RadioTunes where a subscription gives me three times the quality and no ads.
But, using them requires a custom, personalized URL.
That makes it rather silly, in my eyes, that the radiostations on the device has to be added centrally.
Denon and Cambridge both solved this by having a website where you log in, register your device, and the device downloads the stations you configure there.
Other devices allow you to do this through their configuration menus, but it's rather hard using a standard remote

Maybe I wasn't clear on the GD that they have a website (reciva) to add/control your features and and stations. Now just out of curiosity I was just reviewing the GD manual. I'm connected to my computer through a shared network(DLNA). You can setup a UPnP server and use the windows media player if you choose.

It also appears that through the website I can add personalized stations too. However, they're quick to point out a couple of thing 1) not every station will work, and there's a blurb saying something like 2) this method works different than the stations provided by or added by them in that the ones they globally provide connect the internet radio directly to the provider. I'm going to have to experiment with this feature tonight

I'm guessing the personalized stations work similar to the Cambridge system. To the best I can tell, the Cambridge is using a version of the reciva firmware (it's actually mentioned in the fine print in their NP30 manual) while the Denon is using V-tuner firmware.

*I'll add that my Integra pre uses V-tuner firmware. I prefer the Reciva functionality better.

The Dark Side of the Moon is also painful to listen too.... It seems none of the players have a simple way to play gapless

Give us an update on you DYI project.

 

[Jesper Rou]

I had been looking at micro-pc's and tentatively decided I wanted a Udoo quad.
But, then I realised that my aging AVR3805 dosn't have any HDMI inputs.

Going through the devices again, I found that almost none of them offer Coaxial SPDIF out.
The CuBox-I has an optical out, but that's not super interesting.
And USB is not interesting either. Most external DAC's allow this, but not my receiver.

The main software solution I have been looking at, is Volumio.
Kodi/XBMC is less interesting, mainly because it's way too big and feature ladden for my "audio only/UPnP" requirements. And I have a feeling it focuses on video.

Are there any options for bit-perfect convertions from HDMI to SPDIF? The only ones I found, was more expensive than the complete Udoo setup.
There seems to be an option for adding SPDID Coax out to Udoo, but it requires some hardware hacking that I'm not at all equipped to do.

The devices I looked at: Udoo Quad, Cubox-I4Pro, Raspberry Pi B+, Beagleboard Black, Cubitruck