My mistakes so far...$$$

[LGM]

Hello, first post on here and complete noob to this world
Ill be doing a huge renovation of my basement to create a huge rec room and i intend to have a home theatre setup as well. I have already begun purchasing pieces of my future theatre. So far i have a:
Projector: Epson Powerlite Home 2030 750$
AVR: Denon S700w 300$
Speakers: Bergmann 6.1 Home Theatre System 180$ on kijiji(its like ebay)

MISTAKE #1- Bergmann 6.1 Home Theatre System, never heard of it you say? as far as i can tell this is a scam. I cant find any actual product with this name. The only thing you find is on sites like ebay, kijiji, selling a brand new still in the box system(funny everyone has left it in the box...). Upon further research it seems i am a victim of a "white van scam", i saw a 180$ price tag and my greed took over. I didnt even know that was a term. Please warn other people of this scam. I dont even know what speakers I have in that box? and i dont really want to plug them into anything. so im out 180$, and i wont sell them to some poor undeserving sucker

MISTAKE #2- 6.1, so it seems i missed the message, i guess 6.1 never really took off and you either go 5.1 or 7.1

MISTAKE? #3- BUYING THE RECEIVER WITHOUT SPEAKERS?, not sure if this qualifies as a mistake but I am having trouble finding a good deal on speakers without a receiver. Very few retailers sell just the "home speaker package". Options are limited with 5.1, and i can barely find anything with 7.1. Do i proceed to buy every speaker separately? This seems very costly. is getting a full avr plus speaker package the only way to get a good deal on speakers? I would prefer a 7.1, and i dont want to spend over 300$...

MISTAKE #4- INSATIABLE GREED AND HEDONISM

MISTAKE #5- LACK OF RESEARCH

Any tips on what i do for speakers? Is there such thing as a starter quality set for 7.1? What to look for with projector screens? Ceiling mounts? Any help will be appreciated, started from the bottom and im still definitely not here

Thank you

 

[LGM]

anyone...

 

[zieglj01]

I would prefer a 7.1, and i dont want to spend over 300$...

MISTAKE #4- INSATIABLE GREED AND HEDONISM

Any tips on what i do for speakers?
Thank you

Being in Canada and $300 for speakers is a tough one.

A lot of people seem to like Fluance
http://www.amazon.ca/AVHTB-Surround-including-Three-way-Floorstanding/dp/B00064JWSG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420223549&sr=1-1&keywords=home theater system

Other than that - sorry, not much to say or recommend.

 

[anamorphic96]

Being this is a large room you really need a bigger budget for speakers 300 will not cut it. You could look at the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers which might get you under budget for the front stage but you will still need surround speakers and a subwoofer. A larger subwoofer as well if you want any impact. You should really reconsider 7.1 as it has never really taken off as well. 5.1 is the best way to go with limited funds and can sound very impressive when setup correctly.

 

[herbu]

MISTAKE #5- LACK OF RESEARCH

Correct this mistake before spending any more money.
Accept that your expectations should be very low for a budget of $300.
Is it too late to return the projector? I would put that $750 into speakers and just start with a plain used TV. You can do a lot better with a 5.1 system for $1k than you can for $300. AND you would have a nice system for music in your rec room.

 

[LGM]

Thank you guys. This is the kind of advice i need! What i still don't understand though is when buying a home theatre in a box, you can get a receiver + 7.1 for 650$(i assume the avr is the majority of that price), but if you get the receiver alone you cant find speakers for that seemingly low price? are HTIB speakers cheap quality then?

And if i were to get a 5.1 system, to upgrade(if possible), does that mean i simply need to buy two more generic speakers? Do they need to be specialized 7.1 rear speakers or any generic speaker works. you just plug it into the right channel? Basically I'm not really understanding what the difference between the centre speaker and left front speaker is for example.

If noone else replies to this thread i do appreciate the responses above. Already know more than i did before!

 

[zieglj01]

Basically I'm not really understanding what the difference between the centre speaker and left front speaker is for example.

Some reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_channel

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/ht_speakers.html?g=12100

 

[LGM]

second article was very informative, thank you ziegl

 

[herbu]

are HTIB speakers cheap quality then?

In general, yes. Some new comers think the receiver is the most critical part of their system. Wrong. Technology is to the point that most of the least expensive receivers can sound as good as most of the most expensive. Higher price gets you more power and more features.

One of the features higher price gets you is more amplified channels, like 7.1 or 9.1 instead of 5.1. The thing anamorphic96 is telling you is that when cost is a consideration, the extra channels for 7.1 are not worth it.

Most movies are mastered in 5.1.
In 5.1 systems, the side surrounds get mainly sound effect stuff, like doors opening, floors creaking, etc. By FAR, most of the sound still comes from your front Left/Center/Right.
In a 7.1 system, the rear surrounds get even less than the sides.

For a budget system, most people here will recommend:
get a basic 5.1 receiver, (no more than ~25% of your total budget)
get the best Front Left/Right you can afford
get the best Subwoofer you can afford
add a good Center when you can
add inexpensive L/R Surrounds when you can

HTIB packages will likely give you a better receiver than you need because it's easy to advertise features/specs of a receiver. They add inexpensive speakers, spending more on the surrounds than is necessary. They add an inexpensive sub that is easily bested in the marketplace. In other words, the priorities in a HTIB are not the same as the priorities agreed upon by most audiophiles.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you guys. This is the kind of advice i need! What i still don't understand though is when buying a home theatre in a box, you can get a receiver + 7.1 for 650$(i assume the avr is the majority of that price), but if you get the receiver alone you cant find speakers for that seemingly low price? are HTIB speakers cheap quality then?

And if i were to get a 5.1 system, to upgrade(if possible), does that mean i simply need to buy two more generic speakers? Do they need to be specialized 7.1 rear speakers or any generic speaker works. you just plug it into the right channel? Basically I'm not really understanding what the difference between the centre speaker and left front speaker is for example.

If noone else replies to this thread i do appreciate the responses above. Already know more than i did before!

Yes, they are junk. In fact what you are discovering is that the most expensive purchases are junk. You need to up your budget by a factor of 10 at least.

For your budget you just buy a decent sound bar and be done with it. Trying to do what you want on your budget will get your further behind.

 

[LGM]

very good post herbu. A factor of 10 TLS?!?!?!?

ok ill admit the 300$ price was a bit unrealistic, I thought it was possible because i was judging the price of a HTIB(receiver price minus total) to get 300$. There are still a lot of key decisions i need to make before going forward. Im going to create a 5.1 vs 7.1 thread. Im surprised i cant find what i would think to be a popular topic. MOderators(does this site have those?), please delete the new thread if there is one already made(and give me the link). I dont want to be the noob that starts a new thread on every possible thing

 

[TLS Guy]

very good post herbu. A factor of 10 TLS?!?!?!?

ok ill admit the 300$ price was a bit unrealistic, I thought it was possible because i was judging the price of a HTIB(receiver price minus total) to get 300$. There are still a lot of key decisions i need to make before going forward. Im going to create a 5.1 vs 7.1 thread. Im surprised i cant find what i would think to be a popular topic. MOderators(does this site have those?), please delete the new thread if there is one already made(and give me the link). I dont want to be the noob that starts a new thread on every possible thing

Yes, a factor of 10. If you search, this forum is awash, in what junk can I buy for $x threads? Yes, awash.

As I keep saying, buying junk is very expensive and there are boat loads of it out there.

My advice to you is to put a good two channel system together. Your mistake is trying to do it it all at once, by piling junk on junk.

Forget the sub, center and surrounds for now. Add those as funds permit.

I probably spend less per year on equipment than most on this forum. However I have been buying gear for fifty years. I have got rid of little. I have equipment I bought over 50 years ago still giving good service.

On your route you will never get ahead, as you will be constantly replacing what is broken, or you can't wait to see the back of.

 

[herbu]

My advice to you is to put a good two channel system together.
Forget the sub, center and surrounds for now. Add those as funds permit.

LGM, I agree with this. Afraid you'll be missing out while you live w/ 2 channels and save for the rest? I doubt it.

I have over $15k in my 7.2 system. I listen to music in 2 channel stereo, and lately have started watching TV in 2 channel stereo. All the other speakers sit idle except for bluray movies. Why? I recently replaced my Front Left/Right speakers. The new ones sound so good with music that I don't need/use my subwoofers. And TV sends the vast majority of sound to the Center speaker. My current Center cost ~$1k. But I found my new L/Rs sound so much better than my Center, I've prefer Stereo, (without the Center), for TV. (2 channel Stereo sends everything that would have gone to the Center, to the L/R. It still sounds like it's coming from the center.)

So the priorities I listed still stand. With very limited funds, and knowledge, get a basic 5.1 receiver and the 2 best L/R speakers you can afford. Period. Enjoy. While you save for your next purchase, (a sub), continue to read and learn.

 

[prehberg]

If its a choice I would suggest going 9.2 as opposed to 5.1 or 7.1 or 7.2. I am currently running a Sony 7.1 reciever but the room (spkrs) is set up for 9.2. By that I mean, I've already set up a pair of speakers for front "height" Its not an audiophile system but I have the Sony 7.1 reciever, a pair of bi wired 4 way Acoustic Profile (3 way speakers with a built in 8"sub which I uprgraded ) front towers. subs powered by 2 mono blocked Carver amps (200 watts each. Matching 2 way centre (2 5.25" woofers, 1" soft dome tweeter)speaker, matching front height speakers are 2 way (6" with 1" JBL titanium tweeters, i swapped out the stock tweets) 2 Axiom tri-axial surrounds and a pair of 5.25 2 way speakers for surround back and finally 2 1000 watt Yamaha 10" servo subs. Buy the reciever new if you can afford it, or check ebay always great deals on 7.1 or 2 and 9.2 recievers there. Scour Kijiji and pawn shops for your speakers Dont settle for 5.1 no matter what anybody says. People are right most movies are mastered in 5.1, but I've had 5.1 and the movie Fury sounds so much better now with the 7.1 reciever and speaker set up I have. Also if you can set up your theatre on the main floor I would suggest you do. Basements have a tendency to suck up sub bass like a sponge. Pretty dificult to excite a poured concrete floor. Part of the experience at least for me is the sensation you get when the room shudders. With "Fury" when the 4 shermans tanks light it up in the field, you "feel" like your there' Its not deafing volume wise, but you feel every cannon shot because the room is "movin". Another good example is Jurassic Park. The T-Rex scene with the plastic water cup in the suv. With a main floor install you can make a cup of water react just like in the movie. Nearly impossible to do in a basement set up without mind numbing volume levels. Send 400 or 500$ on the reciever, and search around for speakers. I took 2 years to accumulate every thing. Only thing holding me back from 9.2 is the wife, lol. And like I said go kijiji or pawn shops for speakers. I couldve pick up a pair of Klipsh speakers similar to rp 260f for 55$. Guy had to get rid of them (wife said so) mine wouldnt let me buy them said I have enough speakers. You can get greast deals if your patient and look around.

 

[Don G.]

Lots of good advice in this thread. You are not going to be happy with anything more than a 2 channel system with your budget. Please take the time to research and listen to speakers and get the best you can afford.

One possibility, if you can find a set of Mirage Nano-Sats on Ebay, those are actually very good speakers for HT use. I had a 5.1 system with those and a good sub and it actually sounded very good. I have since moved back to a 2 channel system because I wanted a better music system, but those Nano-Sats are easy to drive and produce amazing sound for the size. They also have a very high WAF.

Just a thought.

Edit, there happens to be a used set of 5 on Amazon for about $350. You won't find anything close to that quality for that price I don't think. I don't know if others here have any experience with those speakers, but they sure sound good to me. They used to carry them in the Magnolia room at Best Buy. They are not audiophile quality, but you won't get anything that is for $300.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A year old message with nothing back from OP since Jan 2015.