Upgrading from the Epson 8350: Torn between the Sony HW40ES and Epson 5030ub

ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
*cross posted on another forum*

Hey, guys. I've decided to upgrade my PJ from the Epson 8350 I currently have. I do believe the 8350 is one of the greatest budget PJs available, and at the time of purchase, it was the best way for me to maximize my dollar. But I've since gotten some wiggle room and decided to upgrade. What I'm looking for with the upgrade is simply better blacks and better color in general. To be honest, I've got a plasma downstairs in my living room that I'd love to be able to match the performance of in regards to color, color depth, and black levels (contrast and shadow). I've been doing a lot of reading here and elsewhere and have narrowed my options essentially down to the following two PJs:
  1. Epson 5030UB
  2. Sony VPL-HW40ES

The reviews here and elsewhere on these seem to be head to head. The Sony is said to have better color out of the box, while I've read the Epson has better blacks. But, practically speaking, the reviews indicate the differences in these regards isn't very wide. The only thing that has caught my attention is the Sony is said to have a much quieter fan; and the 8350 fan kind of annoys me from time to time (ie; quiet scenes or when I want to listen to the stereo but have the PJ on). One of the main reviews I found comparing the two summed it up with this:
The bottom line is this: the Epson 5030UB is an excellent projector, and the HW40ES cannot match its placement flexibility or deep black levels in the darkest scenes. However, in situations where the additional zoom or lens shift of the 5030UB are not needed, the HW40ES has a brighter picture with excellent detail and less digital noise that is also higher in contrast in most scenes. A quieter fan also makes the HW40ES the go-to choice for smaller rooms.
So, that leaves me with price.... a 5030UB-refurb can be purchased for $1699, while a Sony HW40ES can be purchased from ebay for about $1900-2000 (realizing this may not be fully authorized purchase). So, in the same regard as performance... these two are fairly even price wise.

The requirements/room info:
  • The room is upstairs in a blacked out, dedicated "theater room". I can control overhead lighting.
  • Room dimensions are approximately 17ft wide, 26ft long, 8ft tall.
  • Current screen size is 110" diagonal; I will likely stay with this size.
  • I will be using an acoustically transparent screen (have yet to fully decide which one yet), which will be on a full baffle wall.
  • The actual distance from the fixed, ceiling-mounted PJ to the front wall/screen will be in the ballpark of 13 feet.
  • The distance from the wall to first row seating is approximately 12 feet.
  • PJ will be mounted overhead, approximately 1 foot behind the front row.
  • I will be using two rows of seating; the back row on a riser.
  • As for 3D, it's not the #1 priority, but we will be using that feature now and again
  • Typical viewing content is split between HD video and HD TV


With all that info, can you guys provide some guidance on which direction you'd go here? Price wise, the 5030UB saves me a few hundred bucks and has a warranty. I think my only real concern about the 5030ub at this point is fan noise. Otherwise, I would have already ordered it. If needed, I can try to order both from Crutchfield and compare them directly, but that's a lot of money on my CC that I'd rather not tie up.

Thanks in advance,
Erin
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
That's pretty much where I'm at with it. I think it's ultimately the flip of a coin. Was just curious if anyone here might have some real-world input on a comparison.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
While I do believe that both provide excellent image quality, I would take the Sony in a second.

Long term reliability of the Epson products has proven to be very poor with lamp life which bugs me (not a deal breaker). But, I hate dynamic irises. I see them work. I always have. One second you have really good black levels, the next, they black levels are raised so that the whites pop more. So, I turn off DI features and guess what? The Epson can't keep up with the Sony on black levels at that point.

Sony also is said to use lensing which is extremely good, so you get a really sharp image with the Sony which I like.

Then you have the noise level and out of the box colors.

Put it all together and I lean towards the Sony pretty heavily.

I've installed Epson's and Panasonic projectors over the years, and my favorite projectors have been JVCs. But, I am doing my first 40ES installation in a couple of weeks and I have seen it. It looks great. I'm planning on finding some time this weekend to fire it up and head-to-head it against my W1070 to see how it looks. No 5030 to test it against, but I will put my opinion out there.
 
picture_shooter

picture_shooter

Full Audioholic
The Sony is what I recently got as my Xmas gift. I can tell you I been looking hard at Epson, but my past experience with the 705HD and 8700ub, they are just too loud (fan noise).
I decided even though Epson has a good refurb exchange warranty, I just don't want to deal with it or getting a refurb unit if the Epson I purchased ever had an issue (its just not right).
Now for the Sony, simply put *Amazing* projector and is a great light cannon and even calibration out of the box is stunning, but I did calibrate already at reference setting. If it was me, I would not hiccup and go w/ Sony for the win!!
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
While I do believe that both provide excellent image quality, I would take the Sony in a second.

Long term reliability of the Epson products has proven to be very poor with lamp life which bugs me (not a deal breaker). But, I hate dynamic irises. I see them work. I always have. One second you have really good black levels, the next, they black levels are raised so that the whites pop more. So, I turn off DI features and guess what? The Epson can't keep up with the Sony on black levels at that point.

Sony also is said to use lensing which is extremely good, so you get a really sharp image with the Sony which I like.

Then you have the noise level and out of the box colors.

Put it all together and I lean towards the Sony pretty heavily.

I've installed Epson's and Panasonic projectors over the years, and my favorite projectors have been JVCs. But, I am doing my first 40ES installation in a couple of weeks and I have seen it. It looks great. I'm planning on finding some time this weekend to fire it up and head-to-head it against my W1070 to see how it looks. No 5030 to test it against, but I will put my opinion out there.
I have had some issues with flicker in the lamps, but never an issue with lamp life. I do think the fine tuning on the lens shift is lacking on the 8350. I know Epson customer service has been first rate too. To me Sony is an unknown quantity in this area. Your recommendation would have me going for the Sony, but I do wonder if you have a long term track record with these ES projectors enough to confirm the quality.
 
picture_shooter

picture_shooter

Full Audioholic
I have had some issues with flicker in the lamps, but never an issue with lamp life. I do think the fine tuning on the lens shift is lacking on the 8350. I know Epson customer service has been first rate too. To me Sony is an unknown quantity in this area. Your recommendation would have me going for the Sony, but I do wonder if you have a long term track record with these ES projectors enough to confirm the quality.

I can't comment how Sony CS is, but with the previous Sony owners I have not really seen any complaints and any of them that was not resolved. All I know is the Sony has a 3 year warranty which surpasses the Epson 2 years / refurb exchange warranty (refurb). Epson 5030ub has had great reviews from Art Feierman over at Projectorreview.com. As I read a lot of his reviews over the past, he's defiantly a fan of 3LCD / Epson guy. Not saying his reviews are not fair, but you know how he praises much about Epson and that is a good thing for Epson, but from a owner it seems most when they get their refurb exchanged units it then gets sold on Ebay , craigslist or forums. Again, not saying Epson is bad, as I did buy my 8700ub from VisualApex as a refurb unit it was a good PJ... but I never thought of it as a great projector as it was raved about overall. If it was me flip a coin and go with that or better yet, order both and your eyes will be the final verdict.

I am all about QC (quality control) and if something comes out and its prone to issues I just think of that company as a ticking time bomb. As a matter a fact, I own a Onkyo TX-SR809 which was a raved about AV receiver, then for months goes down the road and it seems plenty of owners of this receiver complained about the HDMI board has major issues. I took the gamble and got one 2nd hand and till this day its been flawless. Not sure if I think of it as a great AV receiver, but it gets the job done and so far its been dependable. So with that being said, I hope my Sony will do the same regardless of how many reports if there will be prone issues when the time goes by.
 
picture_shooter

picture_shooter

Full Audioholic

I got mine for the same price that is on Ebay from a local home audio dealer in town. Just make sure if you get it verify if its an dealer that Sony will warranty it if there is any future issues with it. Good luck
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
Hey, fellas. Thanks for the replies. :)

I got in touch with a dealer on AVS forum who said if I can wait, he can get a BNIB fully authorized HW40ES for a great price (better than eBay; not posting it in public). I didn't even flinch... I signed up for one. I'm hoping to have it in my hands in the next couple weeks.

I'm definitely looking forward to the upgrade. The 8350 is great in it's own right but the color and black/shadow levels leave me wanting more. And the fan is just annoying. I understand tolerance is subjective, but from day one the 8350's loud fan has bothered me. I'll definitely be glad not to hear that racket above my head.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I have had some issues with flicker in the lamps, but never an issue with lamp life. I do think the fine tuning on the lens shift is lacking on the 8350. I know Epson customer service has been first rate too. To me Sony is an unknown quantity in this area. Your recommendation would have me going for the Sony, but I do wonder if you have a long term track record with these ES projectors enough to confirm the quality.
I don't have extensive use of the Sony projectors. I have run into a few client's who have had them over the years and they certainly tend to be built in similar fashion to other higher-end Sony products, which I consider to be better than most. Still, I have installed an older W5000 projector from BenQ, and it had the worst build quality I've ever seen, yet the W1070 from BenQ is phenomenally reliable.

The client's I've spoken to about their ES models have had good reliability, and nothing about Sony projectors has ever really jumped out to be out of the norm.

This is where Epson differs. It could be in part to their much higher market saturation on lower-end models, but they have reports which Panasonic did not have. So, they had poor cooling, and perhaps slightly higher light output lamps that were blowing up far to often. I also had an issue with their lens shift drifting mechanically because it didn't lock properly in place.

My real experience has been with JVC projectors. You don't hear about color issues with LCoS chips or with build quality issues, or much else. They just are great projectors which keep going and going. The contrast from JVC is well beyond what the Epson or Sony models are hitting with really inky blacks. But, JVC and Sony are different companies. Yet, both put a lot of R&D into developing their LCoS products and really started them at the high end. These aren't products which were cheap from the start. They began expensive, and then dropped in price slowly.

A top down philosophy from top tier companies tends to deliver higher reliability from what I have seen over the years, and that's where the HW40ES fits in. A slightly modified HW55ES, not a 'whole new model'. So, I believe in what Sony is delivering here.

I imagine the better Epson models (5030) are just really rock solid at this point, and much like most of the other models out there, it's hard to go wrong. There are just a ton of really good projectors out there.

But, as I said. I won't use the DI, and I really have liked what I have seen from LCoS over the years. I like that the Sony will be nearly dead silent, and it really does look great.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Hey, fellas. Thanks for the replies. :)

I got in touch with a dealer on AVS forum who said if I can wait, he can get a BNIB fully authorized HW40ES for a great price (better than eBay; not posting it in public). I didn't even flinch... I signed up for one. I'm hoping to have it in my hands in the next couple weeks.

I'm definitely looking forward to the upgrade. The 8350 is great in it's own right but the color and black/shadow levels leave me wanting more. And the fan is just annoying. I understand tolerance is subjective, but from day one the 8350's loud fan has bothered me. I'll definitely be glad not to hear that racket above my head.
I never notice the fan on mine, but certainly would love to upgrade. I see a screen being the next upgrade though.
 
ErinH

ErinH

Audioholic General
I'm an audio nut first and foremost. Rattles, and external noise in systems always bothers me to an irrational extent. Once I hear something I can never ignore it. To a fault.
 

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