SVS SB-1000; How much of a gain?

[onlyme]

Hello!

Looking at upgrading my 2.1 channel sub, to an SVS SB-1000. I chose that particular model due to size limitations. The current sub is a Klipsch RW-10d, and a hair to big to be comfortable where it's placed. Also, I'm not overly impressed with the output of the Klipsch, the lower couple of octaves just don't exist in my room. The mains are smallish Klispch towers with three 5 1/4" midbasses (WF-35s), and are not much help in the bass department.

I'm not exactly certain the cu. ft. of the room, but my theatre setup is in the same space, oriented 90 degrees out. It took two RW-12ds to be happy with the bass for movies in here. Obviously, music can a bit less demanding. Those are placed agaist the front wall, 1/4 width in from the corners, and calibrated as per the awesome recommedations on this site.

Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is this: Can I get the best of both worlds? Can I really get a smaller size AND better sound? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe there is a different sub available that would work better for my desires?

Thanks in advance for your advise.

 

[Sheep]

Hello!

Looking at upgrading my 2.1 channel sub, to an SVS SB-1000. I chose that particular model due to size limitations. The current sub is a Klipsch RW-10d, and a hair to big to be comfortable where it's placed. Also, I'm not overly impressed with the output of the Klipsch, the lower couple of octaves just don't exist in my room. The mains are smallish Klispch towers with three 5 1/4" midbasses (WF-35s), and are not much help in the bass department.

I'm not exactly certain the cu. ft. of the room, but my theatre setup is in the same space, oriented 90 degrees out. It took two RW-12ds to be happy with the bass for movies in here. Obviously, music can a bit less demanding. Those are placed agaist the front wall, 1/4 width in from the corners, and calibrated as per the awesome recommedations on this site.

Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is this: Can I get the best of both worlds? Can I really get a smaller size AND better sound? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe there is a different sub available that would work better for my desires?

Thanks in advance for your advise.

I'm not 100% sure but you could just have really bad room placement. In my new setup, the subwofoer in the front corner had zero low bass output. moved to the rear wall and there is more. Then, I moved it to the middle of the side wall and I have lots of bass now. It's slightly localizable but I dropped my mains to 60Hz cross over and it's pretty good. Obviously a second subwoofer is the easiest way to even things out, but putting them in the front corners usually isn't the best for bass uniformity. I would experiment with placement, then when you have the right spot, you can focus on the right subwoofer.

SheepStar

 

[onlyme]

Sorry, I should have mentioned placement. The sub is dead centered between the mains and pushed back near the wall, and calibrated. That is pretty much the only place that works for the 2.1 system, space wise. This systen is run off a Denon AVR-2808ci, with audyssey and bass management properly tweaked.

 

[j_garcia]

Dead center on the wall in the room also? That will usually result in room modes toward the center IMO, and depending on the room and seating position relative to the sub, it could be a bad option. If you move around the room does the bass sound better near the walls than the seating position?

 

[onlyme]

Not, not dead center, maybe 35%.

 

[j_garcia]

1/3 to either side is often a good spot, but that will vary based on the room size/shape and seating position.

 

[Sheep]

Sorry, I should have mentioned placement. The sub is dead centered between the mains and pushed back near the wall, and calibrated. That is pretty much the only place that works for the 2.1 system, space wise. This systen is run off a Denon AVR-2808ci, with audyssey and bass management properly tweaked.

Where are you sitting? Dead center usually isn't very good for gain. Have you tried rearranging the room to make other subwoofer placments possible? Not always what people want to do, but you'd be surprised how a rearrangement can fix a lot of issues.

SheepStar

 

[onlyme]

I'm sitting directly opposite the sub. I have both 7.2 and 2.1 systems in one combined room. 7.2 along the short wall, 2.1 along the long. Seaing is a "L", with the couch facing the 7.2, and the loveseat facing the 2.1. Rearranging would be bordeline impossible due to the 7.2 surrounds being in-ceiling.

 

[Sheep]

Hm, couldn't you run a signal to the other subwoofers from the Home Theater and use them for the bass in the 2.1? A y-splitter would make that really simply and they might have better bass for the music system.

SheepStar

 

[onlyme]

Hm, couldn't you run a signal to the other subwoofers from the Home Theater and use them for the bass in the 2.1? A y-splitter would make that really simply and they might have better bass for the music system.

SheepStar

I could try that, but was trying to avoid it. The 7.2 subs are against the wall to the left of the 2.1 seating position. I get bass is supposed to be omnidirectional, but it seems wierd (in my head at least) to have two subs on the left of a stereo soundstage, and nothing on the right. I'll try running a cable over, seeing what it sounds like, and reporting back my findings.

 

[Sheep]

I could try that, but was trying to avoid it. The 7.2 subs are against the wall to the left of the 2.1 seating position. I get bass is supposed to be omnidirectional, but it seems wierd (in my head at least) to have two subs on the left of a stereo soundstage, and nothing on the right. I'll try running a cable over, seeing what it sounds like, and reporting back my findings.

Let us know!

SheepStar

 

[onlyme]

Will do. Thanks for your time and advice!

 

[Suphawut]

re-run the Audyssey with n without the sub.

 

[onlyme]

Just got done re-tweaking things, and I have a confession to make…

I was CERTAIN that I could not be happy with a 2 channel music only system, where the subs weren't 'inline' with the mains. Even with the time previously spent on getting them properly sorted out in the room for the HT system, I could not imagine they could be seamless with a system that was oriented 90 degrees out, a system where the subs would be closer to me than the mains.

I was wrong.

I swapped the cables around, and fired it up. I messed with gain a bit, played some songs, and was "meh" about the whole thing. It just wasn't coherent. With a proper gain on the subs, there was too much bass coming from the left side. Turn the subs down to where it was more blended, and it was like they weren't on.

Then I gave up, pulled out the mic, did a quick level set, and ran Audyssey. WOW… Just wow. The system is balanced, smooth, tight, focused, etc., etc., etc. The delay and phase calculations Audyssey applies did the trick. All I've done is bump the sub out level on the Denon down a half db, and I am HAPPY! Is it perfect? No. On the really deep sections of certain songs, you can tell it's biased to the left. But over all I'd say 96-97% of the bass I'm hearing/feeling is centered, you might even say 'tied' to the mains. I'm so satisfied, I pulled the sub I was using out of the room all together. Incredible.

You guys are the best. Not only have I saved money by not doing an upgrade that may never have worked, but I now have an extra sub to use elsewhere (or sell).

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Suphawut]

Just got done re-tweaking things, and I have a confession to make…

I was CERTAIN that I could not be happy with a 2 channel music only system, where the subs weren't 'inline' with the mains. Even with the time previously spent on getting them properly sorted out in the room for the HT system, I could not imagine they could be seamless with a system that was oriented 90 degrees out, a system where the subs would be closer to me than the mains.

I was wrong.

I swapped the cables around, and fired it up. I messed with gain a bit, played some songs, and was "meh" about the whole thing. It just wasn't coherent. With a proper gain on the subs, there was too much bass coming from the left side. Turn the subs down to where it was more blended, and it was like they weren't on.

Then I gave up, pulled out the mic, did a quick level set, and ran Audyssey. WOW… Just wow. The system is balanced, smooth, tight, focused, etc., etc., etc. The delay and phase calculations Audyssey applies did the trick. All I've done is bump the sub out level on the Denon down a half db, and I am HAPPY! Is it perfect? No. On the really deep sections of certain songs, you can tell it's biased to the left. But over all I'd say 96-97% of the bass I'm hearing/feeling is centered, you might even say 'tied' to the mains. I'm so satisfied, I pulled the sub I was using out of the room all together. Incredible.

You guys are the best. Not only have I saved money by not doing an upgrade that may never have worked, but I now have an extra sub to use elsewhere (or sell).

THANK YOU!!!

sometimes desperate measures, u have to "cheat" the Audyssey. Try hands on calibrating Anthem without using ARC. you will know what all this calibration thing is all about.
cheers.

 

[Sheep]

Just got done re-tweaking things, and I have a confession to make…

I was CERTAIN that I could not be happy with a 2 channel music only system, where the subs weren't 'inline' with the mains. Even with the time previously spent on getting them properly sorted out in the room for the HT system, I could not imagine they could be seamless with a system that was oriented 90 degrees out, a system where the subs would be closer to me than the mains.

I was wrong.

I swapped the cables around, and fired it up. I messed with gain a bit, played some songs, and was "meh" about the whole thing. It just wasn't coherent. With a proper gain on the subs, there was too much bass coming from the left side. Turn the subs down to where it was more blended, and it was like they weren't on.

Then I gave up, pulled out the mic, did a quick level set, and ran Audyssey. WOW… Just wow. The system is balanced, smooth, tight, focused, etc., etc., etc. The delay and phase calculations Audyssey applies did the trick. All I've done is bump the sub out level on the Denon down a half db, and I am HAPPY! Is it perfect? No. On the really deep sections of certain songs, you can tell it's biased to the left. But over all I'd say 96-97% of the bass I'm hearing/feeling is centered, you might even say 'tied' to the mains. I'm so satisfied, I pulled the sub I was using out of the room all together. Incredible.

You guys are the best. Not only have I saved money by not doing an upgrade that may never have worked, but I now have an extra sub to use elsewhere (or sell).

THANK YOU!!!

I was in the same boat, my new setup has the seating close to the middle of the room, and the bass suckout is very noticeable. Eventually the place that worked best was right beside the couch. I ended up dropping my X-over to 60Hz (speakers can handle that) and the localization is mostly gone. Low end came back as well as tactile sensation. A second subwoofer will fix my problem, and I have the room. I can understand the frustration with not having the flexibility of placement or seating options and relying on calibration to get the most out of your setup. A variable phase is a life saver for these setups. Glad things worked out!

SheepStar