New Receiver?

[speakerman39]

Call them back and tell them that there is a demo unit for $270 on AMAZON. See if they could match that. Always give them a target to match.

Also a LIKE-NEW demo unit for $305 on AMAZON.

And tell them shipping from the Amazon dealers is only about $13!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM2KS/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1414590483&sr=8-1&keywords=denon x2000&condition=used

Okay I just got off the phone with Harold at Electronics Expo and he said that $502 shipped is the BEST they can do regardless of what anyone else is charging. Of course, this is a brand new unit factory sealed. At least, we tried. Was hoping for a much better price. However, ebay sent me a link today showing the AVR-4000x for only $769 and free shipping! Not a bad deal, but it is out of my price range. Would love to have that receiver. So, if any of YOU are looking for a deal on the X4000 that is really a good price. Thanks for your link by the way.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[GIEGAR]

.... If the E-400 had MultEQ XT, then it would surely be a no brainer for me. So, in a small apartment do any of YOU feel like the MultEQ would suffice w/o giving up too much? Or, perhaps the MultEQ XT really would make that much of a difference? I am sure MCACC would also do a really good job. My head is spinning......LOL!!!!

Phil if it helps in your decision, I reckon MultEQ XT actually comes into it's own in a smaller room. Let me explain...

The smaller the room, the higher in frequency (shorter in wavelength) the room modes start and they also shift quickly to the frequencies normally handled by the satellite channels. For example in a 15'L x 12'W x 8'H room, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd order axial room modes are at 37Hz, 47Hz, 71Hz, 75Hz, 94Hz, 112Hz, 141Hz (x 2) and 212Hz. Five of the first nine modal frequencies are in the range normally handled by the satellite channels. So based on that bit of acoustic theory, the increased filter resolution XT devotes to the satellite channels (16x vs 2x for plain MultEQ) is actually more important for smaller rooms.

Whilst there's heaps more happening in a room's response than theoretical axial room modes, I hope this puts your mind at rest that MultEQ XT will certainly be worthwhile, and in particular for a smaller room.

Jump on a new or refurb'd X2000!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Or buy LIKE-NEW Denon X2000 from an authorized dealer on Amazon for $305, instead of buying refurbished.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM2KS/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1414677835&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+x2000&condition=used

Or LIKE-NEW Denon X3000 for $439 delivered from an authorized dealer on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM12W/ref=sr_1_3_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1414677835&sr=8-3&keywords=denon+x2000&condition=used

 

[speakerman39]

Phil if it helps in your decision, I reckon MultEQ XT actually comes into it's own in a smaller room. Let me explain...

The smaller the room, the higher in frequency (shorter in wavelength) the room modes start and they also shift quickly to the frequencies normally handled by the satellite channels. For example in a 15'L x 12'W x 8'H room, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd order axial room modes are at 37Hz, 47Hz, 71Hz, 75Hz, 94Hz, 112Hz, 141Hz (x 2) and 212Hz. Five of the first nine modal frequencies are in the range normally handled by the satellite channels. So based on that bit of acoustic theory, the increased filter resolution XT devotes to the satellite channels (16x vs 2x for plain MultEQ) is actually more important for smaller rooms.

Whilst there's heaps more happening in a room's response than theoretical axial room modes, I hope this puts your mind at rest that MultEQ XT will certainly be worthwhile, and in particular for a smaller room.

Jump on a new or refurb'd X2000!

Wow man! How on earth do YOU know these things? Thought I knew a lot about receivers, but YOU just proved me wrong......LOL!!!!!!! No really, YOU bring up some very interesting points. I am actually learning something here. BTW, I read some very bad things regarding the Pioneer VSX-1123 in terms of quality control. That being said, I have just about but ALL ruled it out. As such, that leaves me with the Denon AVR-X2000. However, I am also now taking a closer look into the Onkyo TX-NR727 for only $500 with free S&H. There is also the Onkyo TX-NR828 for $600 with free S&H. There is no doubt the NR828 is the MUCH better deal. Never owned a receiver of that caliber. So, I am HIGHLY considering it. Just read about the hdmi board probelms with them. That is certainly something I must consider as to whether or not to take a chance on it. What are YOUR thoughts regarding Onkyo? Just curious is all. Thanks for your help. It is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Or buy LIKE-NEW Denon X2000 from an authorized dealer on Amazon for $305, instead of buying refurbished.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM2KS/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1414677835&sr=8-1&keywords=denon x2000&condition=used

Or LIKE-NEW Denon X3000 for $439 delivered from an authorized dealer on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CALM12W/ref=sr_1_3_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1414677835&sr=8-3&keywords=denon x2000&condition=used

Yeah, it looks like I am down to the X2000 or possible the X3000. However, I am also taking a much closer look at the Onkyo NR727/828. Crutchfield is offering killer deals on both of them right now. The NR828 is the much better deal. But, been reading about an hdmi board issues due to poor quality control. So, I am getting closer or I may just wait a bit longer before pulling the trigger. The X4000 can now be had for $769 with free shipping! Maybe it will come down even more. Would love the own the X4000.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, it looks like I am down to the X2000 or possible the X3000. However, I am also taking a much closer look at the Onkyo NR727/828. Crutchfield is offering killer deals on both of them right now. The NR828 is the much better deal. But, been reading about an hdmi board issues due to poor quality control. So, I am getting closer or I may just wait a bit longer before pulling the trigger. The X4000 can now be had for $769 with free shipping! Maybe it will come down even more. Would love the own the X4000.

Cheers,

Phil

I would not buy the X4000 until it is down to $650 or less. Remember the 4520 went all the way down to $1K from over $2K original.

 

[flyboylr45]

I personally wouldn't buy the Onkyo, Pioneer, or anything else except Denon.

If I had more money to just waste, I would get McIntosh with Audyssey.

I can't buy anything that doesn't have Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

Should give Electronics Expo and see if they would sell the X2000 for $350 shipped brand new.

Wow wow wow. What do you mean a Mcintosh with Audyssey? I thought they only used Roomperfect. ;-) When I was on my shopping spree I almost bought one of their MX151. Didn't buy it because then I would have been forced to buy the B&W matching center and rears and an MC303 and it was a little too much. ;-)


And agree with the others, Denon all the way, maybe even Marantz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow wow wow. What do you mean a Mcintosh with Audyssey? I thought they only used Roomperfect. ;-) When I was on my shopping spree I almost bought one of their MX151. Didn't buy it because then I would have been forced to buy the B&W matching center and rears and an MC303 and it was a little too much. ;-)

The McIntosh MX121 has Audyssey XT.

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=hometheaterprocessors&ProductId=MX121

But I'm sure Room-Perfect (Lyngdorf) is just as good. It's just that I've never tried their version of "Dynamic EQ" (whatever they call it). So I don't know if I would prefer it. And the key word is "prefer".

 

[PENG]

If you can stretch your budget, the X-4000 seems to be the best deal right now. Otherwise, I would consider the 2312, 2313, 3312, 3313 for best sound quality for the $. ADTG will tell you about his 3312(s), how they have no trouble driving even 4 ohm speakers. If you can believe David Vaughn (I do, but not everyone at S&V/HTM), even the 2313 can drive his 4 ohm speakers in his reference room. http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-2313ci-av-receiver. In that review, he said "I reinstalled my Integra DHC-80.2 and Anthem PVA 7 and rewatched many of the critical scenes and would likely be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the two different setups in a true blind comparison. That’s quite a compliment considering my Integra/Anthem stack is over four times the Denon’s cost!"

You may be able to find those for $449, still X-4000 for $799 is currently unbeatable, but we must respect your self imposed budget.

 

[speakerman39]

I would not buy the X4000 until it is down to $650 or less. Remember the 4520 went all the way down to $1K from over $2K original.

Oh my if it goes that low in price it will surely tempt me. I also see the 3313 for like $640 with free shipping. That sure is so tempting......LOL!!!! Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

If you can stretch your budget, the X-4000 seems to be the best deal right now. Otherwise, I would consider the 2312, 2313, 3312, 3313 for best sound quality for the $. ADTG will tell you about his 3312(s), how they have no trouble driving even 4 ohm speakers. If you can believe David Vaughn (I do, but not everyone at S&V/HTM), even the 2313 can drive his 4 ohm speakers in his reference room. http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-2313ci-av-receiver. In that review, he said "I reinstalled my Integra DHC-80.2 and Anthem PVA 7 and rewatched many of the critical scenes and would likely be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the two different setups in a true blind comparison. That’s quite a compliment considering my Integra/Anthem stack is over four times the Denon’s cost!"

You may be able to find those for $449, still X-4000 for $799 is currently unbeatable, but we must respect your self imposed budget.

Thanks Peng for posting. Been waiting for YOUR input. I respect YOUR opinion very much. Yeah, I may just wait and see if the x4000 comes down closer to my budget. I would be willing to up my budget some if that were to happen. Crutchfield has the Onkyo NR727/828 at very good deals. of the two, the 828 is the much better buy given the caliber of receiver it is. However, I have been reading about some sort of hdmi board problems and complaints about over-heating. That (over-heating) may explain what is causing the hdmi board issues to begin with. Or, perhaps it could be a quality control issue. What are YOUR thoughts/experiences with Onkyo? Thanks once again for YOUR help my friend.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[PENG]

However, I have been reading about some sort of hdmi board problems and complaints about over-heating. That (over-heating) may explain what is causing the hdmi board issues to begin with. Or, perhaps it could be a quality control issue. What are YOUR thoughts/experiences with Onkyo? Thanks once again for YOUR help my friend.

Cheers,

Phil

I have no experience with Onkyo receivers. I know friends who own the older models and are happy with them. The 828 does seem like a good buy. If you are concerned with its reliability then you should try to buy one from an authorized dealer in order to get full manufacturer's warranty. If I read it right, the 828 comes with a 2 year warranty, vs the X-4000's 3 years.

 

[speakerman39]

I have no experience with Onkyo receivers. I know friends who own the older models and are happy with them. The 828 does seem like a good buy. If you are concerned with its reliability then you should try to buy one from an authorized dealer in order to get full manufacturer's warranty. If I read it right, the 828 comes with a 2 year warranty, vs the X-4000's 3 years.

I see. I do agree in that the 828 is a very good buy. Crutchfield is fully authorized. However, there is still concerns for Onkyo reliability albeit hdmi board problems. I would love to own the X4000 especially since I just discovered it has MultEQ XT32. The 3313 just has the MultEQ XT. Not too sure what all this entails, but I will certainly read up about it. Do YOU know what are the significant differences between MultEQ XT32 vs. MultEQ XT?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[PENG]

I see. I do agree in that the 828 is a very good buy. Crutchfield is fully authorized. However, there is still concerns for Onkyo reliability albeit hdmi board problems. I would love to own the X4000 especially since I just discovered it has MultEQ XT32. The 3313 just has the MultEQ XT. Not too sure what all this entails, but I will certainly read up about it. Do YOU know what are the significant differences between MultEQ XT32 vs. MultEQ XT?

Cheers,

Phil

In my room the XT32+SubEQHT did a better job in smoothing the base frequencies. When I had my AV7005 and AVR-4308, I had a couple of huge dips in the 50 and 70 Hz etc., XT32/SubEQHT was able to improve those by a few dB to the point now from 20 to 100 my room curve look within +/- 2 to 3 dB with 1/6 smoothing. I think I might have posted it in the one of the threads in the subwoofer group.

All that said, it really depends on the individual because a lot of people may not prefer the sound of a flat response. I would say if you are a classical live concert goer, you would prefer flat curve sound or at least find that a good starting point. If you just like the thrill of hearing crystal clear highs, and exaggerating bass, then you may or may not like Audyssey at all, regardless of XT or XT32. Or if you have a near perfect rectangular shaped room Audyssey may not doing anything audible after all.

If say $100 to $150 more means a jump to XT32+SubEQHT then I would say go for it. I know everyone has a budget but in this case you are jumping to a whole different category. The X-4000 brings you not only XT32+SubEQHT but also a beefier amp section, power supply, pre-outs and a 3 year warranty. The 828 (that ranks below quite a few models within the Onkyo AVR product line) offers superior bangs for the dollars, but it is not a Denon that ranks 2nd in their 2013 lineup and is good if you are sure Audyssey MultEQ, 2 year warranty is enough for you to save a couple hundred dollars.

By the way, Audioholics seem to like the X-4000 a lot, read this http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x4000-review/conclusion

Question now is, how long will it take you to find the extra $$ and whether you have the patience.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well Audyssey may flatten the FR, but that's where Audyssey Dynamic EQ comes in to enhance the bass.

That's what I like about DEQ.

 

[speakerman39]

In my room the XT32+SubEQHT did a better job in smoothing the base frequencies. When I had my AV7005 and AVR-4308, I had a couple of huge dips in the 50 and 70 Hz etc., XT32/SubEQHT was able to improve those by a few dB to the point now from 20 to 100 my room curve look within +/- 2 to 3 dB with 1/6 smoothing. I think I might have posted it in the one of the threads in the subwoofer group.

All that said, it really depends on the individual because a lot of people may not prefer the sound of a flat response. I would say if you are a classical live concert goer, you would prefer flat curve sound or at least find that a good starting point. If you just like the thrill of hearing crystal clear highs, and exaggerating bass, then you may or may not like Audyssey at all, regardless of XT or XT32. Or if you have a near perfect rectangular shaped room Audyssey may not doing anything audible after all.

If say $100 to $150 more means a jump to XT32+SubEQHT then I would say go for it. I know everyone has a budget but in this case you are jumping to a whole different category. The X-4000 brings you not only XT32+SubEQHT but also a beefier amp section, power supply, pre-outs and a 3 year warranty. The 828 (that ranks below quite a few models within the Onkyo AVR product line) offers superior bangs for the dollars, but it is not a Denon that ranks 2nd in their 2013 lineup and is good if you are sure Audyssey MultEQ, 2 year warranty is enough for you to save a couple hundred dollars.

By the way, Audioholics seem to like the X-4000 a lot, read this http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x4000-review/conclusion

Question now is, how long will it take you to find the extra $$ and whether you have the patience.

I think at this time I am going to wait before pulling the trigger. As much as I would love to own the NR828, I think it is best not to take a chance with it. Just too much money involved for my liking. To be honest, I have had much better luck with both Denon and Yamaha. That is, they both are highly reliable brands. We are closing in on Black Friday so I am sure there will be deals to be had. Who knows, I may get lucky and end up with the X4000 which is what I would prefer to own. MultEQ XT32 will more than fill my needs. Hence, I hope to own (2) small 8" Hsu subs or a single 10" Hsu sub. Just will have to learn to keep them down given that I reside in an apartment. Thanks for YOUR help Peng. I will also read up on that review in the link YOU provided.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[RichB]

Well Audyssey may flatten the FR, but that's where Audyssey Dynamic EQ comes in to enhance the bass.

That's what I like about DEQ.

Sound is like a women..

- Rich

 

[speakerman39]

Well Audyssey may flatten the FR, but that's where Audyssey Dynamic EQ comes in to enhance the bass.

That's what I like about DEQ.

Ummmm I could be wrong, but I think YOU really like the Dynamic EQ.........! Given that I reside in a small apartment the Dynamic EQ will certainly be a useful tool for me. Just going to wait a bit longer and see what kind of deal(s) I can get on the X4000 or even perhaps a Yamaha receiver. Have had very good luck with both of them in the past. The Pioneer VSX-1123 seems to have some quality control issues from what I garner. Just scares me like the Onkyo does.......

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Sound is like a women..

- Rich

Isn't that the truth.....Bahahahahahahahahahahaah!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ummmm I could be wrong, but I think YOU really like the Dynamic EQ.........

Just a little bit.