Please recommend upgrade from Lexicon MC-1

[brad1138]

I love my MC-1, but it only has a 30msec max audio delay, and I need more to keep my audio in sync with my new 70" LCD. If I take the optical out of the TV, I can use the TV to delay the audio, but it only works on DD, not DTS, and I don't think it sounds quite as good (may be in my head).

I always buy used, I got the MC-1 for under $250, I think that was a great deal. I know a more modern preamp will be a lot more expensive. I want to look for a good deal, but I don't want to lose sound quality.

What would you recommend?

Thanks

 

[j_garcia]

So what's your current budget? You could just go with an AVR in your price range as long as it has preamp outs, but the only inexpensive pres I know of are the Emotiva UMC-200 and the Outlaw 975.

 

[brad1138]

Under $1000, preferably closer to $500.

I want a preamp only. This is also my stereo for music listening, I don't think any reasonably price receiver would match the MC-1 for audio quality. I could go 2 directions, if someone knows a slightly newer pre-amp like the MC-4 or 8 or 12 etc.. had a larger audio delay, up to about 200msec, that would probably do fine. Or I could look into a much newer one with HDMI and all the latest, processing, but I don't think I will find even a used one for under $1000.

Also, I have heard some nicer Blu Ray players have built in audio delay, but I didn't see any with a quick search.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is the video connected from player to TV and audio connected from player to processor? That's why there is an audio delay?

Most of us have the player audio/video connected to processor via HDMI. Thus, there isn't a delay.

So I'm thinking you just need to buy a processor with HDMI.

 

[j_garcia]

You didn't look at my suggestions at all. BOTH of those are in the $600 range and have HDMI. If this is analog, which is what I'd expect from most audio focused systems with the emphasis on the source side, then the pre's audio properties are almost irrelevant.

Sounds like you'd also be quite surprised at the audio quality you'll get from an AVR these days, in most cases with a better feature set, but that's a separate discussion and I'm not saying it is the best option.

Most inexpensive Blu-ray players lack analog outputs completely today, so you'll either need to look at an older model or at an Oppo, which I believe both of their current models offer audio delay.

 

[brad1138]

Is the video connected from player to TV and audio connected from player to processor? That's why there is an audio delay?

Most of us have the player audio/video connected to processor via HDMI. Thus, there isn't a delay.

So I'm thinking you just need to buy a used processor with HDMI.

I have tried it both ways, HDMI is always from PS3 to TV of course, but I have tried Optical out from PS3 straight to MC-1 and from TV to MC-1. The TV has built in audio delay, but it only delays DD, not DTS.

A quality used processor with HDMI is basically what I am asking for recommendations for in the thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Under $1000, preferably closer to $500.

I want a preamp only. This is also my stereo for music listening, I don't think any reasonably price receiver would match the MC-1 for audio quality. I could go 2 directions, if someone knows a slightly newer pre-amp like the MC-4 or 8 or 12 etc.. had a larger audio delay, up to about 200msec, that would probably do fine. Or I could look into a much newer one with HDMI and all the latest, processing, but I don't think I will find even a used one for under $1000.

Also, I have heard some nicer Blu Ray players have built in audio delay, but I didn't see any with a quick search.

Here is a Lexicon MC-8 for $650 asking price.

Lexicon MC-8 Preamplifier Surround Processor Pre /Pro | Processors | Levittown, New York 11756 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

 

[slipperybidness]

I love my MC-1, but it only has a 30msec max audio delay, and I need more to keep my audio in sync with my new 70" LCD. If I take the optical out of the TV, I can use the TV to delay the audio, but it only works on DD, not DTS, and I don't think it sounds quite as good (may be in my head).

I always buy used, I got the MC-1 for under $250, I think that was a great deal. I know a more modern preamp will be a lot more expensive. I want to look for a good deal, but I don't want to lose sound quality.

What would you recommend?

Thanks

Before you go wasting money on new equipment, it would be worth checking out some of your settings.

In particular, is your TV doing ANY video processing at all? Motion blur reduction or any other video processing modes?

Many TVs will have a "Game Mode" or something similar that shuts off all video processing. Video processing creates delays / lag, and that split second will always get you killed while playing FPS online.

So, before investing more $, be 100% sure that your TV, Source, and anything else you can think of are not applying some processing that is introducing lag / delay and causing your current problem on the video being so delayed that the audio is too fast.

Also, if you are the DIY type, there may be some time delay circuit schematics readily available online.

Or look into something LIKE this. Disclaimer: I simply searched for "speaker delay" at PE and this came up. I know nothing about it, but the point is that there are probably units already available to solve your problem.
Behringer FEX800 Minifex 24-Bit Stereo Multi-FX Processor

 

[crossedover]

If your up to a 1k budget, pic up the Marantz 7701 for 999 at accesories4less

 

[GIEGAR]

Under $1000, preferably closer to $500.

... Or I could look into a much newer one with HDMI and all the latest, processing, but I don't think I will find even a used one for under $1000.

...

A quality used processor with HDMI is basically what I am asking for recommendations for in the thread.

Burger with the lot for <$1K asking... HDMI 1.4a (incl. 2 out), THX Ultra 2+, Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT, balanced XLR in and out:

Integra DHC 80.2 9.2 Channel Network AV processor Balanced | Processors | Rancho Santa Mar, California 92688 | AudiogoN

Product page: Integra DHC-80.2 9.2 Channel Network A/V Controller

 

[brad1138]

Here is a Lexicon MC-8 for $650 asking price.

Lexicon MC-8 Preamplifier Surround Processor Pre /Pro | Processors | Levittown, New York 11756 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

Thanks, but I looked up the current MC-12HD and it only has 60msec delay, I would assume any previous model would probably have same limitation. I have read 200 msec delay is not uncommon in modern receivers/processors, I am not sure when that started though.

 

[brad1138]

Before you go wasting money on new equipment, it would be worth checking out some of your settings.

In particular, is your TV doing ANY video processing at all? Motion blur reduction or any other video processing modes?

Many TVs will have a "Game Mode" or something similar that shuts off all video processing. Video processing creates delays / lag, and that split second will always get you killed while playing FPS online.

So, before investing more $, be 100% sure that your TV, Source, and anything else you can think of are not applying some processing that is introducing lag / delay and causing your current problem on the video being so delayed that the audio is too fast.

Also, if you are the DIY type, there may be some time delay circuit schematics readily available online.

Or look into something LIKE this. Disclaimer: I simply searched for "speaker delay" at PE and this came up. I know nothing about it, but the point is that there are probably units already available to solve your problem.
Behringer FEX800 Minifex 24-Bit Stereo Multi-FX Processor

I have spent a LOT of time digging through the settings in the TV, it does have a game mode and that eliminates most, but not all, of the offset, but the picture quality suffers in that mode. Thanks.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have spent a LOT of time digging through the settings in the TV, it does have a game mode and that eliminates most, but not all, of the offset, but the picture quality suffers in that mode. Thanks.

Well, it was worth a try. Since nobody else had mentioned it, I wanted to be sure you weren't wasting $.

Now, I'm kind of surprised that the picture quality suffers. Maybe it only suffers for non-1080p source material?

 

[brad1138]

Well, it was worth a try. Since nobody else had mentioned it, I wanted to be sure you weren't wasting $.

Now, I'm kind of surprised that the picture quality suffers. Maybe it only suffers for non-1080p source material?

Game mode shuts off most of the video processing, that is how it mostly eliminates the delay, that video processing helps improve the picture.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, based on my experience, I can only say what I would personally do if I were in your shoes.

I would try to get a new Denon X4000 AVR for $650 (MSRP $1300).

I don't believe for one nanosecond that any old pre-pro would sound better just because they have a higher original MSRP or because they are "separates".

I also believe the Outlaw and Emotiva pre-pro w/ HDMI would sound every bit as good as the Lexicon pre-pro.

 

[brad1138]

Well, based on my experience, I can only say what I would personally do if I were in your shoes.

I would try to get a new Denon X4000 AVR for $650 (MSRP $1300).

I don't believe for one nanosecond that any old pre-pro would sound better just because they have a higher original MSRP or because they are "separates".

I also believe the Outlaw and Emotiva pre-pro w/ HDMI would sound every bit as good as the Lexicon pre-pro.

I wouldn't want to buy that just to use the preamp section, if I was to go that direction, I think the Denon DN-500AV looks better. It is only a preamp, and goes for less than $1000.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wouldn't want to buy that just to use the preamp section, if I was to go that direction, I think the Denon DN-500AV looks better. It is only a preamp, and goes for less than $1000.

I know. But guys have been able to buy the Denon 4520 for $1K and the X4000 could be had for around $650, which is cheaper than the DN-500AV. However, I understand if you feel you need to buy a "pre-pro", instead of AVR.

 

[GIEGAR]

Brad, what's wrong with the recommendation at post #10?

From the eBrochure:

• A/V Sync Control Function (Up to 250 ms in 2 ms Steps)

Other than that, the thing's loaded with every conceivable feature bar the kitchen sink.

... and the asking price is within your budget.

 

[brad1138]

Brad, what's wrong with the recommendation at post #10?

Not necessarily anything, but I am not familiar with the brand, it kind of sounded like one of those new Chinese brands, not real keen on those. That and I didn't know what "Burger with the lot for <$1K" meant.

 

[GIEGAR]

Well, based on my experience, I can only say what I would personally do if I were in your shoes.

I would try to get a new Denon X4000 AVR for $650 (MSRP $1300).

I don't believe for one nanosecond that any old pre-pro would sound better just because they have a higher original MSRP or because they are "separates".

I totally agree with you on all of that, FWIW.

However, there are a couple of scenarios where - provided the individual already has power amps (or powered speakers) with balanced inputs - I'd easily recommend a pre-pro for it's balanced (XLR) outputs:

1. Where long cable runs or other electrical factors warrant the noise rejection capability of a balanced connection.
   
   
2. Where the input sensitivity of the power amp is high enough to require the higher pre-out voltage of balanced outputs (typically double that of unbalanced) to comfortably (ie. with headroom) drive the amp to full power.

I can see no inherent advantages in a pre-pro with only unbalanced (RCA) connections over an AVR used as pre-pro.

I also believe the Outlaw and Emotiva pre-pro w/ HDMI would sound every bit as good as the Lexicon pre-pro.

Or exactly the same? Has anyone taken the cover off a Lexicon pre-pro lately?

I know. But guys have been able to buy the Denon 4520 for $1K and the X4000 could be had for around $650, which is cheaper than the DN-500AV. However, I understand if you feel you need to buy a "pre-pro", instead of AVR.

That, and the big omission (for me at least) by D|M Pro with the DN-500AV is the complete lack of an automated speaker/sub setup routine, including... NO BLOODY AUDYSSEY!!!