3 Zone Home Audio - Which Amp?

[rspence]

Forgive any noob errors in this post as it is my first, but probably not my last, to Audioholics.

I'm building a new house and have had it wired to bring speaker wire from 3 different zones into one location.

I'd like to find a receiver to power speakers in the 3 zones:
Zone 1 - Kitchen
Zone 2 - Dining Room
Zone 3 - Outdoor Patio
Receiver Rack in Mudroom (easy access from kitchen area)

I don't need it to play different sources (although that would be a nice option).

One of the sets of speakers are in-ceiling Yamaha NSIC800WH 140-Watt 2-Way RMS Speakers (for the kitchen and will get 90% of the use) ... the other speakers are TBD.
One set will be on the back patio (probably yamaha outdoor speakers) and the other will be TBD-wife-friendly wall-meets-ceiling mount speakers. (Need to be small and white - any suggestions are appreciated.)

Also... I had the cabinet builders designed an enclosure for a subwoofer (Klipsch SW-350[) into the kitchen island which is also wired to the receiver location. The volume on the sub should be paired with the in-ceiling kitchen speakers).

What budget-priced receiver or receiver/speaker-selector combo would best suit my needs and how do i wire it?
Built-in Airplay would be nice as that will be the main source of content, but I could just add an Apple TV.

Bedrooms and Family/Living Rooms will have their own dedicated systems.

Please let me know what info I'm leaving out and/or any considerations I'm not taking into account.

Thanks.

 

[ImcLoud]

OK so it sounds to me like the firs thing you should look for is an AVR {HT receiver} for your living room... I would look for one with a zone 2 {or 2 and 3 if you want multi sources} and a sub output for the zone 2....

like this one ONKYO TX-NR626 7.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver WiFi/Bluetooth | Accessories4less now I am not saying to get that one, I would look further I just know that one has a zone 2 and a zone 2 sub output, there are many others that have them options also, I would look into a unit that has another zone 3 with no sub, so the sub only plays when the kitchen is on....

In that case, if you get an avr with 3 zones , 1 will be your living room tv, one will be your kitchen with the sub, and the last will be your other room and outside.. I would use this amplifier since you want that sub incorporated {I would try to steer you away from that but to each there own, if you want a sub in the kitchen its your house, I think sq will actually suffer from it and its going to add a good amount of cost to the system as well as complexity, to do it right, now you can just put an rca splitter before the amp and run it to the sub, but you it wont sound good...}, I would look into parasound zamps, the 4 channel and 2 channel may be a good fit, but they aren't really inexpensive... http://www.amazon.com/Parasound-Quattro-Channel-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00EIN7F1C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409599668&sr=8-2&keywords=zamp+parasound and the 2 channel is Amazon.com: Parasound - Zamp v.3 - Two-Channel Amplifier: Electronics but you can get them much cheaper on ebay and on sale here and there... It would make a nice setup but expect to spend around $600 for used ones...

So before I flood you with options, let us know what you want to spend for a budget, how you want it to work as far as what you expect from sq, ease of operation, ect... and we can get some ideas up for you, I am sure...

 

[Lulimet]

AVRs with 3 zones are not budget friendly. They are $1000 and up.

Since you don't need to play different sources in different rooms, I would suggest you pick up a 7.1 receiver with Airplay capability (Onkyos don't have Airplay) and use the 7 channel stereo setting. Connect the 3 pairs of speakers to the FR, FL, SR, SL, SBR, and SBL. This is the cheapest option IMO.

The Denon E400 at $240 is 7.1 and has Airplay. DENON AVR-E400 7.1 4K & 3D Networking Receiver Airplay | Accessories4less

 

[rspence]

I was thinking a 7.1 receiver might fit the bill, but can you control the volume of the channels independently?
... or can I at least turn them off?

 

[herbu]

I was thinking a 7.1 receiver might fit the bill, but can you control the volume of the channels independently?
... or can I at least turn them off?

You need to understand one thing. The Main Zone is the only powered zone. Zones 2 & 3 are non-powered, (pre-amp), zones.

This means you can simply run speaker wires from your AVR main zone outputs to your speakers. All AVR controls, like volume, work with the main zone.
If you do this, "Connect the 3 pairs of speakers to the FR, FL, - SR, SL, - SBR, SBL", you are using only the main zone, so volume and other controls work. Unfortunately, there is not an easy way to select which pair of speakers come on, or to control the volume separately. When you turn it on, you'll get the same thing and the same volume in each of the 3 rooms.

Or, you can wire speakers to Zone 1 (Main), then use Zone 2 for the second room, and Zone 3 for the third room. NOW you can control them separately.
However, remember that Zone 2 and Zone 3 are likely non-powered. It means the output from your AVR to Zones 2 & 3 has NOT gone through the amplifier in the AVR, so the signal is not strong enough to drive speakers. It is a "pre-amp" signal, and must be amplified. That means a separate amp for Zone 2, and another for Zone 3. (You can get them pretty cheaply.) With separate amps, now you can control the volume in rooms 2 & 3 separately by using the volume on those amps. And you can select different sources in your AVR for the different zones, ex. TV in Zone 1, Radio in Zone 2, CD in Zone 3.

 

[Lulimet]

I was thinking a 7.1 receiver might fit the bill, but can you control the volume of the channels independently?
... or can I at least turn them off?

Oh, I thought you were going to play music in all 3 zones at the same time. A 7.1 re eiver wont work for you then.

 

[crossedover]

ONKYO TX-NR929 9.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver WiFi/Bluetooth | Accessories4less
you will need a small display to run the initial setup, but its a cheap multi zone multi source solution

 

[ecologydoc]

You need to understand one thing. The Main Zone is the only powered zone. Zones 2 & 3 are non-powered, (pre-amp), zones.

But I run a 5.1 in zone 1 and 2 patio speakers in zone 2 off a single AVR, Onkyo TX-NR929.

 

[Lulimet]

The Onkyo 929 would work with the 3 zones but it's $800.

*edit* Onkyos don't have the AirPlay feature.

 

[rspence]

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

Is there a way to use a 7.1 AVR and then run the speaker wire to some sort of unit that would control On/Off and Volume for each of the three sets of speakers before it terminates at the speaker?

Does such a thing exist?

 

[rspence]

UPDATE...

I came across this helpful article (I can't link because I'm a noob.. but it is an Audioholics primer titled "How to use Speaker Selectors")
It sounds like a speaker selector is the way to go, but it raised a couple of questions:

1. How do speaker selectors deal with subwoofers? None of the speaker selectors with volume controls I found have sub outputs.

2. if the Speaker Selector is running all sets of speaker from one output on the amp, how does it power them all?

Would a reasonable solution be to run an AVS amp with the kitchen speakers and sub connected directly to the amp and then a 2 Zone Speaker Selector (with volume control) off another channel that would go to the Dining Room and Outdoor Patio?

Frankly, I'd prefer to just do away with the AVS and use a plain audio amp with Airplay, if such a thing existed. I don't need any HDMI inputs on this whatsoever. An AVS amp just seems like overkill.

Any suggestions?

 

[crossedover]

The issue will be with the sub. An mid range avr 7.1 should work for you with a speaker selector, however the linked 9.2 onkyo will be close in price with sub effectively integrated, multi source, air play etc. IR repeaters could be run to each room and you could use the remote to control the sources and volume.

 

[rspence]

Am I wrong in thinking that a 5.1 AVR would be sufficient if I use a 2 Zone Speaker Selector?

Kitchen -> connected directly to AVR w/Sub (Yamaha NSIC800WH 140-Watts 2-Way RMS Speakers)
Dining Room -> Zone 1 on Speaker Selector
Patio -> Zone 2 on Speaker Selector

If i use Yamaha NS-AW150WH (120 watts maximum power capacity, 35 watts nominal) in the dining room and patio, how many watts do I need the AVR to push to power everything? (Taking into consideration the Speaker Selector needs to power 2 sets.)

Note: I really don't want to spend more than $400 on all of this, so the Onkyo 9.2 is way out of my price range.

 

[rspence]

{I would try to steer you away from that but to each there own, if you want a sub in the kitchen its your house, I think sq will actually suffer from it and its going to add a good amount of cost to the system as well as complexity, to do it right, now you can just put an rca splitter before the amp and run it to the sub, but you it wont sound good...}, .

Thanks for in sub advice.
To clarify, the kitchen is open concept and is open to the dining room, so the sub will actually be heard in both spaces. Unfortunately, the island (which sits between the two areas) is the only place we could find space to incorporate it. We've had the cabinet designers make it just the right size and they left the cabinet door panel off the door frame so that we can mount speaker fabric or a metal mesh conceal the sub inside the cabinet.
But this is all academic, since it's already installed and there's no turning back.

Wish I would have started posting here a few months back to get advice earlier.

 

[rspence]

I just realized a potential issue with using an AVR with a Speaker Selector...

If I was listening to music on the patio (via the Speaker Selector) and adjusted volume in the kitchen, wouldn't it change the volume on the patio (and all the other zones) also?

 

[herbu]

But I run a 5.1 in zone 1 and 2 patio speakers in zone 2 off a single AVR, Onkyo TX-NR929.

Yes, that AVR has powered 3 zones. Not a common capability.

 

[crossedover]

Am I wrong in thinking that a 5.1 AVR would be sufficient if I use a 2 Zone Speaker Selector?

Kitchen -> connected directly to AVR w/Sub (Yamaha NSIC800WH 140-Watts 2-Way RMS Speakers)
Dining Room -> Zone 1 on Speaker Selector
Patio -> Zone 2 on Speaker Selector

If i use Yamaha NS-AW150WH (120 watts maximum power capacity, 35 watts nominal) in the dining room and patio, how many watts do I need the AVR to push to power everything? (Taking into consideration the Speaker Selector needs to power 2 sets.)

Note: I really don't want to spend more than $400 on all of this, so the Onkyo 9.2 is way out of my price range.

Using a speaker selector with independent volume controls off of zone two, for the the additional 2 zones would allow for separate control. Your dining room speakers are some what ineffecient @85db 1w1m 6ohms nominal, and not knowing your patio speakers and the run length, using a low level avr to drive both of a speaker selector a t low volumes might be ok, but driving both a mid or moderate volumes might present an issue.

You could always do a cheap 5.1 with zone two analog out to one of these

 

[rspence]

I've not settled on the Yamaha speaker for the Dining Room and Patio just yet, but they seemed to get good reviews and they are cheap.

The Patio will be about 50 ft. from the receiver.

I'm not sure what the Sherwood accomplishes for my purpose.
From what I can tell, it powers two zones, but there is only one volume control???

If it helps... here's a floor plan:

 

[crossedover]

The sherwood has independent volume for two zones.

 

[rspence]

I think I've sorted out a cheap, yet functional solution, but I want to make sure that it will work...

I've found a Yamaha HTR-5250 on Craigslist for next to nothing.
It is a 5.1 receiver with a Pre Out.

I will run the Channel A speakers to the Kitchen and the Channel B Speakers to the Dining Room (and the Sub to the Sub, of course) - decided I don't need to adjust the Dining Room volume separately.
I can use the Pre-out to add an amp to power the outdoor speakers at a later date.

For Airplay, I'll just get an Airport Express or Apple TV and use one of the inputs on the receiver.

Does anyone see a problem with this set up?

Thanks to everyone for their help.