NAD vs. Parasound Preamplifier

[sharkman]

I've got the A21, and after a year of experimenting, settled on a Halo P7. What a great unit, I'm really convinced that there is a synergy between Pre and amp running to Paradigm Sig S6's. I agonized over this looking at the 2100 and wondering which way to go, what made me go with the Halo was owners reviews that upgraded to the P5 from the 2100. I was all set to get a P5 but then a P7 popped up for sale used so I went for that instead.

If you're undecided, just google an image of the 2100 with the cover off. It's mostly empty inside compared to the P5. And stay away from a used Emotiva USP-1, complaints are the volume knob adjustment is really touchy, and it can sound forward with the wrong speakers.

 

[ImcLoud]

If you're undecided, just google an image of the 2100 with the cover off. It's mostly empty inside compared to the P5. And stay away from a used Emotiva USP-1, complaints are the volume knob adjustment is really touchy, and it can sound forward with the wrong speakers.

With this thinking an insignia stereo receiver must sound really good because their chassis loaded with boards, lol... Of course the p7 is going to have a lot more in its chassis than a stereo pre-amp, that thing has circuitry all over the place, 7 channels plus subs all balanced or rca!!!! Thats a lot of wire and plastic in a half height chassis... But I wouldn't compare that to the p5 or 2100, its a totally different machine, one is for stereo and one is for surround sound, P7 would get used with say an oppo dvd player...
And the p5 internals are similar to the 2100's except the p5 has the built in dac...

To me I want the most direct path possible for music, the more "stuff" {ie a chassis full of boards} between the source and the amplification the more your signal is going to get changed... More direct more natural sound... For music, no room correction, tone control , ect... {tone control has to be bypass style, so when its not on it is not in the line}... I like the p5, and I love the 2100, but to be honest they sound the same, if anything the volume control on the 2100 is nicer, the only reason I would upgrade to it is because of the sub controls, I like built in cross overs with dial controls, vs a set at 80hz high pass... But I use mini dsp which is better than both, The op doesn't care about subs, so if he can live with the looks of the 2100 over the p5 {I like the p5's looks} it would be a better choice... But for sound even with subs, your money would be better spent on a 2100, muse dac, and mini dsp than a p5, that will give you a dac, preamp, and digital sub control for around $700 depending where you buy it...


I like the p5 a lot, but I think people get a little too hung up on the preamp changing or making it sound different.. To my ears all preamps I have heard sound the same, as they should, unless they are changing the sound somehow with switches and a volume control, lol....

Think about it, the signal comes in goes through some wires to a switch then to the volume potentiometer and then back out where you plug it into the amp, where can one unit do this different than another, unless you are using tone control? Sure some tube amps out there color the sound, and some pres have built in tone controls that can change the sound but for a decent ss preamp with a short path and tc bypassed you will not hear a difference. In my experience the only people that do are hearing it because they just sold their perfectly working pre for $400 and spent $1000 on one that sounds the same, lol... Of course it has to sound better at that point, its rare for someone to say, yah I just wanted something new, and liked how it looked...

Think about it this way...
buy this https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak
and this http://www.amazon.com/Source-Tabletop-Control-Switch-Internal/dp/B0056DQT1A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1410104746&sr=8-2&keywords=stereo+source+selector
and for $75 you will have a preamp with a super direct path...

Now of course we buy preamps because we want remote controls and fancy looks, but the above 2 items will switch up to 5 sources {if you need more just add another switching unit} and control volume, that volume control is about the best I have ever seen, all aluminum, and silent as are most now a days...

Where some preamps can be better than others is ergonomics, features like remote controls, triggers, mute, balanced in and outs, cross overs, tone control, pass through, dac's, phono preamp, balance control, ect. and how they sound when changing the volume, you don't want to hear static as you turn the knob, you don't want "pops" as you switch sources, no mechanical noises, no fans, ect... They will not change your sound in any other way, no warmer presentation with air head highs, lol....

Pick the preamp you like the looks of, price, of and features of, then call in your credit card and enjoy the music that most likely will only be changed by your speakers...

 

[sharkman]

With this thinking an insignia stereo receiver must sound really good because their chassis loaded with boards, lol... Of course the p7 is going to have a lot more in its chassis than a stereo pre-amp, that thing has circuitry all over the place, 7 channels plus subs all balanced or rca!!!! Thats a lot of wire and plastic in a half height chassis... But I wouldn't compare that to the p5 or 2100, its a totally different machine, one is for stereo and one is for surround sound, P7 would get used with say an oppo dvd player...
And the p5 internals are similar to the 2100's except the p5 has the built in dac...

To me I want the most direct path possible for music, the more "stuff" {ie a chassis full of boards} between the source and the amplification the more your signal is going to get changed... More direct more natural sound... For music, no room correction, tone control , ect... {tone control has to be bypass style, so when its not on it is not in the line}... I like the p5, and I love the 2100, but to be honest they sound the same, if anything the volume control on the 2100 is nicer, the only reason I would upgrade to it is because of the sub controls, I like built in cross overs with dial controls, vs a set at 80hz high pass... But I use mini dsp which is better than both, The op doesn't care about subs, so if he can live with the looks of the 2100 over the p5 {I like the p5's looks} it would be a better choice... But for sound even with subs, your money would be better spent on a 2100, muse dac, and mini dsp than a p5, that will give you a dac, preamp, and digital sub control for around $700 depending where you buy it...

I'm not sure why you feel that you must counter any post that offers a different perspective. I simply related my experience in deciding on the P5, and some of the determining factors that helped shape my decision, which I thought might aid the OP's efforts. Yes, the P7 is much more than a stereo preamp, it's a great piece! The excellent phono section indicates what Parasound's intentions were.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To my ears all preamps I have heard sound the same

To my ears, all preamps sound the same as good AVRs in Pure Direct mode. So there.

To my ears, the longer path sounds the same as the shorter path in Pure Direct mode. So double there.

But will anyone agree ? Probably not.

 

[ImcLoud]

I'm not sure you feel that you must counter any post that offers a different perspective. I simply related my experience in deciding on the P5, and some of the determining factors that helped shape my decision.

that wasn't all directed at you shark, just giving my input, no offence intended... I actually don't have a different perspective, I was just trying to give my advice as well. While I do not agree that you can tell the quality of a unit by how much "stuff" is inside it, ESPECIALLY when its a 2ch stereo preamp, a piece of equipment where I personally think less is more, I do dissagree with you on that point... But if you hear better sound from the p7 then great, I bet I couldn't tell the difference between it and the emo usp1 {which I own and think works and sounds great, never had issues with mine, I just like how the parasound works better so that is in its place}...

Anyway, no I meant no disrespect, just trying to keep the op on track, P5 is awesome, does a lot of stuff, but if he doesn't use subs, and doesn't need the dac, then the 2100 is going to sound the same and do what he needs... I hate to see someone spend more than they have to bsed on some of the reviews we see online, for the most part they are fueled by guys trying to make themselves feel better about spending more money, and companies that have to promote their new equipment, and there is nothing wrong with that, I do it too, I spend more on separates for HT when a good ar will do the same thing if not more, but I like how it looks, I like the extra power, resale value, ect... You need to justify your own purchases, if you are smart enough to ask for advice you are a step ahead of the game...

I hope you see my point, your post will lead the op to believe that the P5 or P7 sound better than a usp1 and a 2100 when its not true, they have newer looks, a few more features, but the sound will be the same... I am not sure if you ever listened to the usp 1 or 2100 but you would know they all sound the same, its that simple... Getting someone to spend more money for features he said he doesn't want is not productive, and the people that you listened to and told you the p5's sounded better did the same to you.. the 2100 can be had for almost half the price and if it does everything you want and you like the looks as much as the p5 than they did you a disservice..

heres the simple truth a preamp is a bunch of switches and pots, just switching your sources and changing the volume, thats it, if you think that how modern correctly installed switches are made can change you line level sound, then spend as much as you need to spend to hear it... Now if you want a specific feature or look that one has that is another story, that is the only reason I would ever upgrade myself...

 

[sharkman]

that wasn't all directed at you shark, just giving my input, no offence intended... I actually don't have a different perspective, I was just trying to give my advice as well. While I do not agree that you can tell the quality of a unit by how much "stuff" is inside it, ESPECIALLY when its a 2ch stereo preamp, a piece of equipment where I personally think less is more, I do dissagree with you on that point... But if you hear better sound from the p7 then great, I bet I couldn't tell the difference between it and the emo usp1 {which I own and think works and sounds great, never had issues with mine, I just like how the parasound works better so that is in its place}...

Anyway, no I meant no disrespect, just trying to keep the op on track, P5 is awesome, does a lot of stuff, but if he doesn't use subs, and doesn't need the dac, then the 2100 is going to sound the same and do what he needs... I hate to see someone spend more than they have to bsed on some of the reviews we see online, for the most part they are fueled by guys trying to make themselves feel better about spending more money, and companies that have to promote their new equipment, and there is nothing wrong with that, I do it too, I spend more on separates for HT when a good ar will do the same thing if not more, but I like how it looks, I like the extra power, resale value, ect... You need to justify your own purchases, if you are smart enough to ask for advice you are a step ahead of the game...

I hope you see my point, your post will lead the op to believe that the P5 or P7 sound better than a usp1 and a 2100 when its not true, they have newer looks, a few more features, but the sound will be the same... I am not sure if you ever listened to the usp 1 or 2100 but you would know they all sound the same, its that simple... Getting someone to spend more money for features he said he doesn't want is not productive, and the people that you listened to and told you the p5's sounded better did the same to you.. the 2100 can be had for almost half the price and if it does everything you want and you like the looks as much as the p5 than they did you a disservice..

heres the simple truth a preamp is a bunch of switches and pots, just switching your sources and changing the volume, thats it, if you think that how modern correctly installed switches are made can change you line level sound, then spend as much as you need to spend to hear it... Now if you want a specific feature or look that one has that is another story, that is the only reason I would ever upgrade myself...

You quoted me and countered the statements I made. At any rate, from what I've read, the P5 will indeed sound superior to the 2100. The mostly empty box that is the 2100 may have something to do with it, a sure sign of a tight budget. I did compare different components in the pre segment before I went with the P7, and there were sonic differences that had nothing to do with frequency response(Mind you, people blessed with only moderate hearing acumen, different from hearing loss, might not be able to hear such differences) .

At any rate, I am hoping this will be of aid to the OP and will leave it at that. The worst one can do is to post repeatedly in a short thread trying to convince/railroad the OP instead of simply trying to help.

 

[ImcLoud]

To my ears, all preamps sound the same as good AVRs in Pure Direct mode. So there.

To my ears, the longer path sounds the same as the shorter path in Pure Direct mode. So double there.

But will anyone agree ? Probably not.

No one asked you , I can say that some brand avr's in pure direct mode sound good with music {they all sound good, but you know what I mean}, NOW my main argument for not using an AVR for a music only system is, cost, resale value, size, ease of operation and installation, reliability, aesthetics, ect ect ect, lol....

I cannot help I like the thought of a short direct path with mono blocks {yah, I said it, "mono blocks"}, it looks awesome, it sounds awesome, just ooooozes class... lol... how sexy is this, who cares how it sounds, lol
http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2377994/1/1d/1de0a32c_THES-MBL-Xtreme.jpeg

But seriously, I have compared preamps, rite next to each other back and forth and they sound the freaking same, I have been in 90% of the hi fi shops in new england, and a lot more through out the country not to mention at least 5 in the UK, and I couldn't count the ones in europe {they are littered with them and they all have wharfedale lol} AND its funny to see the staff when they put swap to a different pre amp or compare ss amp 1 to ss amp 2 , and I say "c'mon, who do you think you are fooling" some believe the sound is night and day, but with tone control off and volumes the same they sound the same...

IT IS A BUNCH OF SWITCHES AND A VOLUME KNOB, how can that sound different, that is like saying light witch A is brighter then light switch B, be serious, and don't be fooled by the BS you read and see.. Buy the unit that has the options you want, the looks you want, the price you want to spend, ect. I put more stock in customer service than what I think a preamp will sound like!!!! The reason I like AH is because for the most part the members here know that cables, wire lifts, and amp stands full of sand are BS... Now does that make you stupid for buying them NO, its a hobby buy what you like, I have a nice thick amp stand, I have spikes and wire lifts on some systems, I like how they look, do I think my system would sound different with out them, NO, because I am not that opaque, yet...

I hope this helps the OP.... A test I have done is this, I owna preamp called the audiosource pre 1, it was $119 on amazon, and is the absolute cheapest stereo preamp I ever seen!!! I plug it in in place of my brothers Mark Levinson 326s {this is a $10K preamp, my brother bought locally from a friend of his for $3500, its kind of sexy, but that name has a lot to do with it}, and my brother is one of the guys that heres the difference between 12ga wire off of a roll and $200 speaker cables... We played it for 3 hours he never knew the difference, until he got a phone call picked up his remote and tried to mute it, I even kept asking him "what do you think of this song, do the mids sound muffled?" ect....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...my main argument for not using an AVR for a music only system is cost, resale value, size, ease of operation and installation, reliability, aesthetics, etc.

Can't argue with preference.

 

[ImcLoud]

Can't argue with preference.

is this your first day? sure I can, lol

 

[sharkman]

Can't argue with preference.

I think one can argue with just about anything!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

is this your first day? sure I can, lol

I think one can argue with just about anything!

True. But That's where I draw the line. If someone wants a preamp because of aesthetic or because it makes him feel good, I am all for it.

 

[ImcLoud]

True. But That's where I draw the line. If someone wants a preamp because of aesthetic or because it makes him feel good, I am all for it.

We are on the same page with this one, if it makes you happy and you just need to have it, GET IT... You have to admit a 2 channel rig with a nice preamp and pair of mono blocks is sexy...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You have to admit a 2 channel rig with a nice preamp and pair of mono blocks is sexy...

No, I won't admit that.

It depends on which preamp and which mono-block. If it is McIntosh, then, yes I admit it is sexy.

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.