What Are Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers?

[admin]

Atmos, Dolby's next generation object-oriented audio format, is about to make its formal debut in the home theater market. You have two options for installing the necessary height channels; in-ceiling or upfiring Atmos "Enabled" (aka Elevation speakers). This article explores the latter and takes an in-depth look at Dolby's patent as well as the challenges behind the technology. Are Atmos Elevation speakers compatible with future competing surround formats? Can you make your own Atmos Elevation speakers? You're gonna have to read our article to find out.

Read Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers Explained

Are you going with Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers, Making your Own or Going Ceiling Mounted? Please vote in our poll.

 

[ZeosPantera]

An array of small, efficient bookshelves like the Micca MB42's($60/PAIR) or the more pricey MB42X($80/PAIR) or the smaller Polk OWM3's($100/pair) would work just fine in my mind. If you are going with the ceiling beams wiring isn't an issue, if it is against the beams a few clean strait runs of wire molding on the sides or even strait up and over/behind to the speakers (Think track lighting) would do.

Keep the fronts where the big budget items live. Not sure if these new systems will support it but a six channel front array would be what I aimed for. Left, Right and Center in Up and Down positions. That aught to provide enough room to get some amazing height/movement effects in.

 

[3db]

I don't have a dedicated HT room so picking up any kind of additional speakers and buying a new AVR to support the format would be both useless and expensive. I'm extremely happy with what I have now.

 

[RichB]

Atmos accuracy?
Perhaps some of the controversy about Atmos up-firing speakers from AH and audiophiles stems from the concept of accuracy.
In my view, an accurate Atmos HT should be capable of placing the height objects in the location that was intended by sound designer.

We have heard testimonials from demo's and from Andrew Jones stating a preference for Atmos speakers.
Almost all demo attendees could clearly tell the difference between the Atmos and Ceiling speakers.
So we know the difference is detectable.

From the Article:

• Dr. Floyd Toole states that human interpretation of height cues vary.
• Audyssey does not measured the Atmos speaker direct sound but instead, estimates the actual difference based on an 8 foot ceiling.
• The Dolby patent which recommends 20 to 60 degree angle based upon the environment to maximize the performance. There is also the option of altering the DSP height processing since the mix of direct and reflected sound vary.

Is an Atmos up-firing is accurate?
IMO, there is good reason to wonder if Atmos speakers represent a convenient solution that adds a pleasant effect or a method that can accurately deliver the intended 3D sound.
Atmos up-firing speakers may create a reasonable representation of 3D sound or, much like a soundbar, they may create a pleasing sound and overcomes logistical limitations, but the sound is not the same or even close to the effect produced by a true surround system.

- Rich

 

[Rowdy S13]

Since I am in the planning stages of my build, I am watching Atmos like a hawk. I have a feeling there is a benefit to it, but is it worth the added cost? I am probably going to run wire into the ceiling "just in case", but I am not going to jump onto the additional speakers/gear right away. I figure at the wiring stage its no big deal to run extra wire so why not. I don't see how the reflective type solutions could really cut it for us Audioholics. Just like a sound bar, there is a market for them, but it aint us

Sean

 

[Steve81]

The way things are shaping up, one good option might simply be to run with the old front/rear height channels (i.e. wall mounted). It's the standard placement for Auro 3D, a valid placement for Atmos per Dolby's whitepaper (even if Gen 1 AVRs might not support it perfectly), and it should work just fine for DTS-UHD as well given what we know on that front. Enabled speakers are a no-go in that respect, i.e. it looks like they'll only work for Atmos soundtracks or via Dolby Surround upmixing.

 

[gene]

IMO choosing a speaker solution that is ONLY compatible with one format is short sighted. I fear if consumers go that route and invest in Atmos Elevation speakers now, they may regret that decision later on if Auro 3D and DTS UHD become commercially successful. Of course, some people live for upgrading so that may not be a problem. I tend to look at the bigger picture and prefer long term solutions.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

IMO choosing a speaker solution that is ONLY compatible with one format is short sighted. I fear if consumers go that route and invest in Atmos Elevation speakers now, they may regret that decision later on if Auro 3D and DTS UHD become commercially successful. Of course, some people live for upgrading so that may not be a problem. I tend to look at the bigger picture and prefer long term solutions.

This.

I have Danley SH-Mini stage monitors, I'd likely connect those on top of my JTR T8s to try Atmos Home (provided there was content and that content made me want to upgrade my pre-processor... likely for getting 4k to go with a 4k projector, not for Atmos).


Or, I'd mount height speakers on C-stands overhead ... type of stuff you can do in a man-cave but not likely a living room. This is what a C-stand looks like:

...obviously C-stands with sandbags wouldn't be a long term solution, but, would allow me to easily get an idea on if mounting ceiling speakers would be worthwhile. If I did do ceiling speakers, I'd do them on flyware like in the Dolby demo room... as inwalls are too limiting for the future.


Only reason I say C-stands specifically is that I have them, but, a mini truss would work too (can rent them).

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Great article! Solid info and great that AH was able to get industry experts opinions and explanations on the topic.

One point I disagree with is imo properly installed ceiling mounted speakers is have higher WAF factor that any other solution.

 

[RichB]

Great article! Solid info and great that AH was able to get industry experts opinions and explanations on the topic.

One point I disagree with is imo properly installed ceiling mounted speakers is have higher WAF factor that any other solution.

That would be the only possible solution in my house.
I might have to do it first.

Wife: "What are those things on the ceiling?"
Me: "Those, they have been there for a while"
Wife: "What are the for?"
Me: "They are a transducer based venting system"

- Rich

 

[GO-NAD!]

My HT room is in my basement, which has a 7' ceiling. Thanks, Dolby...

 

[gene]

Great article! Solid info and great that AH was able to get industry experts opinions and explanations on the topic.

One point I disagree with is imo properly installed ceiling mounted speakers is have higher WAF factor that any other solution.

If you can do flush mounted in-ceiling speakers, then I agree. I have a set for my surround back channels in my family room system but that won't be compatible with Gen 1 Atmos configurations so I will leave them as the back channels. I can't add in-ceiling speakers in ANY of my 3 theater systems sadly. I can however add front heights in my primary theater room towards the top of the front wall if need be, but Atmos doesn't support that either as of yet

 

[cpp]

I'm going with speakers in the ceilings, the wife wants all the addition speakers out of her way. After all we have really high ceiling and 4 additional speakers in the ceilings will not be a big deal as they will end up looking like AC vents when and if I add ATMOS to my home.

 

[Rowdy S13]

IMO choosing a speaker solution that is ONLY compatible with one format is short sighted. I fear if consumers go that route and invest in Atmos Elevation speakers now, they may regret that decision later on if Auro 3D and DTS UHD become commercially successful. Of course, some people live for upgrading so that may not be a problem. I tend to look at the bigger picture and prefer long term solutions.

So, with that said if you were in the wiring stage right now what would you do? I cant really run leads to every possible location (front height, rear height, in ceiling, etc.), but I am good with running SOME for possible future use. I am wiring for 7.2 right now, and will run up to 4 additional speaker leads to be left coiled behind the drywall for now, where should they land in the room?


Sean

 

[gene]

So, with that said if you were in the wiring stage right now what would you do? I cant really run leads to every possible location (front height, rear height, in ceiling, etc.), but I am good with running SOME for possible future use. I am wiring for 7.2 right now, and will run up to 4 additional speaker leads to be left coiled behind the drywall for now, where should they land in the room?


Sean

Sean IMO I would wire for a standard 7.1 layout with 4 ceiling mounted options (2 front and 2 rear).

For the front, rear and back channels, use 14/4 cable in case you want to use a pair of those cables to run Atmos elevation speakers. If you don't use Atmos Elevation speakers, parallel the two pairs of the 14/4 to yield 11AWG effective resistance.

This should be compatible with Auro and DTS UHD down the road.

Don't forget a few extra line level connections around the room for additional subs. Always better to run at least 2 subs if you can to even out the bass for more listening seats.

 

[RichB]

There are many on AVS harping on the statement that Atmos up-firing speakers "might work" was surprising.

I think the problem stems from the definition of "works".

So, what is the definition of an Atmos speaker working?
Obviously it will function and some sound will reach you directly and some indirectly the mix varies which is discussed in the patent.

To me, "working" means the height sounds are placed where the sound designer intended it in the persons home theater.

Of course, almost no users will be able to determine the position encoded, so working may be defined as produces a pleasant effect with increased ambiance.

It is also interesting that Dolby is not supporting front height speakers. Their notch filters are specifically designed to create cues from the direct sound, so why was support for this layout excluded?

- Rich

 

[crispy98007]

I just had to comment, new to the forum. A few years ago I tried surround at home in the living room (other than the main hifi) which had Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE speakers in the front, and since at the time I had nowhere to put rear speakers, I installed Dynaudio IP24's in the ceiling as rears ($1500/pr). It was a smallish bungalow in the Seattle area. After turning it on for the first time, it became SO apparent that the ceiling drywall was coloring the sound so much, as I had no room for rear speakers, that I just never turned them on again. The 1.3 SE's just CRUSHED them, all I could hear was the coloration of the drywall. It cost me more to take them out and patch the ceiling than the speakers were worth. Lesson learned.

I've been in the A/V business for over 35 years, sold THOUSANDS of pairs of in-wall/in-ceiling speakers and I personally wouldn't touch ANY of them with a 10 foot pole ever again. The only place I ever heard in-walls sound decent was in a million dollar dedicated custom HT with special bracing, boxing and damping behind the wall dedicated to those side/rear speakers (they also happened to be Dynaudio IP24's), and this room was built from the ground up.

For the industry to just be selling us more and more crap, going from 5.1 to 7.1 to 9.2...what's next, 17.4? How about BETTER speakers, amps, DACs, cabling etc., rather than just MORE of it? This is beyond obscene, IMO, and they're deliberately trying to make current receivers obsolete by introducing more formats, every year, and they've been doing this for years, just so you feel you have to buy new gear all the time.

Now I'm sure if ATMOS was done really RIGHT, with the customer having deep pockets, it might sound relatively impressive to some, but for the vast majority of you (like 99.9%), you are FAR better off UPGRADING what you already have than just buying MORE mediocre stuff! I'd rather have 1 Porsche than 10 Hyundais! To each their own, but this is marketing gone berserk. I'm just going to settle for a 6-figure 2-channel setup. If you've ever heard holographic imaging like I'm getting, it sounds like sounds are coming from behind and above me, and there aren't any speakers there! You're better off with 2 superb speakers than 9 mediocre ones (and the rest of the system to boot). Another way to look at it is if you want the same quality from 9 speakers+sub as 2 without a sub, you better be prepared to spend 5 times as much money!

Just my 2 cents...

 

[gene]

I just had to comment, new to the forum. A few years ago I tried surround at home in the living room (other than the main hifi) which had Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE speakers in the front, and since at the time I had nowhere to put rear speakers, I installed Dynaudio IP24's in the ceiling as rears ($1500/pr). It was a smallish bungalow in the Seattle area. After turning it on for the first time, it became SO apparent that the ceiling drywall was coloring the sound so much, as I had no room for rear speakers, that I just never turned them on again. The 1.3 SE's just CRUSHED them, all I could hear was the coloration of the drywall. It cost me more to take them out and patch the ceiling than the speakers were worth. Lesson learned.

I've been in the A/V business for over 35 years, sold THOUSANDS of pairs of in-wall/in-ceiling speakers and I personally wouldn't touch ANY of them with a 10 foot pole ever again. The only place I ever heard in-walls sound decent was in a million dollar dedicated custom HT with special bracing, boxing and damping behind the wall dedicated to those side/rear speakers (they also happened to be Dynaudio IP24's), and this room was built from the ground up.

For the industry to just be selling us more and more crap, going from 5.1 to 7.1 to 9.2...what's next, 17.4? How about BETTER speakers, amps, DACs, cabling etc., rather than just MORE of it? This is beyond obscene, IMO, and they're deliberately trying to make current receivers obsolete by introducing more formats, every year, and they've been doing this for years, just so you feel you have to buy new gear all the time.

Now I'm sure if ATMOS was done really RIGHT, with the customer having deep pockets, it might sound relatively impressive to some, but for the vast majority of you (like 99.9%), you are FAR better off UPGRADING what you already have than just buying MORE mediocre stuff! I'd rather have 1 Porsche than 10 Hyundais! To each their own, but this is marketing gone berserk. I'm just going to settle for a 6-figure 2-channel setup. If you've ever heard holographic imaging like I'm getting, it sounds like sounds are coming from behind and above me, and there aren't any speakers there! You're better off with 2 superb speakers than 9 mediocre ones (and the rest of the system to boot). Another way to look at it is if you want the same quality from 9 speakers+sub as 2 without a sub, you better be prepared to spend 5 times as much money!

Just my 2 cents...

Thanks for the great perspective from someone in the business for such as long of a time as you. I share much of your sentiments and concerns and I have done so in a humorous fashion via our first Atmos Youtube video but the Atmos police vilified me accordingly. I never dissed on Atmos as a technology. I just had reservations (and still do) about using reflective speaker technology.

I saw the recent Atmos interview with Scott at AVS and found it interesting that Brett from Dolby basically said you could place the Atmos modules on a bookshelf. And downplayed the importance of its close proximity to its companion speaker. Really? so now we can just place them around the room at any height and it's all good?

For years we've been placing out surrounds above ear level, but now we should place them on stands at ear level and then fire some modules up at the ceiling to create height? I suggest you can get a great sense of height (as I do now) placing side wall mounted surrounds and in or on-wall back channels a few feet above seated ear level position.

I can't tell you how many poor mediocre installs I've seen both at consumer homes and professionally by installers that would make you cringe. But now we are adding an element where people are supposed to play billiards with soundwaves with these new Atmos modules. Forgive me for being a skeptic.

I look forward to actually testing, measuring and evaluating this tech in the coming months but I still maintain GET the basic 5 speakers and subs right first before throwing more speakers into the mix!

 

[gene]

There are many on AVS harping on the statement that Atmos up-firing speakers "might work" was surprising.

I think the problem stems from the definition of "works".

So, what is the definition of an Atmos speaker working?
Obviously it will function and some sound will reach you directly and some indirectly the mix varies which is discussed in the patent.

To me, "working" means the height sounds are placed where the sound designer intended it in the persons home theater.

Of course, almost no users will be able to determine the position encoded, so working may be defined as produces a pleasant effect with increased ambiance.

It is also interesting that Dolby is not supporting front height speakers. Their notch filters are specifically designed to create cues from the direct sound, so why was support for this layout excluded?

- Rich

As Dr. Floyd Toole pointed out with physics and personal demo experience, Elevation speakers can never virtualize a sound source as good as a discrete direct firing speaker. Yes it can elevate the sound but it will also be quite scattered and narrowband and depends on many factors including: human hearing vs the generic HRTF, height of speaker vs ceiling, type of ceiling and shape, etc.

That being said, everyone has their own preferences, hence why dipole speakers still exist. You want an eye opening experience, read Dr. Floyd Toole's Acoustic book and his commentary on dipoles

 

[macddmac]

Looking forward to Pioneer's Atmos demo tomorrow at Cedia. Room 703.
Trying to keep an open mind but skeptical.
Cheers, Mac