Recommend AVR for 2 zone 9 channel to use with existing ceiling and wall speakers

M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
I'm newly registered here, thanks for the opportunity.

I'm adding three speakers and AVR to make functional a finished home theater in a recently purchased house. The builder of the home theater was a home theater business owner. We purchased from the second owner who did not build the theater. I can probably locate and communicate with the original builder if necessary.
The theater is now minus the AVR, front left speaker, front right speaker, and front center speaker.

The room is 16' X 12'6". The ceiling is 9'.
The room is a bedroom space purpose built as a home theater.
It has full acoustic treatment, unverified below the finish fabric but appears to be multiple inch thick foam-board, insulating drywall, and acoustic caulk. Very well done visually.
Elevated platform for second row seating. Completely carpeted.
I have verified with the door closed sound is nearly completely contained within the theater room.

There are currently 5 ceiling speakers, 2 rear wall speakers, and one sub-woofer.

The ceiling speakers are all SpeakerCraft AIM7 three's.
The ceiling speakers are arranged three across in front, two in back.
The front row of three ceiling speakers are 33" from the front wall/screen. They are located 43" from the outside wall with the center splitting the distance between the other two.
The two ceiling rear speakers are 46" from the rear wall. They are located 30" from the outside wall.

I can not verify brand/model of the rear wall speakers, but feeling the outline through the wall fabric indicates an enclosed 19-21" X 8-10" separate woofer/tweeter speaker. It seems likely these are SpeakerCraft brand.
The rear wall speakers center-line is 27" from the outside wall, and 67" from the floor.

The sub is a SpeakerCraft cinema sub 12.
The sub-woofer is located in the front left, built into the wall. This cinema 12 is in an AccuTuneBox 12, and driven by a Bass Power 250.

The listener height front left, front right, and front center channel speakers are not present but the wiring is.
I'm looking into a used set of EMP E55Ti's and E56Ci from a member here.

The budget for AVR is $1000, preferring to keep around $750.
Owing to this budget used or discontinued will be considered.
I have been considering last years models, like the Yamaha RX-A2030.

The theater use will be 50/50 satellite/dvd-bluray.
There will be little if any music streaming with this system.
The satellite connection (DirecTV genie) is already installed.

The projector is a Runco CL-420 showing a max resolution of 1080i.

There needs to be one HDMI output for another display just outside of the theater room.
This display has a max resolution of 1080i.
This display will have audio provided by an older Technics analog stereo system with four tower speakers.
The use of this system will be 70/20/10 music/satellite/game.
This display will be controlled by the same DirecTv genie as the theater.

The DVD/bluray player is a PS3.

My preliminary thought is to use four of the ceiling corner speakers as front height and side/rear surround speakers as part of a 9.1 channel array and leaving one ceiling speaker unused.
I assume I would need THX certified or Dolby Pro Logic IIz capable AVR to account for the height surrounds.
I have no idea which calibration type would be best for this approach.

I am hesitant to open up the fabric covering on the rear speakers to positively identify them.

I would like to use the existing speakers up to the point of minimally sacrificing sound quality.
I would likely go with a 5.1 system versus the expense of adding other on-axis speakers if the existing ceiling speakers are unusable.



Please recommend a suitable AVR, advise on using the ceiling speakers for surround (I have read on the inherent compromises of ceiling speakers), or educate me on any point of my plan.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Can you get us a link to some pictures?

welcome to the forum
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
I will post a diagram of the room once I have sufficient post count.
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
Can you get us a link to some pictures?

welcome to the forum
Thanks for the welcome.

I just downloaded a diagram and some pictures to post here but I lack the post count to link to them.

I hope the mods don't mind my followup posting like this to bump my count to enable linking.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Do you have any brands of avr's in mind? Do you have a specific budget in mind? Do you need subwoofers and front speakers?

answer them questions 1 post at a time and you should get there..
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
Do you have any brands of avr's in mind? Do you have a specific budget in mind? Do you need subwoofers and front speakers?

answer them questions 1 post at a time and you should get there..
Thank you,

I do have a budget in mind. I think $1000 should meet my needs.
 
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M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
Brands I am most familiar with would be Yamaha, Denon, and Pioneer.

For this application I will put a premium on reliability.
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
Here is a diagram, albeit crude, of the room to show speaker locations. The scale is off.



The sub would be located at the right lower corner facing the diagram.
 
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M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
Here are some pictures of the actual room.

Front of the room, showing the three ceiling speakers.


The back wall, where the rear speakers are covered.


Ceiling speaker, cover removed.


Showing the back wall and rear ceiling.


The AV equipment area, and mess.


The sub-woofer is located to the left of the screen, and is covered in fabric.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
OK, so I am going to imagine the 3 front ceiling speakers will be wired in as heights, the rear ceiling speakers will be surrounds and the rears will be rears, with your front 3 on the floor you will be a total of 10.1? I think that will work {minus the ceiling center, I never seen that before} but there are a few guys on here MUCH better with surround sound than me that will chime in {if not we will PM them, lol}, I am better with stereo 2.2 myself...

So you need 3 front speakers {not built in} and an AVR? You have a sub, rears, and all the ceiling speakers already in?

Is the $1000 for the speakers and avr?

Honestly there are not a ton of avr's with over 9.X channels and they get very costly I would pull the trigger on this guy for $1100 shipped DENON AVR-4520CI Denon's Flagship Home Theater Receiver 150wpc | Accessories4less its about the best avr I ever seen, pretty nice unit...

for front speakers that is an entire different story or questions...

keep the thread going and you will get more info than you know what to do with...


PS one more question, do all the speaker wires go to that one spot, and does the rest of the house have in ceiling speakers?
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
The AVR budget is 1000-ish.
I'm looking into the Denon 4520ci now.
I'm also looking at Yamaha RX-A2020/2030, some of the 9 channel Pioneers, and the other Denons now.

Having little need for the networking or streaming features I'd like to keep the cost down but so far the 9 channel AVR's will be @ 1000.

All speaker and projector wiring terminates in a recess in the room where I will locate all equipment. There is a thumbnail pic of it with "mess" in the description. There is a variable fan speed HVAC vent to pump in air at this location to keep everything cool.

There aren't any other ceiling speakers, but several outdoor speakers under a deck, in the garage... Not sure how these will be utilized yet. At some point likely run off an AVR zone or by my old Technics system to listen to ball games or get-togethers.

I'm thinking about running four of the ceiling speakers, the four corners, as high surround. I'd be using the rears, sub, and the front three (not yet purchased), for a total of 9.1 channels.
I hadn't considered running the middle ceiling for a 10.1 because I'd probably not use speakers and drop channels before adding an external amplifier for this HT. If I had the powered channels for it and could calibrate it into the mix I'd try it out.

Does anyone have advice on which calibration system would likely be the best for incorporating the ceiling speakers for surrounds?

Any opinions on noticing an improvement over a 7.1 install using two of the ceiling speakers with a 9.1 using four ceiling speakers?

Thanks,
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Any opinions on noticing an improvement over a 7.1 install using two of the ceiling speakers with a 9.1 using four ceiling speakers?

Thanks,

This is a tough one, I prefer 5.2{more subs more better} over the 7., 9., 11. ect, I tired 7 and didn't like it the rears are unnatural hard to place in some rooms {almost all rooms} and movies aren't recorded in it {its rare, there is a list somewhere and its not long at all}...

I would say sound wise, your system would sound better if you scrapped the ceiling speaker idea got a pair of surround speakers a decent front 3 and a decent 5. channel avr.... You would save a ton of money and the system would sound better for it... It would allow you to spend more on your speakers where the noticeable difference will be...

Its a tough decision, leave the speakers there not hooked up and start over or make what you have work, which will cost more and not have as good of an outcome...
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
I would say sound wise, your system would sound better if you scrapped the ceiling speaker idea got a pair of surround speakers a decent front 3 and a decent 5. channel avr.... You would save a ton of money and the system would sound better for it... It would allow you to spend more on your speakers where the noticeable difference will be...

Its a tough decision, leave the speakers there not hooked up and start over or make what you have work, which will cost more and not have as good of an outcome...
This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. It's hard to have a bird-in-hand and realize it's best to let it go and catch a different bird.

I think I'm going to go with the Denon AVR-4520CI on sale now new for right at 1,000. It should fit the bill for anything I'm likely to throw at it for several years.
I'm in contact with a member here for EMP tek E55Ti towers and E56Ci center.
That should be a nice fall back for 5.1 or 7.1, and allow me to experiment with the ceiling speakers.

Thanks for the advice given, please add anything relevant,
 
crossedover

crossedover

Audioholic Chief
This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. It's hard to have a bird-in-hand and realize it's best to let it go and catch a different bird.

I think I'm going to go with the Denon AVR-4520CI on sale now new for right at 1,000. It should fit the bill for anything I'm likely to throw at it for several years.
I'm in contact with a member here for EMP tek E55Ti towers and E56Ci center.
That should be a nice fall back for 5.1 or 7.1, and allow me to experiment with the ceiling speakers.



Thanks for the advice given, please add anything relevant,
buy quick.........
 
M

MOJoWales

Enthusiast
buy quick.........
Your prescience on buying quick was spot on. I thought it over too long on the first big seller's fire sale, but got a second big vendor's price match.

Assuming the unit survives the shipping, I'll be auditioning the 4520 early next week.

Now to narrow down the front L R and Center speakers. I'm focusing on the EMP tek's, but I have a short list of other candidates.

It should be very interesting to compare the sound with and without the ceiling speakers.

I'll follow up after I get some seat time with everything.

Please follow up here with any advice or suggestions.
 

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