Why match fronts & center?

[walter duque]

Frankly, I have just begun seriously looking at speakers like this. I never paid much attention to them because it didn't seem possible I would ever consider spending that kind of money for speakers. Far from deciding, but starting to look at MiCon Audio Evo-2, RBH T-2P, Legacy Audio Theater, Revel Studio 2.

I see you mentioned MiCon Audio Evo-2, how could you possible even know about that speaker system. I am the only one that owns the Evo-2 system on this forum.

 

[ImcLoud]

maybe he read it in your sig walter...
If I spend 10K on a pair of speakers they better look like someone spent a year making them and sound like they spent 5 years picking components and tuning the cross overs... I also better be able to talk to that guy on the phone for a few minutes, and I better like him...

 

[zieglj01]

I think he already has a pair in mind... If I was spending 10 on a pair of speakers I think it would be very hard to pass these up in high gloss SoundScape 8 I honestly can't think of anything for much more that will sound much better... then again I couldn't think of putting something so gorgeous in a home theater setup, them guys should have some really nice mono blocks stacked next to them, a nice preamp, cd player, dac, and turntable.. There should be NO tv in the same room... Unless for music videos...

The Salk looks really good - and can bring to life some musical enjoyment.

With all the artificial sound in movies - I would not spend 10k for mainly movie watching.

 

[zieglj01]

maybe he read it in your sig walter...

And, maybe read some of his posts - with his new sounding adventure, he is not trying to
keep this thing a secret.

 

[walter duque]

maybe he read it in your sig walter...
If I spend 10K on a pair of speakers they better look like someone spent a year making them and sound like they spent 5 years picking components and tuning the cross overs... I also better be able to talk to that guy on the phone for a few minutes, and I better like him...

If you would know how much that whole system cost me you would cry. If you want to know how much it cost me PM me, couldn't even post the price.

 

[walter duque]

And, maybe read some of his posts - with his new sounding adventure, he is not trying to
keep this thing a secret.

I am happy with what I have. It's not all about RBH and ATI. There are other brands that I do like, just don't have the funds for them. For speakers I would go with http://www.gamutaudio.com/ and amps http://www.powermodules.com/mb-500.html

 

[walter duque]

maybe he read it in your sig walter...
If I spend 10K on a pair of speakers they better look like someone spent a year making them and sound like they spent 5 years picking components and tuning the cross overs... I also better be able to talk to that guy on the phone for a few minutes, and I better like him...

Most likely the OEM is right in your back yard and you don't even know it. Do you live anywhere near Hartford?? Now if I would have the space I would own this http://www.cinepro.com/BFM_9-18-10_BLK.pdf I do know the guy and I do like him, he happens to be a good personal friend of mine for many years.

 

[ImcLoud]

Most likely the OEM is right in your back yard and you don't even know it. Do you live anywhere near Hartford??

I am happy with what I have. It's not all about RBH and ATI. There are other brands that I do like, just don't have the funds for them.

If you would know how much that whole system cost me you would cry. If you want to know how much it cost me PM me, couldn't even post the price.

I believe it, I have been to the cinepro website, they have a $100K+ system too.. I would have a hard time spending that kind of money with a company like cinepro, they may be HUGE, I don't know but they are not talked about much and haven't been around a super long time {maybe 10 years?}, which in its self isn't a huge issue but because they are not very popular you don't know how long they will be around, granted with any speaker company they can be gone tomorrow, but it would be nice to know if you spend $7500 on some speakers in 10 years you can get a replacement tweeter... I am in no way saying they won't be around in 10 years, I am just saying companies that are not some how in stream and being talked about its scary to invest in them....

The other thing with me is, I don't see the value in spending HUGE money on cinema speakers for HT, as long as they are clean, not fatiguing, and powerful enough for the room plug them in, and press play.... Now for music it is a different story, lets get crazy by all means....

I also understand not everyone has extra rooms where they can put a music only system, and not everyone has the funds to by a complete different setup, but when we are talking about $10K on a pair of speakers, I can't imagine that being a huge issue... Figure a pair of salks for $8K, an emotiva XPA2, a xsp1 preamp, and a decent cd player will cost under 10K, stack that rite next to your HT speakers and you won't be able to wipe the smile off... Now to run them speakers through an avr and play movies on them, and watch the news or what ever else, an angel will lose her wings... then you would be sorry...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks!...
That's what I don't understand. It's not used at all for music. But like music, I wonder how much TV/movie sound seems like it's coming from the center, but is really just well balanced l/r. I'll have to do some experiments... turn center off/down and see what still sounds like it's coming out of the TV.


That would be nice, but separate room is not an option. So if in the same room, why not a single system for double duty? And if they sound great for music, they should sound great for movies too. Right? No harm, no foul.

...!

Well, music tries to recreate a center with 2 speakers but it fails. A good prologic will let the l/r signals that are identical and in phase comes from the center channel as it should.

If you have a singer in the center, it should sound like it is coming from the center, hence a center speakers is needed for proper realistic reproduction even if you are not exactly in the center.
Yes, experiment with movies and see how much does in fact comes from the center only.

 

[walter duque]

I believe it, I have been to the cinepro website, they have a $100K+ system too.. I would have a hard time spending that kind of money with a company like cinepro, they may be HUGE, I don't know but they are not talked about much and haven't been around a super long time {maybe 10 years?}, which in its self isn't a huge issue but because they are not very popular you don't know how long they will be around, granted with any speaker company they can be gone tomorrow, but it would be nice to know if you spend $7500 on some speakers in 10 years you can get a replacement tweeter... I am in no way saying they won't be around in 10 years, I am just saying companies that are not some how in stream and being talked about its scary to invest in them....

The other thing with me is, I don't see the value in spending HUGE money on cinema speakers for HT, as long as they are clean, not fatiguing, and powerful enough for the room plug them in, and press play.... Now for music it is a different story, lets get crazy by all means....

I also understand not everyone has extra rooms where they can put a music only system, and not everyone has the funds to by a complete different setup, but when we are talking about $10K on a pair of speakers, I can't imagine that being a huge issue... Figure a pair of salks for $8K, an emotiva XPA2, a xsp1 preamp, and a decent cd player will cost under 10K, stack that rite next to your HT speakers and you won't be able to wipe the smile off... Now to run them speakers through an avr and play movies on them, and watch the news or what ever else, an angel will lose her wings... then you would be sorry...

First of all you don't know anything about that company. My first Cinepro amp I purchased around 95 which Alex (fuzz) owns now. My 3k6 I purchased in 97 (and still running strong) and the OEM for the speakers I don't worry about. As long as he is alive he will replace (for free that is) any driver or crossover, he's been around for a long time. And please do not pre-judge my system, you never experienced the ride. We're not talking about little league here. This is not equipment made in China. BTW my whole system cost me way under 10k.. That's Krell Processor, AB International 800.2, Cinepro 3k6, Cinepro 1k2, Oppo 83 and the Evo-2 system (mine are the 15" Isobaric subs) and some Verastarr cables (yeah I know Mike too) You keep the Salk's and the Emo amps, I'll keep mine. I am happy and that's all that matters. I could go for a good CD player because the OPPO 83 just don't get it when is comes to SQ. I guess I just followed the masses when I purchased that one.

 

[psbfan9]

If I spend 10K on a pair of speakers they better look like someone spent a year making them and sound like they spent 5 years picking components and tuning the cross overs... I also better be able to talk to that guy on the phone for a few minutes, and I better like him...

You mean like these?

Bamberg Audio :: Speakers for Life

Herbu, you may want to add Bamberg audio to your list. I've spoken to him and he's very humble and informative. Phil builds excellent speakers.

 

[ImcLoud]

First of all you don't know anything about that company. My first Cinepro amp I purchased around 95 which Alex (fuzz) owns now. My 3k6 I purchased in 97 (and still running strong) and the OEM for the speakers I don't worry about. As long as he is alive he will replace (for free that is) any driver or crossover, he's been around for a long time. And please do not pre-judge my system, you never experienced the ride. We're not talking about little league here. This is not equipment made in China.

I apologize if I came off as judgmental, I haven't heard the stuff and I am interested in it, but just saying my opinion a company that is a little shaky scares me... I only know what I read, the founder dies, they struggle for the name, and what ever else Cinepro - how good are they? - AVS Forum , their website says they have been around since 2002, I know the stuff made before was older but know nothing about it... As I stated in my post, not trying to argue, I am sure your system sounds fantastic, in no way was I trying to bad mouth the company or its products, current or past.. I have no experience with them, you are the only person I ever heard from that owned them....

Now where I was trying to make my point was to me, HT isn't very important, a strong sub, or pair of strong subs, a decent front end, and anything for surrounds will make me happy, I don't listen to movies loud, my system will scream with the best of them, 200w per ch 92db sens with 700watts of subwoofer it can get intense, but its not fun for me, I put it up to a good level for action movies {amazing spiderman 2 was awesome}, but I honestly don't think if I spent another $5K on my HT system it would make me any happier... I have friends that spent a lot of money on their HT's and I love when they come over and say they can't believe I only spent under $3000 with the tv, lol... If I am going to spend a lot of money on a system it will be a music only system, maybe someday if my music only system is crazy and I don't want anything better, I will get a better HT, but for now my ascends emotiva, hsu system gets me where I want to go...

Again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, not my intention at all, I was just trying to convey to the op that 10K on HT left and right is not something I personally would do...

And Walter, don't knock china, that's all some of us can afford!!! Someday I will get the self confidence up enough to spend more but I am not there yet..

 

[walter duque]

I apologize if I came off as judgmental, I haven't heard the stuff and I am interested in it, but just saying my opinion a company that is a little shaky scares me... I only know what I read, the founder dies, they struggle for the name, and what ever else Cinepro - how good are they? - AVS Forum , their website says they have been around since 2002, I know the stuff made before was older but know nothing about it... As I stated in my post, not trying to argue, I am sure your system sounds fantastic, in no way was I trying to bad mouth the company or its products, current or past.. I have no experience with them, you are the only person I ever heard from that owned them....

Now where I was trying to make my point was to me, HT isn't very important, a strong sub, or pair of strong subs, a decent front end, and anything for surrounds will make me happy, I don't listen to movies loud, my system will scream with the best of them, 200w per ch 92db sens with 700watts of subwoofer it can get intense, but its not fun for me, I put it up to a good level for action movies {amazing spiderman 2 was awesome}, but I honestly don't think if I spent another $5K on my HT system it would make me any happier... I have friends that spent a lot of money on their HT's and I love when they come over and say they can't believe I only spent under $3000 with the tv, lol... If I am going to spend a lot of money on a system it will be a music only system, maybe someday if my music only system is crazy and I don't want anything better, I will get a better HT, but for now my ascends emotiva, hsu system gets me where I want to go...

Again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, not my intention at all, I was just trying to convey to the op that 10K on HT left and right is not something I personally would do...

And Walter, don't knock china, that's all some of us can afford!!! Someday I will get the self confidence up enough to spend more but I am not there yet..

We all get carried away at times and some of us do like to stick to brands that we know and are comfortable with. I enjoyed the JSE Infinite Slope speakers from John (over 20 years ago) as I do enjoy the Evo-2 system, kind of makes me feel good and that's what this sickness is all about. Then again the high doesn't last for ever, there is always something better. Sonus Faber Stradivarius are coming to my mind now too. You might like a BMW or Mercedes (had them been there) I'll stick to my Lexus.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You keep the Salk's and the Emo amps, I'll keep mine. I am happy and that's all that matters.

Exactly. Whatever sounds best. Salk is good for someone. RBH is good for someone. Revel, KEF, B&W, etc., is good for someone. There is a loudspeaker and amp system for everyone.

Just like you, Rich, and I love Lexus, but others may love Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Land Rover, Porsche, etc.

 

[PENG]

Well, music tries to recreate a center with 2 speakers but it fails. A good prologic will let the l/r signals that are identical and in phase comes from the center channel as it should.

If you have a singer in the center, it should sound like it is coming from the center, hence a center speakers is needed for proper realistic reproduction even if you are not exactly in the center.
Yes, experiment with movies and see how much does in fact comes from the center only.

It depends, most of my systems over the year have had no trouble making the sound like it is coming from the center as long as I sat in the middle and I am talking about stereo music.

 

[herbu]

Why is it important that you buy 10k speakers? You may be able to find some real serious good sounding speakers for less,
that can out perform some 10K range speakers.

Thanks for all the input, guys.
$10k is an arbitrary number. I like my Aperions, and honestly, when I bought them I figured they would be the last speakers I would ever buy, and cost way more than I ever thought I would spend on speakers. I think they sound great for music and movies. They fit the room, they work well with my components, my wife tolerates 4 of them in the room, along w/ the 2 big subs. All is peaceful, harmonious, done and done.

BUT, simply put, I got the bug and a little disposable cash in my discretionary fund. (We learned some time ago that single combined bank accounts and budget were a problem. I'm a spender. My wife is a saver. I handle the investments. She handles the budget. It works well, but I was frequently trying to convince her I needed X$ out of the budget for some toy. So we set up individual discretionary accounts, and we each get an allowance deposited into our accounts. We can each spend that money at our discretion without affecting the budget. I can save for a while, but then start to itch... and have to scratch.)

So now I'm thinking about scratching some speakers. These will be the last speakers I buy. Ever. Really. The $10k range is just what I suppose is enough to get a significant improvement from the Aperions, and enough that the next significant improvement, (8Ts?), really is more than I will ever be willing to spend.

I still don't understand going the route of a separate music system. If I have premium l/rs for music, why not simply use them for tv/movies also? Maybe I upgrade the center, maybe not. I think 4x Aperions Grand Towers for l/r & rear surrounds is plenty for me.

There is a custom audio shop near me that is an RBH dealer. Don't know if they carry any stock or not. Need to call them. And need to investigate the other brands suggested here. Walter, yes, I looked at your system. I appreciate all the comments from members here. But in addition to someone's comments, it's interesting to see how they spent their own money.

Thanks again, guys. Have a lot of homework to do.

 

[walter duque]

Exactly. Whatever sounds best. Salk is good for someone. RBH is good for someone. Revel, KEF, B&W, etc., is good for someone. There is a loudspeaker and amp system for everyone.

Just like you, Rich, and I love Lexus, but others may love Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Land Rover, Porsche, etc.

There is so much good equipment out there and I say to each it's own. As crazy as it might sound but my Tannoy Jaguars (which I recently sold and where build in the early 80) sounded way better than my Evo's. For the money to me the Phil'3 can't be beat. I have listened to them a few times at Alex's and I was amazed how good they sound and are quality build (besides I just like the way they look too). You sold yours for whatever reason, but to me they would be a keeper. This is how we all differ of what we prefer. Your speaker collection was nothing short of amazing, I just can't figure out this RBH thing with you, that one got me puzzled.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It depends, most of my systems over the year have had no trouble making the sound like it is coming from the center as long as I sat in the middle and I am talking about stereo music.

Isn't that the truth with just about everything. Those 2 words - "It Depends".

I've been using nothing more than a pair of Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 in my system since I'm still waiting for my new RBH speakers. So for over 4 or 5 weeks now, my system is only 2Ch. I think discrete 5.1 (TrueHD, DTS-HD) with great speakers is best. But I also think a great 2Ch system is better than most Dolby Pro-Logic setup.

I've tried Pro-Logic many times when I still had my old system. Some movie soundtracks are better than other. But I still always preferred 2Ch over Pro-Logic in the end.

"Everyone is different" and "it depends".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is so much good equipment out there and I say to each it's own. As crazy as it might sound but my Tannoy Jaguars (which I recently sold and where build in the early 80) sounded way better than my Evo's. For the money to me the Phil'3 can't be beat. I have listened to them a few times at Alex's and I was amazed how good they sound and are quality build (besides I just like the way they look too). You sold yours for whatever reason, but to me they would be a keeper. This is how we all differ of what we prefer. Your speaker collection was nothing short of amazing, I just can't figure out this RBH thing with you, that one got me puzzled.

We all try out many speakers and amps and processors throughout the years.

In the end, it comes down to perceived sound quality to our own ears. Cost doesn't guarantee that. Popularity or forum hype or what others like definitely doesn't guarantee that.

Yeah, I took a big loss on my Phil3 just like I took a big loss on my Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2 and everything I sold. I'm sure the guys I sold my speakers too are quite happy.

But all those speakers just didn't fit me. They may fit others perfectly. But they just didn't fit me.

Of course, you know that Gene loved the RBH T2 back then. He owned them. Then he loved the RBH T30 (which is the single cabinet version of the T2/R). He also owned the T30. And now he owns the 8T. The SX-T2/R may only be 90% of the 8T in SQ, but I think the SX-T2/R is 110% of most speakers I've ever heard in my life.

In the end when all is said and done, it's all about what sounds best to our own ears. Everyone is different.

 

[ImcLoud]

It is all up to our own ears, I heard the psb imagine t2's and was floored, some of that may have been because after listening to so many speakers I thought I knew what they were going to sound like and then they ended up being amazing... The first time I heard them I said when a set for $1500 comes up in a few months I am going to buy them, problem is they haven't dropped much, lol...

Some guys love Revel, I don't hear it.. I am not a fan of them, some guys love the high end kefs, I don't hear it, they sound good, but not good enough to warrant the cost... Now Sonus speakers, seem to give you everything, the sound in some series is just amazing, the look, the attention to detail, shapes and overall presentation is just class A stuff... But you pay for it for sure.. B&W has some hit and misses, I don't know why but some speakers sound good, like the 802d2's to me sound really nice and for the price there seems to be a lot of technology there, although for that price I can't get away from the salks...

All I know is that if I was dropping 10K on a pair of speakers I would have to EVERY speaker in the price range, new and used...

As far as stereo goes, every pair of stereo speakers I own sound like the music is coming from the center...