Room EQ systems for AVP/AVR users thread

[Irvrobinson]

While testing my drivers to identify the Salon1's cooked mid-range, Irv suggested playing tones to isolate the driver.
I played a 40hz tone and the Nulls were really amazing.

Luckily, there was not problem where I sit but there were points were there was almost no sound.

It is interesting but this is one aspect that room correct cannot fix.

- Rich

This is the argument for using subwoofers even with speakers that are powerful to below 30Hz. You need to either strategically place the sub, or use multiple subs apart from the mains so that you get in-room smoothing from the multiple bass sources. You also need a means to EQ the subs so that they don't "pile on" where the room is providing gain rather than loss. With just the Salon2s placed for best imaging and smoothest midrange and highs I had one heck of a bass smoothness problem.

I was going to try a DEQX unit in my system a couple of years ago, but ended up not doing it because I achieved satisfactory results without one. When I was considering a DEQX I exchanged emails with several DEQX owners, and they were all thrilled with the results. One oddity, all three owners I exchanged email with had chosen speakers I consciously decided not to own (B&W 800D, Wilson Sasha, Krell Resolution). All three are speakers I've always felt needed a little adjustment above about 200Hz. It made me wonder if DEQX was a good buyers remorse fixer.

 

[RichB]

Like this, note DEQ compensates less and less as frequency increases.

View attachment 13832

As PENG says, it's an adaptive smart DYNAMIC boost, not an overall boost to every single frequency and every single level. It's not dynamic VOLUME.

But my POV is, it doesn't matter to me that a room correction software can make the frequency response ruler flat to +/- 0.00dB if it does NOT sound GREAT.

Audyssey XT32 & Pro are there to make the frequency flat and smooth.

But Dynamic EQ is there to make the sound GREAT.

I am not down on DEQ but PENG's measurements did show an overall boost of every single frequency.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am not down on DEQ but PENG's measurements did show an overall boost of every single frequency.

- Rich

Decrease the master volume by 6dB (like from -20.0 to -26.0) and it is no longer a boost of every single frequency on the graph from 14Hz - 150Hz.

Or decrease the trim level (speaker channel level) by 6dB and it is no longer a boost of every single frequency on the graph from 14Hz - 150Hz.

 

[PENG]

I am not down on DEQ but PENG's measurements did show an overall boost of every single frequency.

- Rich

I thought my graphs show 14 to 150 Hz only. It does show the boost decreases as frequency increases and as ADTG explained the magnitude of boost also varies with volume level but that would be hard to show in a simple 2-D graph.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought my graphs show 14 to 150 Hz only.

Yes it does.

 

[RichB]

I thought my graphs show 14 to 150 Hz only. It does show the boost decreases as frequency increases and as ADTG explained the magnitude of boost also varies with volume level but that would be hard to show in a simple 2-D graph.

OK, my bad, I thought was a full frequency sweep. Never mind

- Rich

 

[PENG]

OK, my bad, I thought was a full frequency sweep. Never mind

- Rich

I did do a full sweep but forgot to save the file. I will do it again this weekend.

 

[PENG]

OK, my bad, I thought was a full frequency sweep. Never mind

- Rich

Front left channel, Energy Veritas 2.3i, set to large.

View attachment 13850

It mostly boosts the low frequencies but it does it to the higher frequencies too, just not near as much. I don't know why there is a dip at 200 Hz.

 

[rnatalli]

Perhaps 200hz is where human ears are most sensitive so no need to boost. Is there a doctor or scientist in the house?

 

[PENG]

Perhaps 200hz is where human ears are most sensitive so no need to boost. Is there a doctor or scientist in the house?

That is a dip in the FR of the speaker in my room. DEQ only boost according by the doctor/scientist's data on human hearing characteristics and is applied after Audyssey XT/XT32 has done its room EQ. The graph belows shows Audyssey Flat On versus Off, with DEQ Off. You can see that Audyssey did a great job flattening the bass and even the highs but could not totally fix the dip towards 200 Hz. It could be the averaging (they call it the bubble) effect such that if it fixed it then the secondary seating positions would suffer greatly. I wish I could still emaill Professor Chris D but it seems that he has no delegated to his support team and no longer answer questions himself.

REW confirms why in the past I could not hear much difference between Audyssey on and off. The speakers in my room has relatively flat response from 200 to 10K. Actually it was much better before when they were further apart and I could angle them to converge to my seating position. The Audyssey graphs used to be virtually flat, with 1 to 2 dB adjustments at the most. To make room for the PB13U I have no choice but to sacrifice their optimal positions and they are no longer far apart enough to be angled properly. Good thing this system is mainly for movies so that's okay as long as the bass is good. The slight loss in the high frequencies in their current positions is obvously the reason why I could now hear a little bit of difference with Audyssey on, i.e. it sounds slightly brighter depending on the contents.

 

[GIEGAR]

Perhaps 200hz is where human ears are most sensitive so no need to boost. Is there a doctor or scientist in the house?

I'm neither of those, but I'll have a crack at it.

The human hearing system has fairly uniform good sensitivity in the midrange frequencies between about 500Hz - 2kHz. Sensitivity then rises to its highest in the high mids at around 3 - 4kHz before dropping off again as frequency rises towards 10kHz.

This tool brings it all together quite nicely: Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

REW confirms why in the past I could not hear much difference between Audyssey on and off.

I think I preferred Audyssey Flat over Audyssey Reference, but I could never tell the difference between Audyssey Flat vs Audyssey Off.

 

[PENG]

I think I preferred Audyssey Flat over Audyssey Reference, but I could never tell the difference between Audyssey Flat vs Audyssey Off.

Audyssey flat will be like Direct if your room does not EQ. I think most room needs the bass EQ but not every room needs the higher frequencies EQ'ed. For those that don't need it, Audyssey flat will in theory, leave them alone.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Audyssey flat will be like Direct if your room does not EQ. I think most room needs the bass EQ but not every room needs the higher frequencies EQ'ed. For those that don't need it, Audyssey flat will in theory, leave them alone.

I just noticed that DEQ + Audyssey Flat makes the frequency response flatter between 10kHz-18kHz, whereas Audyssey Flat without DEQ tapers the frequencies beyond 10kHz. So the bass is more enhanced and the upper treble is also enhanced as you mentioned. What can I say? I love DEQ.

 

[PENG]

I just noticed that DEQ + Audyssey Flat makes the frequency response flatter between 10kHz-18kHz, whereas Audyssey Flat without DEQ tapers the frequencies beyond 10kHz. So the bass is more enhanced and the upper treble is also enhanced as you mentioned. What can I say? I love DEQ.

Yes, that is how DEQ work, it compensates a little in the high frequency range as well but please note that the graph I posted was specifically for my Veritas 2.3i in my room. I expect yours would be similar in relative sense but not in absolute sense.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, that is how DEQ work, it compensates a little in the high frequency range as well but please note that the graph I posted was specifically for my Veritas 2.3i in my room. I expect yours would be similar in relative sense but not in absolute sense.

One day I may be willing to spend $95 on the miniDSP microphone Fuzz mentioned and actually measure my room and speakers.

Way too lazy right now. Probably need instructions for dummies on REW + miniDSP Mic.

 

[PENG]

One day I may be willing to spend $95 on the miniDSP microphone Fuzz mentioned and actually measure my room and speakers.

Way too lazy right now. Probably need instructions for dummies on REW + miniDSP Mic.

I was too lazy to do it too until I realized the miniDSP Mic had build in sound card so all you need is a long HDMI cable and good to go. You can be up and running within minutes if you read the very short instructions on the miniDSP website. If you buy it from Hong Kong, it costs USD 75 plus shipping. I ordered it on Monday, got it on Friday, and my first graph the next day. It makes fine tuning the subs locations much quicker.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To get things rolling again.

These are just examples found online.

Lyngdorf RoomPerfect. Blue is Pure Direct:


Dirac. Blue is Pure Direct:


Trinnov. Yellow is Pure Direct:



Yamaha YPAO. Red is Pure Direct:



Anthem ARC. Red is Pure Direct. Green is ARC:



Audyssey. Red is Pure Direct:




Pioneer MCACC. Red is Pure Direct:

 

[PENG]

To get things rolling again.

These are just examples found online.

Lyngdorf RoomPerfect. Blue is Pure Direct:


Dirac. Blue is Pure Direct:


Trinnov. Yellow is Pure Direct:



Yamaha YPAO. Red is Pure Direct:



Anthem ARC. Red is Pure Direct. Green is ARC:



Audyssey. Red is Pure Direct:




Pioneer MCACC. Red is Pure Direct:

Those are obviously from different systems, at least different AVP/AVRs so it is hard to compare. If we look at the effects or magnitude of the correction, then I would bet ARC and Audyssey were top in that group.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was too lazy to do it too until I realized the miniDSP Mic had build in sound card so all you need is a long HDMI cable and good to go. You can be up and running within minutes if you read the very short instructions on the miniDSP website. If you buy it from Hong Kong, it costs USD 75 plus shipping. I ordered it on Monday, got it on Friday, and my first graph the next day. It makes fine tuning the subs locations much quicker.

So the miniDSP mic goes into the USB, HDMI from PC to Pre-pro? Turn on pre-pro and select the Input for the HDMI (like PC). Then how do you set the REW? Input ? Output? What else?

If it is EXTREMELY simple and dummie-proof, I may just do it.