How can I improve music listening with what we already have?

[markw]

After you decide on your speakers, I would get adjustable height speaker stands that can carry the weight of your speakers and place them on either side of the fire place and move the equipment stand to the left hand side of the fireplace. This is my secondary system in teh family room. That's how I tackled the problem.

Assuming you're going with bookshelf/stand-mount speakers, this would be your best solution.

f you post a price range, perhaps you can get more speaker options within your range.

As for home auditions, most ID sellers offer liberal return policies and as for local B&M stores, if you charge 'em you shouldn't have a problem returning them if you don't like them at home. They'll simply issue a credit. Verify with the dealer how long you have to decide first.

 

[Potstickr]

After you decide on your speakers, I would get adjustable height speaker stands that can carry the weight of your speakers and place them on either side of the fire place and move the equipment stand to the left hand side of the fireplace. This is my secondary system in teh family room. That's how I tackled the problem.

Thank you, 3db! Adjustable speaker stands...brilliant!

 

[zieglj01]

f you post a price range, perhaps you can get more speaker options within your range.

From the origional post $400/$500

 

[Potstickr]

Zieglj01, you're right that I won't be staring at the speakers when dancing, but I noticed that with our current speakers there's a noticeable hollowness if the speakers are not at ear level when listening to music while standing. Strangely, placing the L and R speakers a foot higher than center speaker didn't seem to affect listening when seated, but greatly improved listening while standing.

I hear what everyone else is saying about needing to supersize to bookshelves and look forward to auditioning a few of the recommended models. Question: Should I rerun Audyssey every time I connect new speakers or change speaker placement? Thank you.

 

[zieglj01]

Zieglj01, you're right that I won't be staring at the speakers when dancing, but I noticed that with our current speakers there's a noticeable hollowness if the speakers are not at ear level when listening to music while standing. Strangely, placing the L and R speakers a foot higher than center speaker didn't seem to affect listening when seated, but greatly improved listening while standing.

I hear what everyone else is saying about needing to supersize to bookshelves and look forward to auditioning a few of the recommended models. Question: Should I rerun Audyssey every time I connect new speakers or change speaker placement? Thank you.

A lot of that is due to the small speakers you own, and your room size. Your small speakers do lack
power and range.

Bigger speakers with better frequency response and that can throw a nice radiation soundstage, will
make a difference.

Now when you get your new speakers - place them about half-way height wise (compromise), from where
you sit and when you are dancing - you will notice a difference.

Now if you want to rerun Audyssey all the time - then just keep switching them (up and down/high and low).

 

[Potstickr]

If I go with new bookshelves, do I still pair them with the existing Energy subwoofer? Or would the tone or character of the speakers and sub be "incompatible"? Should I just live sub-less until funds become available to grow the system?

Also, I just got back from running errands and realized our minivan has 6" speakers (probably) in the door panels. I shouldn't compare them to the 6" drivers in the bookshelves, correct? I would assume they're not really in the same league or conversation. Was just trying to imagine what to expect from bigger bookshelves, but I guess I will have to wait until I have them in hand (or have a chance to visit a quality audio store). Thank you, everyone, I'm always grateful for the education.

 

[markw]

6" speakers in a car sound a lot bigger than 6" speakers in a living room. Yes, you'll want a real subwoofer.

 

[3db]

+1 on what Markw says. What is the make and model number of the sub? Energy made some decent 12" subs in the past that offered good bang for the buck. However, I would steer you to subs from Rythmik, SVS, HSU, and Outlaw, all internet brands. I have a Rythmik LV12R which performs well above expectations for an entry level sub.

 

[Potstickr]

Hi 3db, the sub came with the speakers as a set, Energy model ESW-8. To me, the 8" produces more than enough bass. Would a 12" be too boomy or is it more about effortless, quality bass? I also suspect the corner placement of the sub isn't ideal, but I need to find an extension cord before I can try the bass crawling technique. (Yet yours is also placed in a corner, so maybe it's ok for us too. I don't know enough to say if our placement is correct or not in our room.)

Also, the little Take Classic speakers use exotic-sounding materials, such as "poly-titanium woofer". Some of the bookshelves use less impressive-sounding materials, no pun intended, such as paper. I have tried researching a little on my own and learned diaphragms are usually paper, plastic, or metal.

Paper sounds so low-tech and basic. I keep imagining a speaker made out of printer paper. The visual is not very inspiring and doesn't seem very rugged or durable. Am I thinking about a paper diaphragm in a completely wrong way?

I suppose hearing is believing when some new bookshelves arrive. I plan to place an order this weekend. Thank you.

 

[Potstickr]

It would be challenging to audition the NHT/JBL/AA one at a time because I may not accurate recall what the last pair sounded like when I return it. I am considering ordering all three brands at once and do a back-to-back-to-back comparison. In this scenario, how would other conduce the comparison? Would you quickly swap out the speakers, while maintaining the exact same placement and volume, and replay the same music track (or mix of tracks)? Or would I need to re-run Audyssey for each speaker change? Audyssey is a little cumbersome to run if I have to do it every time I go back and forth between speakers (considering I also unplug the fridge, turn off A/C, etc.).

If I run Audyssey just once with the first pair of bookshelves to get distances and rely on the same settings for other brands of speakers, would that still allow me to conduct a fair comparison?

 

[3db]

Hi 3db, the sub came with the speakers as a set, Energy model ESW-8. To me, the 8" produces more than enough bass. Would a 12" be too boomy or is it more about effortless, quality bass? I also suspect the corner placement of the sub isn't ideal, but I need to find an extension cord before I can try the bass crawling technique. (Yet yours is also placed in a corner, so maybe it's ok for us too. I don't know enough to say if our placement is correct or not in our room.)

Also, the little Take Classic speakers use exotic-sounding materials, such as "poly-titanium woofer". Some of the bookshelves use less impressive-sounding materials, no pun intended, such as paper. I have tried researching a little on my own and learned diaphragms are usually paper, plastic, or metal.

Paper sounds so low-tech and basic. I keep imagining a speaker made out of printer paper. The visual is not very inspiring and doesn't seem very rugged or durable. Am I thinking about a paper diaphragm in a completely wrong way?

I suppose hearing is believing when some new bookshelves arrive. I plan to place an order this weekend. Thank you.

I thought paper was low tech too until I got the Rythmik...The sound is far from low tech..accurate fast and very deep is how I would characterize it. If I were you, I would get the speakers and the room layout buttoned down first. Then you can adjust sub location with your existing sub to see if you can get it dialed in the way you want.

Based on this review, Energy Take Classic Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision , your sub goes down to about 30Hz which is good for most music. However, there is a lot deeper in bass in movie soundtracks, hence the subwoofer recomendations.

 

[zieglj01]

Also, the little Take Classic speakers use exotic-sounding materials, such as "poly-titanium woofer". Some of the bookshelves use less impressive-sounding materials, no pun intended, such as paper. I have tried researching a little on my own and learned diaphragms are usually paper, plastic, or metal.

Paper sounds so low-tech and basic. I keep imagining a speaker made out of printer paper.

It would be challenging to audition the NHT/JBL/AA one at a time because I may not accurate recall what the last pair sounded like when I return it. I am considering ordering all three brands at once and do a back-to-back-to-back comparison. In this scenario, how would other conduce the comparison?

Or would I need to re-run Audyssey for each speaker change? Audyssey is a little cumbersome to run if I have to do it every time I go back and forth between speakers (considering I also unplug the fridge, turn off A/C, etc.)

1) It does not matter what drivers are made of to get good sound - paper is not low-tech - do not try
to judge the perception of sound by make-up materials. The design and engineer of the speaker as a
whole is what counts. I have owned many speakers with all types of driver materials - and some of the
best ones had paper woofer cones. Note: you are over thinking!

2) As far as judging speakers, and since you are thinking about paper - well, get some pin and paper
then play the speakers one at a time - play a few of your favorite songs - and then take notes about
the sonic character and timbre (voice tone) of each speaker.

3) For me, I do not need to rely on Audyssey to help me to evaluate whether a speaker is good or not.
A good speaker will have the quality and design/engineering, to be a good speaker on its on for testing.
However, your call.

4)You are spinning around on a merry-go-round with all the reading and thinking - I would order some
speakers and do the live audition - the sound will speak for its self.

 

[Potstickr]

Thank you Zieglj01 and 3db, I will stop wondering about the what-ifs and will instead take action to sit down in front of said speakers and actually listen/experience them first-hand. Many thanks!

 

[3db]

Thank you Zieglj01 and 3db, I will stop wondering about the what-ifs and will instead take action to sit down in front of said speakers and actually listen/experience them first-hand. Many thanks!

I would like to add that I would leave out the room correction whiile auditioning the speakers. Use music you are very familiar with.


What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooth that made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles a lot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The speciality stores are better setup acoustically then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when auditioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off; when auditioning speakers, make sure the volume levels are matched between the different speaker pairs because the louder speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you would listen to most of the time because that’s how you are going to be using them most of the time.

 

[Potstickr]

Just wanted to come back and share an update. Our Denon receiver died a week ago (after only 6 years of use). My Dad's Yamaha receiver is literally decades old and still going strong. Decided to take advantage of an Amazon deal for half off of a Yamaha RX-V675. Also took this opportunity to finally listen to the advice from everyone and upgrade our speakers. Ultimately, due to compromise, we now have a new set of NHT SuperZero 2.1 speakers, paired with the old Energy ESW-8 sub from the Take Classics bundle.

At first, I went with a Vizio s5451w-c2 soundbar due to cost, wireless surround speakers, and it sounding the best (of the in-store soundbars). Once we got it home, it wasn't too bad and still better than just TV speakers (at the time our receiver was no longer working and I wasn't sure about getting another one). After a few days of music listening and watching blurays, I noticed the sound just wasn't as clean as the Take Classics and sometimes I just wanted to turn the soundbar off and stop listening altogether. Furthermore, I started not to care about the Vizio's 5.1 and preferred the old 3.1 setup we had with the Energy speakers.

Basically, we needed a new receiver. Although we only have the NHTs setup in stereo, I prefer the cleaner sound much more over 5.1 and am starting to become more curious about lossless audio formats, such as WAV and FLAC. Currently, we stream music from Amazon, Google, and from our collection of MP3s. The speakers sound marvelous. I am not skilled enough to tell if they're a lot better than the Take Classics, but the NHTs definitely fill the room better, as other posters suggested larger speakers would. What I do notice though is that the SuperZeroes make me want to listen to more music and the sound doesn't tire me out. I still love to watch movies, but feel I can do without surround sound...especially since our couch is right up against the wall. Perhaps over time I'll upgrade the sub and add in a center channel. For now I'm quite pleased with the stereo setup and am grateful for everyone's advice and guidance last year.

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks for checking back in - and continue to enjoy!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

NTIM but: WAV is not lossless - it's uncompressed, original RAW digital information - aka no quality losses are possible FLAC/ALAC/APE and even WMA Lossless * are lossless codecs which DO compress audio files, but able to decode it to exact original signal. True to every bit.

 

[Potstickr]

I hope I can describe this clearly...

One song my wife and I are familiar with is Beyonce's Halo. I have listened to the song through headphones, in the car, and with my phone's speakers and nothing really caught my attention before. However, with the new SuperZeroes, about 34 seconds into the song when Beyonce sings "...they didn't even make a sound", what I hear is "sa-owe------nd". With the NHTs it's as if Beyonce couldn't go low enough in the register and there is a gap or silence between the second and third "syllable" of "sound". Music still plays on so it is not a case of all speakers/sub cutting out. Do I not have my settings correct? Or is it the NHTs are playing more honestly and this is the first time I am hearing the nuances of the singer's voice? Granted, the YouTube link is not an example of great audio quailty, but I distinctly hear a difference through Amazon streaming. The exact point of the lyric sounds continuous on other listening devices and radio...no gap or drop off. It isn't that I prefer the sound through headphones or in the car, it just seems the lyric is more continous and without a pause in Beyonce's singing style at that juncture of the song.

I am listening to "2ch stereo" mode and not using any other simulated modes. I have not run YPAO from the receiver yet because I am waiting for the right time to get the family out of the house so everything is completely quiet. I manually have the speakers at small, distances set similar to readings from previous receiver, and crossover at 100Hz.

I realize I may be making too much out of something, but it's actually part of my growing appreciation for better sound quality. There isn't really a "problem to solve", I suppose I am just looking for more/better insight from those more experienced with hifi audio. I enjoy the speakers very much and it has only been 24 hours. I am hearing new things with old music and I don't know if that's normal. Thank you.

 

[witchdoctor]

I would start with a pair of bookshelf speakers

JBL Studio 230 speakers
http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Studio-23...54281&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+studio+230+speakers

I agree, I own the JBL 230's and they sound great both on movies and music. I posted a review of them here in the Speakers Forum:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/jbl-studio-230-bookshelf-speaker-review.93334/

 

[KEW]

I hope I can describe this clearly...

One song my wife and I are familiar with is Beyonce's Halo. I have listened to the song through headphones, in the car, and with my phone's speakers and nothing really caught my attention before. However, with the new SuperZeroes, about 34 seconds into the song when Beyonce sings "...they didn't even make a sound", what I hear is "sa-owe------nd". With the NHTs it's as if Beyonce couldn't go low enough in the register and there is a gap or silence between the second and third "syllable" of "sound". Music still plays on so it is not a case of all speakers/sub cutting out. Do I not have my settings correct? Or is it the NHTs are playing more honestly and this is the first time I am hearing the nuances of the singer's voice? Granted, the YouTube link is not an example of great audio quailty, but I distinctly hear a difference through Amazon streaming. The exact point of the lyric sounds continuous on other listening devices and radio...no gap or drop off. It isn't that I prefer the sound through headphones or in the car, it just seems the lyric is more continous and without a pause in Beyonce's singing style at that juncture of the song.

I am listening to "2ch stereo" mode and not using any other simulated modes. I have not run YPAO from the receiver yet because I am waiting for the right time to get the family out of the house so everything is completely quiet. I manually have the speakers at small, distances set similar to readings from previous receiver, and crossover at 100Hz.

I realize I may be making too much out of something, but it's actually part of my growing appreciation for better sound quality. There isn't really a "problem to solve", I suppose I am just looking for more/better insight from those more experienced with hifi audio. I enjoy the speakers very much and it has only been 24 hours. I am hearing new things with old music and I don't know if that's normal. Thank you.

My first thought is that the youtube file has the error in it. Are you listening to the same source with the headphones, car, etc?

Hopefully someone here has that tune available and can listen for the same glitch.