RBH Sound SX-1212P/R Subwoofer Review

Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I'm with ADTG here, Proper sub EQ is not rocket science. If one is adventurous enough to got with outboard amp, might as well throw in mini dsp, measuring mic and few hours of making horrible noises :)
One could EQ for the driver/box, but external EQ could adjust for the room, which is something most subs lack - or at least not very granular
If you have some bucks to spare, auto eq systems are easily available.

SheepStar
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
All subwoofers are by definition "active" because the crossover comes BEFORE the amplifier.

Just because the amp is external does NOT make the subwoofer or speaker PASSIVE.
The nomenclature in this case is powered vs passive, both of which you will find when glancing at the specs of the RBH SX-1212P/R and SX-1212N/R.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm with ADTG here, Proper sub EQ is not rocket science. If one is adventurous enough to got with outboard amp, might as well throw in mini dsp, measuring mic and few hours of making horrible noises :)
One could EQ for the driver/box, but external EQ could adjust for the room, which is something most subs lack - or at least not very granular
I also think most subwoofers lack features like room EQ, Dynamic EQ, and Sub EQ.

Perhaps the debate is whether Velodyne (or other manufacturers) does a better job with Subwoofer EQ, Room Correction EQ, and Dynamic EQ than Audyssey.

I would take Audyssey any day, but that's just me. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The nomenclature in this case is powered vs passive, both of which you will find when glancing at the specs of the RBH SX-1212P/R and SX-1212N/R.
No, the P = Powered, the N = Non-powered.

SX-1212N vs SX-1212P

SX-1212 Non-powered vs SX-1212 Powered.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Look closer :p
Semantics debate. :D

Well, the N = Non-powered. The P = Powered.

But since most people are so used to "passive", non-powered = passive.

But it is more correct to say "non-powered", instead of passive. An external outboard XO/amp will turn the non-powered subwoofer into an active subwoofer.

For example, the external outboard DSP/EQ/XO/Amp is used to turn the Funk 18.2 subwoofer into an ACTIVE sub.

The external ASP/XO + Amp is used to turn the Linkwitz Orion into an ACTIVE speaker.

Do you guys want to debate that the Funk 18.2 subwoofer is PASSIVE when combined with the included DSP/EQ/XO/Amp? :D
 
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Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Do you guys want to debate that the Funk 18.2 subwoofer is PASSIVE when combined with the included DSP/EQ/XO/Amp?
No, but then again, Funk is providing those things as part of a larger package. RBH is just selling the cabinet and drivers, i.e. passive components. Look at it another way: is a Bose cube an active speaker? It has no internal XO, and you use bass management for the high pass crossover. Heck, they even use two drivers and curved cabinets like the SX-1212N/R :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
No, but then again, Funk is providing those things as part of a larger package. RBH is just selling the cabinet and drivers, i.e. passive components.
No, RBH sells the SA-500DSP amp (DSP/EQ/XO/Amp) to go along with the subwoofers too.

So, sure, RBH "provides" all those things as part of a larger package if you want to pay for it. :D

RBH SA-500DSP Subwoofer Amplifier
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
No, that's not what that means.
It means that if I ever sell my 2 Orion towers, I will have room for 2 RBH SX-1212N/R. ;) :D

Data-Bass Subwoofer Performance (2 Meters) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
Velodyne DD18+: 103/113/116/117/115<O:p</O:p
Hsu VTF-15H: 104/113/116/116/116
Funk 18.0: 104/115/120/121/122<O:p</O:p

Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106/110/113/117/120<O:p</O:p
Funk FW12X: 107/112/114/114/113
SVS PB12+: 107/112/114/115/115<O:p</O:p

Rythmik FV15HP: 108/117/120/119/119
SVS PB13 Ultra: 111/116/118/118/117
RBH SX-1212/R: 113/117/121/120/121
 
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B

Basshead81

Audioholic
It means that if I ever sell my 2 Orion towers, I will have room for 2 RBH SX-1212N/R. ;) :D

Data-Bass Subwoofer Performance (2 Meters) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
Velodyne DD18+: 103/113/116/117/115<O:p</O:p
Hsu VTF-15H: 104/113/116/116/116
Funk 18.0: 104/115/120/121/122<O:p</O:p

Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106/110/113/117/120<O:p</O:p
Funk FW12X: 107/112/114/114/113
SVS PB12+: 107/112/114/115/115<O:p</O:p

Rythmik FV15HP: 108/117/120/119/119
SVS PB13 Ultra: 111/116/118/118/117
RBH SX-1212/R: 113/117/121/120/121
Great numbers but It still seems pricey. For 5300.00 that is. I would rather have a pair of Rythmik FV15HP's for 26xx.00 shipped and they would outperform the RBH while offering a potential smoother response. Even if you go passive it is still going to take a solid amp to get those numbers the speaker power delivers. No cheap pro audio amp is going to come close. You can literally weld with those speaker power amps...the only thng better is probably the powersoft stuff.

Also anybody notice the rather high group delay and pontential ringing issues around the 25hz region?

Not knocking but I just think 5300.00 is a bit steep, 3k seems more realistic.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Great numbers but It still seems pricey. For 5300.00 that is. I would rather have a pair of Rythmik FV15HP's for 26xx.00 shipped and they would outperform the RBH while offering a potential smoother response. Even if you go passive it is still going to take a solid amp to get those numbers the speaker power delivers. No cheap pro audio amp is going to come close. You can literally weld with those speaker power amps...the only thng better is probably the powersoft stuff.

Also anybody notice the rather high group delay and pontential ringing issues around the 25hz region?

Not knocking but I just think 5300.00 is a bit steep, 3k seems more realistic.
How does the Rythmik outperform the RBH?

Rythmik FV15HP : 90/102/108/117/120/119/119 dB @ 13/16/20/32/40/50/63 Hz
RBH SX-1212/R: 100/108/113/117/121/120/121 dB
@ 13/16/20/32/40/50/63 Hz

But I probably won't buy any subs since I just don't need them. :D
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
He did say a pair of FV15HPs :D With a pair, you should get 3~6 dB more.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
He did say a pair of FV15HPs :D With a pair, you should get 3~6 dB more.
Yeah, I think if stacked, you get 6dB, if on opposite sides of the room you get 3dB with each additional sub or something like that?
 
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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Great numbers but It still seems pricey. For 5300.00 that is. I would rather have a pair of Rythmik FV15HP's for 26xx.00 shipped and they would outperform the RBH while offering a potential smoother response. Even if you go passive it is still going to take a solid amp to get those numbers the speaker power delivers. No cheap pro audio amp is going to come close. You can literally weld with those speaker power amps...the only thng better is probably the powersoft stuff.
RBH speakers are sold through B&M dealers, which means they are most likely sold at a discount. ID speaker prices simply are what's posted, so comparisons are not as clear as MSRPs make them seem. I don't know what typical RBH discounts are at B&M dealers, but in this price class 20% is what I would expect. (5300 x 0.8) = $4240, which is about the same price as the Funk 18.3, a possible competitor.

As I posted before, I was surprised at the price. Not that I'm criticizing it, or saying the product is over-priced, but I expected a lower price. I also expected a lower price on the Revel Rhythm2 when it released, so perhaps my expectations for high-end subwoofer pricing are unreasonable.

I continue to be... slightly perturbed by posts from "value buyers", who always seem compelled to say that they'd rather have two of this or three of that in place of some premium product. To reiterate what I've said before, someone seriously considering a $5300 RBH sub, no less a pair of them, is very unlikely to be cross-shopping it with a pair of Rythmiks.
 
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B

Basshead81

Audioholic
Yeah, I think if stacked, you get 6dB, if on opposite sides of the room you get 3dB with each additional sub or something like that?
Not exactly...I get a 6db gain with 2 of my subs 12ft apart and 9db gain total with 3 subs. Double the displacement while maintaining the same voltage swing is a 6db gain. Depending in placement and the room, not all frequencies may see a 6db gain. Some more, some less...but the forum myth that spreading the subs apart only yields a 3db gain is a myth. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
RBH speakers are sold through B&M dealers, which means they are most likely sold at a discount. ID speaker prices simply are what's posted, so comparisons are not as clear as MSRPs make them seem.

I continue to be... slightly perturbed by posts from "value buyers", who always seem compelled to say that they'd rather have two of this or three of that in place of some premium product. To reiterate what I've said before, someone seriously considering a $5300 RBH sub, no less a pair of them, is very unlikely to be cross-shopping it with a pair of Rythmiks.
Very true, Irv. Very true. :D

Every product has its own specific market. Same thing with ID vs B&M whether we are talking about amps, speakers, subs, etc.
 
B

Basshead81

Audioholic
RBH speakers are sold through B&M dealers, which means they are most likely sold at a discount. ID speaker prices simply are what's posted, so comparisons are not as clear as MSRPs make them seem. I don't know what typical RBH discounts are at B&M dealers, but in this price class 20% is what I would expect. (5300 x 0.8) = $4240, which is about the same price as the Funk 18.3, a possible competitor.

As I posted before, I was surprised at the price. Not that I'm criticizing it, or saying the product is over-priced, but I expected a lower price. I also expected a lower price on the Revel Rhythm2 when it released, so perhaps my expectations for high-end subwoofer pricing are unreasonable.

I continue to be... slightly perturbed by posts from "value buyers", who always seem compelled to say that they'd rather have two of this or three of that in place of some premium product. To reiterate what I've said before, someone seriously considering a $5300 RBH sub, no less a pair of them, is very unlikely to be cross-shopping it with a pair of Rythmiks.
You are perturbed because I would rather put my money on a product that provides the most performance vs price? I would not consider myself a value buyer. I could drop the cash on 4 of those RBH-12's today if I wanted. The issue I have is that I would feel like I was taken to the cleaners. Some people have more money then they know what to do with and choose to buy the most expensive product without performance in mind, others have some money and choose to spend it wisely. Call me the latter...;)

I would consider the Funk 18.3 on a different level then the RBH. Just the exotic finish alone justifies the cost. Now if the RBH was offered in quilted bubinga or some other exotic finish I could understand the price.

Again the RBH is putting up some impressive numbers!! I just thought it's price is a bit steep. If one could get a healthy discount on a pair then they would have a winner on thier hands . not trying to ruffle any feathers, just offering my opinion in a public forum. :)
 

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