Walmart - Evil Corporation Or The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread?

[Rickster71]

Maybe in manufacturing if walmart wasn't allowed to sell slave built sh!t in the US.

Are you more pi$$ed at Walmart or those guys that do the textured wall finishing?

 

[Rickster71]

Whenever I read one of the Hive Mind type threads I always think of the quote by Edward Bernays, the father of public relations and propaganda -

[h=1]“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized.

Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” [/h]
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

 

[Steve81]

What I found was that income disparities were predicted to widen and widen rapidly in the years to come. I saw that as unhealthy. Unfortunately, I don't recall what possible remedies I suggested, but I do know that they didn't involve government solutions.

Income / wealth disparities are natural in the course of things. Few would suggest that a janitor's services are worth as much as that of an ER physician; there are far fewer people qualified to be an ER physician, and most would consider the ability to save a life as being more critical to society than the ability to mop a floor and clean a toilet.

However, there's one important caveat to the above: we still need people to mop floors and clean toilets. Now there's a choice involved: due to supply and demand (i.e. a large unskilled labor force), it's possible to pay a janitor relatively little for his services. One can make moral arguments that this is taking advantage of the unskilled labor pool, that they deserve better, etc. Instead, I ask a couple simple questions: if you've got a large class of people that can't afford to buy goods and services beyond the bare necessities, is that good for an economy or not? How does that play out for future generations, i.e. ability to afford higher education, upwards economic mobility, etc? The sheer size of Walmart (both in terms of the number of people they employ as well as their influence in the market) make these interesting questions to ponder.

 

[Chu Gai]

The thing with shareholders, ImcLoud, is they'll always pressure companies for ways to improve their bottom line. As cheap as migrant workers are paid to harvest produce, research and large scale experiments have long been underway to develop intelligent machines that can replace them, working quicker with less produce damage and ultimately eliminating those jobs. Same I suspect will happen in the fast food industry. Email and other things are putting a hurting on th USPS. IMO, the high gas prices here, although Europe I'm sure disagrees, has put a hurting on smaller businesses. Many simply can't justify traveling to multiple stores to shop and even eat out, making a Walmart run economically sensible.

Size 16 shoes...wow! You consider spending the money and finding an actual shoemaker?

This past Saturday, I had an excavator come by to look at the job of replacing my underground propane tank. Afterwards he and I started talking about stuff. He was telling me how he had five daughters, one still in college, and how the others were still living at home. I saked how was that since they were educated. One he said went to be a special needs teacher. It paid OK, enough where she could have gotten an apartment, but she found out the job wasn't what she expected. She couldn't put up with the beaurocracy and the paperwork and is looking to go back to school to try something else. Another got her degree in accounting. Should be an easy 60k or more jog to start. She now has a change of heart and wants to be a fashion designer. And you know, he says to me, that pays sh!t. We moved on to other topics.

Btw, if someone has links to Walmart taking out life insurance on workers with them as the beneficiaries, I'd love to read it.

 

[ImcLoud]

So at what point does economy of scale become evil? Take a guy that owns a HVAC business and does $1M/year. How many little guys does he put out of business? I'm talking about the HVAC techs that have worked hard, earned their license, and install units on the side to help feed their families. The business owner drives a Mercedes while the tech struggles to keep his 1990 F150 running, feed his kids and pay for their braces. Is the business owner evil? How about when he grows his business to $2M/year... is he evil then? The business owner pays his employees well and treats them well. He supports local businesses, is personal friends with the Police Chief, and is a pillar of the community. But, he takes business away from the little guy(s) who are struggling, and enjoys the fruits of his labor while the little guys suffer. Evil? He breaks no laws and operates within the govt rules and regulations. Is his "fortune" earned "honestly"?

As this business owner grows, at what point does he become evil and dishonest? He starts using Heinz ketchup, French's mustard and Lay's potato chips... supporting huge conglomerates that have decimated local farm businesses. Evil now?

First, there should be no "on the side" in our business, on the side means you pay, taxes like me {scale of course}, you pay workmans comp insurance for your employees and helpers like me, you pay insurance like me, you need to have lettered business vehicles like me {has to be legally lettered with lic #'s}, pull permits like me, have a business licence like me, offer warranties and stand behind your work like me, the list goes on and on... Once you do all of that, then sure compete in the market.

I am going to try to explain how business growth works... I started working for someone, I went to school and learned all I could learn from what was at my disposal, I worked up to service manager, then I started a business while keeping my position. Did everything by the book, went down filed for a business licence, got insurance, accountant, bought my own truck and had it lettered up... I was in business... Working 2 jobs and having exhausted a lot of years worth of savings to start the business I wasn't getting much sleep, not just because of the 80hrs a week but because of nerves and stress...

After a while it worked out, I left my job and moved on because I have DRIVE and I'm not afraid to work my d!ck off.... Now, no one gave me anything for free, I didn't have trust funds or inheritance {my parents do well enough to support themselves, but I am 1 of 4 kids and they didn't have much extra for us}... I started working young and listened to my dad when he said SAVE SAVE SAVE, my friends were buying big stereos for their cars and going to the beach, I was in the gym {that was free} and working....

So with my new buildings, more employees, and never ending increasing overhead, my prices have gone up to match my reputation, I do a lot of commerical work and sub work, very little residential lately... So there is plenty of room for the "little guy" to start up.. Believe me...

NOW if you want to compare me to walmart fine, but you know I respond to every post, lol so try to think ahead to what I am going to say.... Because here is the issue with your argument....

I treat my customers well and my employees like family... If I were walmart, I would give them nothing, I would pay less than anyone else {in turn getting that caliber of help} and I would price everything super low to edge out the competition giving them lesser materials and worksmanship, then once the competition was gone, I would raise my price while keeping my employees making as little as I can get away with to make more for myself...

Could my busines sbe MUCH more profitable, OH YEAH, it could.. For example, I charge $9K to install a furnace with central AC, it takes 3 guys 16 hours {48 man hours total 16X3techs=48 man hours}, so them 48 man hours cost me {after bonuses, benefits, insurance per worker, wages, over time, ect it will average around $40 an hour} so that is around $2000 for labor, now the trucks average $3 a mile that job would have 2 trucks on site day one and 1 truck day 2 call it $200 for vehicles, materials for the job will be around $3,200 so around $5400 then the permit is $200 and the office will add $150 expense to the job... For round numbers call it $6000 with $3000 in profit uncle sam takes 30% of that so a little over $2000.... NOW, I can EASILY hire 1 licensed tech and send two monkeys with him and cut my average man hour to $20 an hour making me another $1000 on that job and I can buy cheaper materials and cut corners to save another $1000 there, in 5 minutes i can figure a way to double my profits!!!

NOW DO YOU THINK I DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE I AM NOT SMART ENOUGH TO? OR DO YOU THINK I DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE I AM NOT A SCUM BAG THAT ONLY CARES ABOUT THE BOTTOM DOLLAR???? My customers are important to me my employees are almost family, thats what you get with small business, I have been best man at an employees weddings {he now owns his own business and rents his shop from me, that he will someday buy from me}, I am godfather to two of my employees sons {1 moved on to a different career at his wife's fathers trucking company} 1 is still with me.... I love these people, we spend a lot of time together, when I was building this business some of these guys on occasion waited 30 days for their pay until I got paid for the job!!! When I was actually working we spent more time together than with our families, how could a good man move out into a big house and leave the guys that helped him behind in the slums? Your going to have to ask the waltons that one, because I wouldn't know how to do that...

My HVAC business does well, but my money was made in real estate. With hvac, I stay behind the scenes, we do work for other contractors, new contruction, commercial replacement and service, as little residential as possible, you have to know us to get us to your home, and I try to sub out resi jobs if I am busy {exemployees who started his own business takes care of a lot of it for me}....

As far as the little guy with his f150 and kids messed up teeth, I have some advice... WORK so much you forget what your kids look like then you be so happy just to see them, that crooked smile won't bother you one bit, maybe if you are smart, do good work, and a lot of it, make sure your good decisions out number your bad ones, be honest, maybe some day you can afford to send Gangle Mouth Gabby to orthodontist school, where she will remember your hard work ethic and be grateful for the opportunities she has because you worked yourself into an early grave... It's not my fault the economy is going to sh!t because small business can't compete with big money and politics... Don't be fooled by a 1 million dollar gross, I am a small business owner, them numbers don't mean anything until you get to 50-75 million which I will never see, nor do I want to...

 

[shadyJ]

So at what point does economy of scale become evil? Take a guy that owns a HVAC business and does $1M/year. How many little guys does he put out of business? I'm talking about the HVAC techs that have worked hard, earned their license, and install units on the side to help feed their families. The business owner drives a Mercedes while the tech struggles to keep his 1990 F150 running, feed his kids and pay for their braces. Is the business owner evil? How about when he grows his business to $2M/year... is he evil then? The business owner pays his employees well and treats them well. He supports local businesses, is personal friends with the Police Chief, and is a pillar of the community. But, he takes business away from the little guy(s) who are struggling, and enjoys the fruits of his labor while the little guys suffer. Evil? He breaks no laws and operates within the govt rules and regulations. Is his "fortune" earned "honestly"?

As this business owner grows, at what point does he become evil and dishonest? He starts using Heinz ketchup, French's mustard and Lay's potato chips... supporting huge conglomerates that have decimated local farm businesses. Evil now?

Herbu, I do not necessarily think larger scale production or business is inherently evil. I cited Costco as a way that it can be done a lot more ethically than walmart. And, of course, there are some industries that can only be done on large scales, for example, I don't see any mom-and-pop CPU manufacturers. I admit that I don't know exactly where the line is which a large corporation crosses whereby it goes from socially beneficial to destructive. However, one thing I am sure of is walmart is well, well past that line. The black book of walmart would be a very large, multi-volume book. Obviously no large company or organization can completely avoid misdeeds and problems. I don't expect perfection, but the corporate culture of walmart is absolutely vile. They treat their employees bad, their suppliers bad, their customers bad, all for the sake of a slightly better quarterly shareholder report.

One more thing I would say about your post is that there is an important distinction between ethical and legal. As you well know, they do not always overlap. For example, many of the banking and trading practices which led up to the market collapse of 2008 were completely legal but highly unethical. That naturally lead to a discussion of what should be legal and illegal, but that is a subject I do not have the ambition for. I would only say I think there is solid grounds for walmart to be disincorporated.

 

[shadyJ]

Btw, if someone has links to Walmart taking out life insurance on workers with them as the beneficiaries, I'd love to read it.

Here you go. For a funny thought, imagine the movie Double Indemnity with walmart playing Barbara Stanwyck's role.

 

[ImcLoud]

The thing with shareholders, ImcLoud, is they'll always pressure companies for ways to improve their bottom line. As cheap as migrant workers are paid to harvest produce, research and large scale experiments have long been underway to develop intelligent machines that can replace them, working quicker with less produce damage and ultimately eliminating those jobs. Same I suspect will happen in the fast food industry. Email and other things are putting a hurting on th USPS. IMO, the high gas prices here, although Europe I'm sure disagrees, has put a hurting on smaller businesses. Many simply can't justify traveling to multiple stores to shop and even eat out, making a Walmart run economically sensible.

Size 16 shoes...wow! You consider spending the money and finding an actual shoemaker?

This past Saturday, I had an excavator come by to look at the job of replacing my underground propane tank. Afterwards he and I started talking about stuff. He was telling me how he had five daughters, one still in college, and how the others were still living at home. I saked how was that since they were educated. One he said went to be a special needs teacher. It paid OK, enough where she could have gotten an apartment, but she found out the job wasn't what she expected. She couldn't put up with the beaurocracy and the paperwork and is looking to go back to school to try something else. Another got her degree in accounting. Should be an easy 60k or more jog to start. She now has a change of heart and wants to be a fashion designer. And you know, he says to me, that pays sh!t. We moved on to other topics.

Btw, if someone has links to Walmart taking out life insurance on workers with them as the beneficiaries, I'd love to read it.

Google it I am sure there is an article somewhere...

I am not slow enough to think that Walmart will ever be gone or that small businesses will ever return, we are simply too far gone and I am not the giving up type... But I won't shop there EVER... I hate myself for using lowes and homedepot as well as amazon, BUT it is what it is... I know walmart has shareholders in mind and they should, I guess, but I am curious as to when people will figure out that we are all in this together and that the economy is like a snow ball once it starts going one way {as in a few people holding all the wealth and the rest becoming poor} its hard to impossible to stop and the more it moves the larger it gets... If we spread walmarts sales out to millions of small businesses there would be more money around, we would all have our share or at least the chance to earn it...
We can't compete with HUGE companies so we don't try, believe it or ont, this is just the beginning. Soon everything will be ran by Big companies. 1 car lot company will sell all brands of cars {this is already starting with super car centers}, so no more John Johnson's Buick dealership, 1 company will handle all of your construction needs, no more Dave Smiths roofing or Jacky Davis's Flooring, 1 company will sell you goods, there will be no competition because the Biggest most powerful company will just get bigger and bigger...

Walmart will grow and grow, start selling more and more different items, they will start selling lumber some day, then cars, then condos, you will just buy everything from walmart, and they can sell all these items under 1 roof with the minimum amount of employees, as soon as something shows it can make a profit they will be there to push out the guy that was there first...

 

[Rickster71]

Instead, I ask a couple simple questions: if you've got a large class of people that can't afford to buy goods and services beyond the bare necessities, is that good for an economy or not? How does that play out for future generations, i.e. ability to afford higher education, upwards economic mobility, etc? The sheer size of Walmart (both in terms of the number of people they employ as well as their influence in the market) make these interesting questions to ponder.

Those people come and/or get sent to the USA as illegal aliens. Note: I love legal immigration.
They dilute the existing work force, grossly increasing worker numbers (simple supply & demand. The worker's value is now decreased) and play directly into the hands of all the evil corporations. They now have cheap, desperate labor.

The hive mind blames the Evil Corporations instead of all the millionaire politicians that are in bed with the corps and allowed this to happen.
The same Congress that's still immune to insider trading laws. So much for transparency.

 

[Nestor]

Fixed for ya

"Want"? What does that even mean?

Does it mean a govt. worker shows up at your door asking if you want food stamps?

Or is this just another example of a compassionate conservative shaming the poor, in this case, the working poor?

 

[crossedover]

"Want"? What does that even mean?

Does it mean a govt. worker shows up at your door asking if you want food stamps?

Or is this just another example of a compassionate conservative shaming the poor, in this case, the working poor?

You would be surprised at the way our government advertises and pushes assistance programs

 

[Chu Gai]

Government regulations, which are ever increasingly more complex, are an impediment to people looking to start their own business. The pricks that we elect could hunker down to the task of simplifying, removing redundancies, and just making it easier for people. I recall seeing a program by Stossel where he displayed a monumental stack of paper that a person would have to wade through just to open a lemonade stand.

I have one idea which could kick start the economy big time and just result in massive amounts of tourism - legalize prostitution across all 50 states. Tax it no worse than another business. Then watch while all the Chinese, Europeans, and everyone else comes. They'll need places to stay, hotels or Airbnb, cars, restaurants, shopping, etc. Let competition make the prices attractive so they stay for a while. Have your upper end BDSM, kink joints, whatever.

 

[markw]

"Want"? What does that even mean?

Does it mean a govt. worker shows up at your door asking if you want food stamps?

Or is this just another example of a compassionate conservative shaming the poor, in this case, the working poor?

In this case it seems more like sanctimonious liberals shaming the poor. The conservatives seem to have no problem with them shopping at WalMart.

 

[Rickster71]

You would be surprised at the way our government advertises and pushes assistance programs

Keep them down and dependent, while simultaneously convincing them you care. Even though the poor voter is simply a means to and end.
There is no better way for a self serving politician to buy votes.
Votes that equate to money, power and influence for said politician.

 

[shadyJ]

Government regulations, which are ever increasingly more complex, are an impediment to people looking to start their own business. The pricks that we elect could hunker down to the task of simplifying, removing redundancies, and just making it easier for people. I recall seeing a program by Stossel where he displayed a monumental stack of paper that a person would have to wade through just to open a lemonade stand.

I have one idea which could kick start the economy big time and just result in massive amounts of tourism - legalize prostitution across all 50 states. Tax it no worse than another business. Then watch while all the Chinese, Europeans, and everyone else comes. They'll need places to stay, hotels or Airbnb, cars, restaurants, shopping, etc. Let competition make the prices attractive so they stay for a while. Have your upper end BDSM, kink joints, whatever.

This would also greatly reduce domestic sex slavery and human trafficking. Also, less tax money would be spent on incarceration and legal expenses. Quality of life goes up for a substantial pool of people.

On the downside, it would offend the archaic mores of the more puritanical and insecure side of our culture. It also creates job security issues for Dolemite.

 

[Chu Gai]

Yeah, but you know the clergy of all demoninations would go although the sermons would paint a different story. But then theyd have to compete with Minister James Deen, and Bishop Lexington Steele. For that matter I'd like to tax all religions. Maybe all this would reduce child molestation.

 

[ImcLoud]

woa, now were getting into politics and religion, this thread is going down hill fast, lol... Maybe we should all agree that small businesses are better than walmarts all over the country. and no AH members should ever shop at walmart, it would be a start....

 

[herbu]

I treat my customers well and my employees like family

It seems to me there are different business models, both legitimate. One provides a product at the lowest possible cost. One provides a product at a higher cost, but with better service and support.

When I was younger, money was a tight resource. Finding the lowest price was important, and I was willing to accept poor service to get it. Now money is more abundant, and I'm willing to pay more to get the higher level of service.

Each person can choose which suits them. When we start denigrating a business or customer for their choice, it is pretentious and presumptuous. How many employees is it appropriate to layoff in order to pay the others more? How many poor people is it OK to price out of the market by raising prices? How much profit is acceptable for someone who owns over half of a business with 11,000 brick and morter stores, employs 2.2 million people, and takes in $36M/hour in sales?

That's $315,360M per year. Let's do a little math.

The Waltons are worth $100B, approx 1/3 total sales for a year. (Sam bought his first store in 1945, and opened the first Walmart in 1962. So the $100B accumulated over almost 70 years.)

The HVAC business owner in my example does $1M per year. He's still pretty young and hasn't accumulated wealth for nearly 70 years. His house and assets are worth maybe $1M? $5M? He has other businesses too, so let's just say $1M came from the HVAC business.

Adjusted for the size of the business, the Waltons take 1/3 as much profit from the business as the HVAC owner. Evil?

So what to do?
Shop where you want to shop... don't shop where you don't want... try to convince others to join your cause? All reasonable actions.
Vilify those who disagree with you... tell people they're going to he11... make personal attacks? Not so much. And not very effective in winning people to your side.

 

[Rickster71]

If Walmart Jobs Are So Awful, Why Do So Many People Want To Work There?

If Walmart Jobs Are So Awful, Why Do So Many People Want To Work There? | Say Anything


(from article)
Walmart received 23,000 applications for 600 new jobs at the two new stores that it opened this week in Washington, DC,” “That’s more than 38 applications for every position.

"Entry-level jobs often lead to bigger jobs. At Walmart, you can climb the ladder from a stocker or a cashier to a department manager, a store manager, and beyond.About 75% of our store management teams started as hourly associates, and they earn between $50,000 and $170,000 a year – similar to what firefighters, accountants, and even doctors make. Every year, we promote about 160,000 people globally to jobs with more responsibility and higher pay."

 

[ImcLoud]

It seems to me there are different business models, both legitimate. One provides a product at the lowest possible cost. One provides a product at a higher cost, but with better service and support.

When I was younger, money was a tight resource. Finding the lowest price was important, and I was willing to accept poor service to get it. Now money is more abundant, and I'm willing to pay more to get the higher level of service.

Each person can choose which suits them. When we start denigrating a business or customer for their choice, it is pretentious and presumptuous. How many employees is it appropriate to layoff in order to pay the others more? How many poor people is it OK to price out of the market by raising prices? How much profit is acceptable for someone who owns over half of a business with 11,000 brick and morter stores, employs 2.2 million people, and takes in $36M/hour in sales?

That's $315,360M per year. Let's do a little math.

The Waltons are worth $100B, approx 1/3 total sales for a year. (Sam bought his first store in 1945, and opened the first Walmart in 1962. So the $100B accumulated over almost 70 years.)

The HVAC business owner in my example does $1M per year. He's still pretty young and hasn't accumulated wealth for nearly 70 years. His house and assets are worth maybe $1M? $5M? He has other businesses too, so let's just say $1M came from the HVAC business.

Adjusted for the size of the business, the Waltons take 1/3 as much profit from the business as the HVAC owner. Evil?

So what to do?
Shop where you want to shop... don't shop where you don't want... try to convince others to join your cause? All reasonable actions.
Vilify those who disagree with you... tell people they're going to he11... make personal attacks? Not so much. And not very effective in winning people to your side.

OK, your math is so off its not funny... I didn't say anyone was going to hell, I said walmart is the devil {watch water boy, you will get it}... I haven't made personal attacks either...

First off the waltons are worth almost 200 billion total {all of them}, and they only own a little more than half of walmart so the business is worth much more.. And the money that sam walton made 50 years ago can not be averaged at todays dollar value, be serious, a new car was $2000 and a house was $18K back then...

And I am not talking about sam personally, I am talking about what his company is today... Walmart profits the 3 waltons alone over 3 billion per year, so do some more googling and readjust your math...

HERES where you are really off base... Them being profitable isn't the problem, its the annihilation of small businesses... In the years I have been in business, do you know how much time I invested into figuring out how to eliminate the competition? ZERO HOURS, never crossed my mind, I have more funds than a few companies out there that sometimes take my bids, so why don't I just under bid them until they are out of business, pay one of my guys to follow their trucks around and bid all their jobs, maybe tap their phones and hack their computers to see where they are going, how about I go to all the supply houses when I start to grow and tell them if you sell to them I wont buy from you, and you have to sell to me cheaper than anyone else or I wont buy from you, and since I am now the largest company you can not survive without me!!!!

Herb go ahead and read that a few times, you know why I don't do them things? BECAUSE I AM NOT THE DEVIL!!! I go to sleep at night and have nothing negative on my mind, I get up in the morning, walk into my bathroom look in the mirror and SMILE, Knowing that the world {even if its just my small part of it} is better with me in it, I haven't hurt anyone for my personal gain, I don't exploit or push my weight around to better my financial position... I am not walmart...

Obvioulsy no one is going to change your mind on this, which is great, I kind of envy you for not caring what walmart stands for and feeling good about supporting them, my brain just won't let me do it, imagine how much more money I would have if my kids did their school shopping their instead of expressions, if I bought all my food their instead of at local farmers markets and my butcher shop, ect I would have way more money to spend at walmart if I shopped there.. So color yourself lucky for not having the same morals as me and having different ideas on what is right and wrong..


PS- I don't know how many times i have to say, I don't blame anyone for shopping at walmart, pretty soon we are all going to have to because there will be no other options, thats my point.. Where else can we go when all the small pet stores, camera stores, electronics stores, groceries, shoe stores, ect ect ect ect ect ect are gone.. A lot of people have to go to walmart, I don't blame them for that, I blame everyone who supported them in the beginning and letting them get so large, I blame the lack of legislature that didn't stop it from happening, I blame our ignorance for not seeing it coming....


There are studies out there that show for every 100 jobs walmart creates it costs that plus 50... Studies out there that show small towns getting ripped apart by a walmart coming in... I don't know how you can sit there and say its good for us?

My financial success has a lot to do with smart investing, real estate has done a lot for me which I wouldn't have had the money to invest in without the HVAC, BUT anyone can do it, I have lined it out in other posts, Buy, fix, rent, and wait... Simple idea, buy 3 family house for $100K, rent the 3 apartments for $1000 each, the mortgage taxes, insurance, and upkeep will be around $2000 per month for a 15 year, pay the extra profits back into the property, you should pay it off in 10 years, now you OWN the house which should be going up in value, and you keep the bulk of that $3000 for yourself to reinvest or buy walmart hookers and donuts with, which ever you like... Do that 30 times all at once and you have my business plan... Right now a lot of my properties are coming to term, in the last 9 months I have paid off 11 mortgages, some of the properties worth as much as $650K, but I wouldn't dare sell them because some take in rents as high as $11K per month {obviously more than one unit, lol}...

So my business plan is simple, you have the drive, decent credit and 20% down and you can easily duplicate it, you could be a millionaire in 10 years if done rite, in the right location.... But its a lot of work, and if you buy slummy apartments you get slummy tenants, try to stay away from walmarts and people that shop there, lol just kidding...

I talked my wifes friends from work into it, they both cashed in their 401k lol, it made me nervous, they bought 3 houses all at the same time {I put new heat and ac in 2 of them}, they rehabbed everything, spent around $400K total, took all 15 year mortgages out and started a realestate company.. Derrick is talking about quitting his job and managing property full time, they want to buy 8 more and I talk to him at least once a week lately {plus they are over here because my wife is home} where he shows me houses he has been looking at!!! Do the math, 10 houses at 100K a piece, they pay for themselves in 10 years, they will go up in value but just say they stay the same, you pay them off in 10 and just sell them, you have a million dollars {then pay taxes of course}!!!!!

But you wont sell them because that was my plan originally, but its hard to get rid of them because once they are gone you dont get that 15K per month {say your rents are 30K and you keep half after, taxes, insurance, upkeep}, and you still own them... At one point I was making over $30K per month in rental income!!!!
So 15K a month and you still own the 1 million in property!!! 10 years, start with $200K buy 10- 100K mulitfam homes.. They are out there, I am going tomorrow to look at a 2 family in Attleboro for $48K, not on the market yet would need to be a cash sale, but it looks like a nice place, needs hvac, floors to be finished, and driveway paved, has new roof, new siding, and new electric services, rents in that area for 1200sq ft and 900 sq ft apartments are between $980-$1350, taxes are a little high at $4700 per year, insurance is under $1K, house will pay for itself in under 6 years!!!!