Identical LCR Speakers? Can't They Do Better?

[konajoe]

Hi All!

I'm brand new to the home theater game. But I've been doing alot of reading, and have seen several suggestions to use identical left, center, and right speakers, as long as you can set up the center speaker the same as the L and R.

I see their points, but can't these high tech speaker companies do better than that? The center speaker has a specific job to do, that is different from the left and right. So shouldn't a well designed system's center speaker be from the same speaker line, but of a different design from the L and R?

 

[ski2xblack]

For the purpose of seamless timbre matching across the front stage, three identical speakers are recommended. It makes a lot of sense, particularly for those with AT screens so the center is at the same height as the L and R. For those of us with flat screens, we have to go above or below the screen. Horizontally oriented center channels are a bit of a compromise for aethetics, not performance (they tend to constrain lateral dispersion).

In our home, the sweet spot is small so we make do with a phantom center rather than an actual speaker. Perfect timbre match w/ the L and R that way.

 

[herbu]

But I've been doing alot of reading, and have seen several suggestions to use identical left, center, and right speakers

Really? I don't see that. I do see suggestions to use a center from the same maker and family that is matched to your L/R. Most companies do have families of speakers, and do have specific center speakers matched and recommended with their specific L/Rs. The centers are different, usually lacking the woofers, and designed for the voices and frequencies predominant in the center channel.

Some people, (one person), I know does have 5 identical speakers for L/C/R and Surrounds. But it's a fairly unique setup, and he has specific reasons for it.

 

[2ndammendment]

Traditional horizontal centers can have worse horizontal off axis response than vertically aligned drivers such as in a bookshelf or tower.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Traditional horizontal centers can have worse horizontal off axis response than vertically aligned drivers such as in a bookshelf or tower.

^^^ +1 this
Especially in MDM woofer layout. A while back AH tested some of best of centers vs simple 2 way bookshelf for best FR - guess who won?

 

[konajoe]

OK. In the speaker section of this forum, I've asked for suggestions for a center speaker that produces great dialogue. One of the suggestions was the KEF 600C. Sure enough, I've found some great reviews. Now, if I chose to get that, I would get a pair of KEF Q series bookshelf speakers to match it. They're small, so I could certainly have the option of using one of these bookshelf speakers vertically in a space below the tv, as the center. Are y'all saying I would be better off doing that, rather than getting the 600C?

 

[slipperybidness]

ok. In the speaker section of this forum, i've asked for suggestions for a center speaker that produces great dialogue. One of the suggestions was the kef 600c. Sure enough, i've found some great reviews. Now, if i chose to get that, i would get a pair of kef q series bookshelf speakers to match it. They're small, so i could certainly have the option of using one of these bookshelf speakers vertically in a space below the tv, as the center. Are y'all saying i would be better off doing that, rather than getting the 600c?

yup, yup, yup

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi All!

I'm brand new to the home theater game. But I've been doing alot of reading, and have seen several suggestions to use identical left, center, and right speakers, as long as you can set up the center speaker the same as the L and R.

I see their points, but can't these high tech speaker companies do better than that? The center speaker has a specific job to do, that is different from the left and right. So shouldn't a well designed system's center speaker be from the same speaker line, but of a different design from the L and R?

Actually your intuition is correct. When I audition the center speaker almost always sticks out like a sore thumb. My researches have shown that a center speaker absolutely should not be identical to the left and rights.

This idea of timbre matching is also false. It is error matching. A good front three demands that they all be superlative speakers. Otherwise they have to be equally lousy.

I'm certain the best options for the center speaker lie with good coaxial designs or a good full ranger. The latter are as rare as hen's teeth! Coloration must be minimal. Low Q designs are de rigeur for home theater.

 

[theJman]

OK. In the speaker section of this forum, I've asked for suggestions for a center speaker that produces great dialogue. One of the suggestions was the KEF 600C. Sure enough, I've found some great reviews. Now, if I chose to get that, I would get a pair of KEF Q series bookshelf speakers to match it. They're small, so I could certainly have the option of using one of these bookshelf speakers vertically in a space below the tv, as the center. Are y'all saying I would be better off doing that, rather than getting the 600C?

No, the Q600C would be a much better center. With that model the Uni-Q driver is in the middle, which is surrounded by a low frequency driver and a passive radiator. That is not an MTM design, and as such won't suffer from any potential lobing issues. Making sure your front three speakers are from the same model line, or at least 'voiced' similarly, is always a good idea, but they don't have to be identical.

 

[j_garcia]

If you have 3 identical speakers across the front and the center stands out, the system is not properly setup IMO. I had 3 identical A/V-2s setup for nearly 10 years, in 4 different rooms and never noticed the center more or less than the others. If they don't sound like they're basically all one speaker, then placement or calibration are more likely causes than anything. Yes, some horizontal speakers have lobing, but the GRs are pretty good off axis both vertically and horizontally. When you combine them with correct positioning, you should not notice any lobing because the mains should pick up in the area where you are off axis from the center. I also don't have any seating that is far enough off axis for lobing to be an issue.

 

[GranteedEV]

OK. In the speaker section of this forum, I've asked for suggestions for a center speaker that produces great dialogue. One of the suggestions was the KEF 600C. Sure enough, I've found some great reviews. Now, if I chose to get that, I would get a pair of KEF Q series bookshelf speakers to match it. They're small, so I could certainly have the option of using one of these bookshelf speakers vertically in a space below the tv, as the center. Are y'all saying I would be better off doing that, rather than getting the 600C?

Well, no. You would be better off with the KEF 600C over the Q100 / Q300 as a center simply because it probably has better power handling, and is probably designed for placement near-walls.

 

[GranteedEV]

I see their points, but can't these high tech speaker companies do better than that? The center speaker has a specific job to do, that is different from the left and right. So shouldn't a well designed system's center speaker be from the same speaker line, but of a different design from the L and R?

Does the center actually have a different job, though? It's just one speaker in the front stage. Good speakers will excel on all fronts - dialogue, music, blending into a subwoofer, etc. It stands to reason that the option for the center is going to be a good speaker. And guess what, the best option for a L/R main is going to be a good speaker.

The idea of a vertically offset or horizontally laid-out center is merely a compromise driven by television screens. It's not the way audio is mixed (which usually involves three identical studio monitors) nor is it how audio is shown in theaters (again, three identical prosound line arrays or the like)

 

[konajoe]

This is all great info, and i appreciate all of the comments and suggestions. As a reminder, the left, center, and right will be in a large home entertainment system. Here are some points that I have seen made on this subject. Any comments on any of these?

1. The center speaker should be shielded. Do y'all see any shielding issues with using a KEF Q100 or 300 as a center speaker?

2. The LC and R would ideally be at the same level. In my case, they won't. Are the KEF centers more 'aimable' than the bookshelf speakers?

3. As a result of the nature of human voices, a good crossover point to the sub would be 80hz, so I would want a center that is relatively flat down to that point. Does that give bonus points to using the Q600, which has a dedicated woofer, or should I just go with 3 Q300's instead of 3 Q100's?

4. The L,C, and R should match in timbre and quality. Is a 3 way center, with it's additional crossover a bad match for a 2 way Q100/300?

Thanks

 

[j_garcia]

1) Do you have a CRT TV? If not, shielding is not necessary.

2) All speakers are "aimable" except omnipolar ones.

3) For a speaker to be good at 80Hz, you need to choose one that goes LOWER than 80Hz, since a crossover is not a brick wall. Something that goes to about 60-70Hz.

4) Timbre match is pretty much guaranteed by buying from the same family of speaker from a manufacturer. 2-way, 3-way should not matter or even be noticed if designed properly. The KEFs should be fine in this regard.

 

[beakergeek]

For getting the best sound across the sound stage, its ideal to have the same speaker serve as left, right and center. That way the sound is perfectly matched and transitions across the sound stage will be more seamless.

 

[ARES24]

My $0.02

If the center is designed well timbre matching shouldn't be a problem. I use towers for my left right and a horizontal center less then half the size of the others. I have tried to notice any sound issues... still lookin.