Pioneer Atmos Speakers (SP-EFS73/SP-EBS73L/SP-EC73 and SW-E10) Preview

[Walkamo]

Please wait until you hear them!

Hi Everyone,

I totally get the that you may be hesitant about the top firing driver. But please wait until you hear it before you decide it does not work.

Both Andrew and myself are true audio enthusiasts just like you. We were also a little hesitant about the upward firing drivers when Dolby first told us about them over a year ago, however after we got a demo and were able to compare both this option compared to in-ceiling speakers we were sold. It works very well. It is not like a speaker bar trying to create a surround sound effect.

Andrew is a smart guy, and I like to think that I know what I am doing (most of the time). We both had a choice to make when creating this line of Elite Speakers, either create in-ceiling speakers as a part of the package or build Dolby Enabled speakers. I honestly believe we made the right choice. Of course the market will decide...

Also, we are considering building versions of these speakers without the Atmos drivers for those folks who want a music only speaker or non-atmos speaker. There are only three of us that create these products so we can't do too many projects at once.

At lastly these speakers are not replacements for the entry level products. Those are next in line...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, Chris! I'm glad that you chimed in. I'm pretty excited about Atmos, but I'm still just starting to learn about it.

Any plans to offer these in a different finish?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My prediction is it won't really matter much in about a year as I foresee Atmos being even less popular than 3D

3-Who ?

 

[Walkamo]

Welcome to the forum, Chris! I'm glad that you chimed in. I'm pretty excited about Atmos, but I'm still just starting to learn about it.

Any plans to offer these in a different finish?

We are currently evaluating a couple of different finishes, however nothing is final yet. Black is the most accepted which is why we launched with that color. Our original goal was to use a wood veneer, however in order to get it adhere to the curved cabinet and stay it was very expensive and would have driven the price up.

I will do my best to let everyone know once we decide...

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

 

[Walkamo]

Your welcome

A lot of Pioneer owners would desire more than just the budget-friendly gen (1) and (2) speakers.
I wish they would really consider this - no telling when that might happen. Something around the
$400 a pair mark would be interesting.

Yes it would.....

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

 

[gene]

Hi Everyone,

I totally get the that you may be hesitant about the top firing driver. But please wait until you hear it before you decide it does not work.

Both Andrew and myself are true audio enthusiasts just like you. We were also a little hesitant about the upward firing drivers when Dolby first told us about them over a year ago, however after we got a demo and were able to compare both this option compared to in-ceiling speakers we were sold. It works very well. It is not like a speaker bar trying to create a surround sound effect.

Andrew is a smart guy, and I like to think that I know what I am doing (most of the time). We both had a choice to make when creating this line of Elite Speakers, either create in-ceiling speakers as a part of the package or build Dolby Enabled speakers. I honestly believe we made the right choice. Of course the market will decide...

Also, we are considering building versions of these speakers without the Atmos drivers for those folks who want a music only speaker or non-atmos speaker. There are only three of us that create these products so we can't do too many projects at once.

At lastly these speakers are not replacements for the entry level products. Those are next in line...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Thanks for contributing to this thread Chris. While I can understand the need to offer a more compatible form factor to propel a new technology like Atmos into the consumer market, firing a driver on top of a speaker aimed at the ceiling will ALWAYS be a compromise to having a discrete speaker in the proper location firing down towards the listening area. No amount of DSP or Star Trek Physics can change that.

However, I suppose it's better than not having the capability at all. It will certainly sound different and different can be good for those looking for a more 3D sound effect. In any event, as you can already see in our preliminary poll in this thread and as well as our Facebook page, I think the majority of Pioneer enthusiasts would like to see a version of these new AJ speakers offered WITHOUT the Atmos feature.

BTW we are big fans of AJ speakers as you can see in my review:
Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 Floorstanding Speaker System Review | Audioholics

Looking forward to hearing the new lineup.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi Everyone,

I totally get the that you may be hesitant about the top firing driver. But please wait until you hear it before you decide it does not work.

Both Andrew and myself are true audio enthusiasts just like you. We were also a little hesitant about the upward firing drivers when Dolby first told us about them over a year ago, however after we got a demo and were able to compare both this option compared to in-ceiling speakers we were sold. It works very well. It is not like a speaker bar trying to create a surround sound effect.

Andrew is a smart guy, and I like to think that I know what I am doing (most of the time). We both had a choice to make when creating this line of Elite Speakers, either create in-ceiling speakers as a part of the package or build Dolby Enabled speakers. I honestly believe we made the right choice. Of course the market will decide...

Also, we are considering building versions of these speakers without the Atmos drivers for those folks who want a music only speaker or non-atmos speaker. There are only three of us that create these products so we can't do too many projects at once.

At lastly these speakers are not replacements for the entry level products. Those are next in line...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Could you send Gene a pair of these Atmos enabled speakers to measure?

 

[Adam]

Could you send Gene a pair of these Atmos enabled speakers to measure?

Or me?

 

[Walkamo]

Could you send Gene a pair of these Atmos enabled speakers to measure?

Sure... Just as soon as I receive my inventory I will.....

Thanks.

 

[GFOViedo]

Glad to know there will be an upgrade to the Phase 2 speakers. These Atmos speakers are out of my price range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sure... Just as soon as I receive my inventory I will.....

Thanks.

I did own a pair of TAD 2201 monitors. I thought they were super accurate and great sounding for sure.

I am sure that once we see these new Atmos speakers measure as well as the other Pioneer or TAD speakers, we will eat our words.

 

[nogaro]

I did own a pair of TAD 2201 monitors. I thought they were super accurate and great sounding for sure.

I am sure that once we see these new Atmos speakers measure as well as the other Pioneer or TAD speakers, we will eat our words.

I bought the 2201s from ADTG and agree with his observations. Very accurate and clean sounding throughout the range. The bass only goes down to about 50 Hz (they are a monitor), but there are no humps or any bloating that I could discern. I've only run them with a small receiver (Yamaha RX-V375) so far. Will give them a better workout in a couple weeks. But, so far, I'm glad I got them. If the new Elite series is somewhere close to this, it'll be fantastic!

 

[anamorphic96]

I don't see why people are all up in arms over the top mounted drivers. The Atmos system can be set up with discrete ceiling speakers or someone can set it up with the top mounted drivers. Once new speakers are created from other manufactures Dolby Atmos will be the ultimate in home theatre technology. Things are in the early stages for the Atmos home market but products will become cheaper and better over time. The flexibility of the system is very impressive and will only get better as the format is refined even further. This is probably one of the best things to happen to cinema sound since 6 track digital sound was introduced and people think its a gimmick or will die like 3D.

In my opinion Dolby Atmos and object based audio are the future of theatre based audio, and people better get used to it since it will not be going away. In fact it could very well become the standard of the future considering the flexibility of object based audio.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't see why people are all up in arms over the top mounted drivers. The Atmos system can be set up with discrete ceiling speakers or someone can set it up with the top mounted drivers. Once new speakers are created from other manufactures Dolby Atmos will be the ultimate in home theatre technology. Things are in the early stages for the Atmos home market but products will become cheaper and better over time. The flexibility of the system is very impressive and will only get better as the format is refined even further. This is probably one of the best things to happen to cinema sound since 6 track digital sound was introduced and people think its a gimmick or will die like 3D.

In my opinion Dolby Atmos and object based audio are the future of theatre based audio, and people better get used to it since it will not be going away. In fact it could very well become the standard of the future considering the flexibility of object based audio.

Only time will tell for sure.

It's one thing to improve on sound resolution (lossless) like TrueHD & DTS-HD MA w/o having to change your speaker system or add more speakers to your already crowded room. It's another thing having to buy a new speaker system or add a lot more speakers, wires, and amps to your existing crowded system.

And what is the end result? The theory behind Atmos sounds great. More precise implementation of surround effects. But beyond the theory, is the overall sound experience actually 100% better than DTS-HD MA? 50% better? If not, the outcome for Atmos will not bode well.

I have a friend who is a sales exec who sells projection systems to commercial movie theaters. He has been to a few Atmos demonstrations. He said that the sound is better than most theaters, but it's not really significantly better than the best IMAX theaters he's been to.

So if that's the case - that Atmos is "better, but not significantly better than the best IMAX" - then I just don't see how Atmos can survive in the home environment where people would have to spend more money and add more speakers , wires, and amps into their already crowded rooms.

But, hey, only time will tell.

 

[shadyJ]

If there is spatial calibration in this version of Atmos similar to Trinnov, than the benefits will be substantial, even if you only have a regular 5.1 setup. What people just keep on missing about Atmos is that it is not about more speakers, it is about OBJECT ORIENTED SOUNDTRACKS. A benefit of this type of a soundtrack is theoretically you can have as many speakers as you want (cinema Atmos limits it to 64), and they will all be taken advantage of. But if there is spatial calibration, then the processor will know where your speakers are with respect to the listening position and that would be a very big deal. I don't know if this home version of Audyssey employs that. Unless it does, I don't see how it is the next big thing in audio.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If there is spatial calibration in this version of Atmos similar to Trinnov, than the benefits will be substantial, even if you only have a regular 5.1 setup. What people just keep on missing about Atmos is that it is not about more speakers, it is about OBJECT ORIENTED SOUNDTRACKS. A benefit of this type of a soundtrack is theoretically you can have as many speakers as you want (cinema Atmos limits it to 64), and they will all be taken advantage of. But if there is spatial calibration, then the processor will know where your speakers are with respect to the listening position and that would be a very big deal. I don't know if this home version of Audyssey employs that. Unless it does, I don't see how it is the next big thing in audio.

That is a good point.

But everyone measures and weighs "significance" differently.

Do you think DTS-HD MA is a "significant" improvement over DTS?

Do you think 9.1 is a significant improvement over 5.1?

Not everyone thinks Trinnov is a night-and-day significant improvement.

But as you say - if Atmos can "enhance" or "improve" on the existing 5.1, then there will be absolutely no resistance to Atmos. When people buy the new AVRs, they will come equipped with Atmos anyway. So if people don't have to add new speakers or buy new Atmos speakers, wires, amps, or wear silly 3D glasses, then there is absolutely no harm done and no resistance. It would be just like when DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD came into the scene, welcomed with open arms.

 

[anamorphic96]

More people should read the white paper on Dolby Atmos. It will probably answer many questions.


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#newwindow=1&q=dolby atmos white paper

 

[Plexmulti9]

This week we are refitting one of our large theaters outfitted with BG Radia speakers in our design center to be setup for ATMOS. Might as well check it out and show it.

One thing that I am curious about is readily available content. I remember how long it took to get the back channels 6 & 7 to be discreet (or even mixed in at all) and even STILL a lot of soundtracks don't treat it as such.

Also, even though I prefer the THX spec of Bi/Dipole surrounds I do not always have to hold to that design concept with BG because the NEO3 has such incredibly wide dispersion traits. I'm excited to try these in the ceiling for the ATMOS concept over head and compare it to traditional point source cone & dome speakers. We'll see how it goes.

 

[anamorphic96]

Only time will tell for sure.

It's one thing to improve on sound resolution (lossless) like TrueHD & DTS-HD MA w/o having to change your speaker system or add more speakers to your already crowded room. It's another thing having to buy a new speaker system or add a lot more speakers, wires, and amps to your existing crowded system.

And what is the end result? The theory behind Atmos sounds great. More precise implementation of surround effects. But beyond the theory, is the overall sound experience actually 100% better than DTS-HD MA? 50% better? If not, the outcome for Atmos will not bode well.

I have a friend who is a sales exec who sells projection systems to commercial movie theaters. He has been to a few Atmos demonstrations. He said that the sound is better than most theaters, but it's not really significantly better than the best IMAX theaters he's been to.

So if that's the case - that Atmos is "better, but not significantly better than the best IMAX" - then I just don't see how Atmos can survive in the home environment where people would have to spend more money and add more speakers , wires, and amps into their already crowded rooms.

But, hey, only time will tell.

I see what your saying to some extent and I agree. Atmos will not be for everyone. But if you want the ultimate home theatre experience Atmos will be it. However over time Atmos will be refined and more widely used across the board. It's not so much about extra speakers and more channels but what object based audio can do and will become.

IMAX sound systems are a joke in my book. They go around touting themselves as having the best movie experience yet all they do is add in some nice subs (not enough of them) and full range surrounds. I wonder what people would think if they knew how often IMAX systems clip and blow drivers. Especially the new systems popping up in movie theaters around the country. In 5 years I have blown 1 HF driver and 4 sub drivers. If a system is properly specified to the room its going to be in it will not clip and blow drivers under normal playback conditions.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's not so much about extra speakers and more channels but what object based audio can do and will become.

If people don't have to add or change speakers, then there will be no resistance.

Some of us put more weight on surround sound effects than others. For example, the majority of the film soundtrack is in the front channels, which is similar to real life. Most of us don't really care all that much for what's happening behind us. Sometimes it is actually distracting. But as long as we don't have to change our speaker systems and still get the benefits to some degree, there will be no resistance.

One reason 3D video failed is because it required people to buy new TVs and wear stupid glasses. It wasn't backward compatible. It was very distracting to many people.

If ATMOS can enhance the experience without distracting and costing a lot of money - if it can be backward compatible to existing speakers, I see great success. Look how successful DTS-HD MA is. It didn't require any new speaker system. It didn't require more speakers. There was no reason to resist.