NAD integrateds. Content with the 316bee?

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the find! That's a bit out of my budget but I definitely feel like I have some excellent advice. If I end up upgrading speakers I hope to one day audition the EMP E55Ti towers. The X4000 is probably an excellent partner for that in my den in the distant future.
Keep in eye on Amazon. Once the replacement of the X4000 is released, they may drop the price of the X4000 to $650 delivered. They have done this about every year on previous models of the 3310, 3311, etc.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm not sure if it's the same thing as what you've listed above, but the NAD could do 200 watts per channel dynamic power at 2 ohms.
No idea about how they define dynamic power. I have never seen Denon published their AVR's 2 ohm dynamic specs but the 16.3 lbs Yamaha RX-V375 does specify 180W 2 ohms of dynamic power. That's pretty close to the 326's 200W but again, no idea how each of them define dynamic power, nor do I know of any international standards for that matter. May be we all need to take those not well defined numbers with a grain of salt. If you are interested though, I can post a link to test bench figures for 2 ohm dynamic power for some Denon models.

IThe NAD's power consumption is at 360 watts max for 100 watts output. The Denon is 460 watts for 630 watts rated output. That doesn't really add up, does it?
It is not 360 watts, taken right from the NAD 326's manual, page 3:

"Power Consumption

Rated power 290W (ref. 230V AC 50 Hz; 120V AC 60Hz)
Standby power <1W
Idle power <35W"

Where did you get the 360 watts from? At the back of the unit it shows 120V, 3.0A, = 120X3 = 360 VA and that would equate to roughly 290W if we assume a power factor of approx. 0.8. No big deal, but I did try to be accurate and if I missed something please kindly link me to your source.

Edit: for the power consumption numbers I used the Denon E400, since that's the model that was tested in your link, and took the power consumption numbers off the back panel.
I realized that, but I quoted the E300 only because you specifically referred to the E300 in your post #11 (perhaps you made a typo), now you refer to the 400 so I took a look and found at the back of the unit it just shows 460W, it does not say maximum. I have never seen Denon provide the maximum power consumption, Yamaha and others have, but not Denon.

I am saying that the Denon will consume a max of 460 watts, a
You can say that, but Denon has not said it was maximum. If you want to make an assumption, okay, no argument from me but realize it does not make it factual.

somehow multiply it into 630 total claimed watts output to the speakers. Magic, if you will, that doesn't add up.
On page 2 of the Denon spec sheet that you can download from DENON US), it shows:

"Maximum power, 185 watts, 7 channels" That means 26.43 Watts per channel with all 7 channel driven equally and simultaneously. And that seems believable. The higher output they show are for 2 channel driven condition if I am not mistaken.

I did not see where they multipy anything up to and claimed 630 watt output to the speakers, can you provide a link?


I don't think another round of the "debate" is of any use, I only brought it up to give the OP some context and background in his deliberations. Perhaps we could refrain from our old arguments in this thread?
As far as I know we have not started an argument on this thread at all old or new. In responsed to two different posts (one from you), I provided were figures from manufacturer's documents available on their website that anyone can download and read up. Please do not take those as arguments in any form or shapes as that wasn't my intention.

As for the OP, in my response to his (post#3), I simply agree with him that he would be content with the 316 but if I were in the same situation I would opt for the 326, that was it. I never started any argument, not then and not now so peace please...........................
 
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S

sharkman

Full Audioholic
Wow Peng, you sure get wordy! I will address your comments as best I can.

Yes you are correct, I was reading the back panel of both the Denon E400(since you had mentioned it in a review) and the NAD 326. It appears that my quick and dirty method may have been off somewhat. At any rate, I am simply comparing the per channel available power, and saying that the NAD has much more per channel. Nothing more complicated than that, if you are ever puzzled at what I am getting at, simply choose the most simple option and you will probably be right!

My reference to the term argument was a poor attempt at reminding everyone here that I'm not trying to revisit it again, simply trying to give the OP some background. Nothing more complicated than that. Rest easy, Peng, I find you to be one of the more agreeable members on this forum.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
From what it sounds like, amps at a similar price point will probably sound different but not significantly. I'm probably not going to end up with an amp that sounds like garbage if I have a decent source (Dragonfly v1.2 with lossless tracks) and decent bookshelf speakers (Cambridge Newton M60's). Perhaps a spec that I should be looking out for is power to open up the possibility of upgrading to larger speakers. Using an AV amp vs an integrated is certainly a more versatile, if not slightly overwhelming option.
For your current need it is true that a lot of the features of a 5.1 or 7.2 AVR will not be used. However, you will benefit from the inherently larger power supply in a mid range 7 channel AVR than that in a similarly priced 2 channel mid range integrated amp such as those from NAD, Marantz, Anthem etc., assuming you can get the X-4000 for the low price ADTG linked.

If the X4000 is over you budget you can go back to your plan A, i.e. the 316 or 326, though again I strongly suggest the 326 is a better buy base on their much better specs and feature set. In addition to an apparently much larger power supply (3A vs 2A), the subouts, preouts and the provision to turn off the "soft clip" are worth the extra dollars IMO and you may need the subouts sooner than you think. The CSW M60 are nice but highly bass limited in anything but a small room.
 
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PrimalTrombone

Audioholic Intern
How's the DAC on the Denon X---- series? Since all of my music is digital it might be an intriguing test to compare with my Dragonfly.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
How's the DAC on the Denon X---- series? Since all of my music is digital it might be an intriguing test to compare with my Dragonfly.
The DAC in the Denon X4000 will sound as good as the Dragonfly and any other DAC.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
How's the DAC on the Denon X---- series? Since all of my music is digital it might be an intriguing test to compare with my Dragonfly.
The X4000 can play 24/192 vs the Dragonfly's 24/96 but in terms of sound quality I have no idea how they compare. Hopefully someone who own both will share their experience. IMHO, good quality DACs such as the Dragonfly and the X4000 will not be the bottleneck in most HT/Home audio systems.
 
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