Yamaha 2030 or Emotiva UMC200 and XPA 5?

[jnboone]

Just ordered my Verus Grand's, will be getting SVS PB Ultra 13, the question now is AV receiver or separates. Think I will ultimately be getting the XPA-5 regardless, but if I go for the AV receiver will have to put that off for quite a while. Basically same price for either set up. Like the thought of being able to upgrade the preamp more frequently as technology changes. Thought about waiting until the new Yammy's come out with HDMI 2.0. Don't care about multi room. Any advice?

 

[rojo]

Add the Marantz SR5008 from A4L to your list, or maybe wait and see if the 7008's Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT will have trickled down to the 6009 and 5009 when they're released in a couple months.

Just out of curiosity, what will the other 3 channels of that XPA-5 be driving?

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

 

[jnboone]

Verus Grand Towers, center, and bookshelves for surrounds. I totally get it on Audessey. It's just that I've got a budget of $1600 left for receiver or pre/pro. I will very possibly end up with 2 subs long term, but that will be quite a while. I could do without the XPA 5 and get by with just the AV receiver, but if I can make do with the UMC200, then all I'll have left to upgrade is the pre, and with the discount I'd get from Emotiva I could add the XMC1 later for $1600 (if it turns out to be as expected), or just upgrade the av receiver.
On the other hand I could spend $1600 now on the 2030, or even go with the Denon X4000 (downside being less power than the 2030-upside being Audessey), and later add the XPA5, but I will still have to ultimately upgrade the AV receiver. Gonna have to run everything of a 10 year old Pioneer Elite until I can afford to make any next purchases anyway. Just trying to figure out long term what ends up with the best system for the least amount of money.
Lastly, if the first XMC1's shipped in April does anybody know why there haven't been any reviews?

 

[rojo]

Marantz SR5008 for $550 shipped.

Something else to consider. Unless you've explicitly wired extra circuits into your home theater room, your room's 15A circuit can only handle about 1800 watts max. You've got a 1000W sub, television, source components, lights, and who knows what else in that room. Chances are you'll never be able to pull more than 125W x 5, especially if you do end up getting a second sub.

From a different angle, your Verus Grand towers are 92dB/w/m sensitivity I think. Given a THX reference goal of 105dB peaks for full-range speakers, that's 32W. Bookshelves with their 87dB sensitivity will reach 104dB with 64W. Unless you do most of your listening at reference levels, if you're like me, you'll most often be using a watt or less.

In either case, 200Wx5 is just bragging rights.

The best reasons to run a separate pre/pro are 1) for running additional processing before amplification -- for example, a MiniDSP nanoAVR, or maybe a tube pre-amp; 2) for driving more difficult 4-ohm speakers; or 3) abundance of money and fondness for gadgets. If none of those describes you, I think you'll be better off powering your speakers with an AVR. With that said, I would either get the Denon X4000 now, or wait a couple of months and see what capabilities the Marantz SR5009 and 6009 will carry. If I were you, I'd wait.

XMC1s haven't had any reviews because people have been mesmerized by their audio to the point of giving up on life. I guess.

 

[jnboone]

Now that's news you can use! Thank you very very much!! I've been waiting almost two years already. A couple of more months is a walk in the park.

 

[j_garcia]

I'm going to have to disagree with that. 200W is definitely not bragging rights and while it is true the typical system only uses about 5-10W average, peaks definitely will NOT be limited to a calculated wattage and there are other factors such as the room and listening habits. Impedance varies with frequency, so saying that a speaker will "only" use a calculated wattage is a bit misleading as those peaks can realistically require 100W of actual power or more depending on the desired SPL. That doesn't mean everyone should run out and get 200W, but in my experience, I've found that most AVRs don't deliver the kind of power that I usually ask of it. I currently run 8 Ohm speakers with 86dB sensitivity and they sound fine with my 50W A100 amp, but I can definitely tell when they hit the amp's limits compared to when they were on my XPA-3.

15A circuit also isn't an issue for a 200W amp given that you won't be using 200W constantly; and likely rarely even with peaks would that ever happen.

XMC1 isn't out yet and beta testers likely wouldn't be allowed to comment yet.

The UMC-200 is a good pre/pro and has a lot of positives. A good AVR like the X4000 or a comparable Marantz isn't going to disappoint though. The EMO-Q calibration is actually pretty good, but it isn't as comprehensive as Audessey.

 

[rojo]

I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with... most of that. I'll also grant you the usual stuff that some AVR makers inflate numbers, no real adhered standard for manufacturer-supplied specs, blah blah blah.

However, my AVR is thoroughly capable of annoying and painful levels while maintaining crystal clarity. Then again, my room at ~2300ft³ might be smaller than yours. My biggest issue, though, is that 200 watts results in 3dB gain over 100 watts. Is that extra 3dB worth $1000?

jnboone: Which do you value more: the extra 3dB of clean volume offered by an XPA-5, or the room correction of a Denon X4000 (or potentially the Marantz SR?009 when the specs are revealed)? Remember that with the XPA-5 route + a Marantz SR5008 for example, you still get Audyssey XT which is very capable. It just might be more difficult to correct that second sub when you get it in a year or two.

 

[j_garcia]

I don't disagree, the first step would be to start with an AVR and see if that's sufficient, and in many cases it WILL be. If it isn't, then with one of those AVRs, you'd still be able to add a XPA-3 or -5 to supplement power, which is what I initially did as well. I had a pretty hefty Marantz 8300 rated at 120W but it wasn't enough for my 4 Ohm speakers, so I added the XPA-3 and never looked back. When it started to fail, I tried the UMC-200 out and used one of my other random amps to power the surrounds, which in most cases, will not demand nearly as much power as the front stage, which is where you'll likely want the amplification. Now that I stepped down to 8 Ohm speakers, I don't really need that 200W, but I have it and the UMC-200 is only a pre/pro, so that's how it is

 

[PENG]

That doesn't mean everyone should run out and get 200W

I agree with everything else you said in your post but especially the quoted part. Definitely not "everyone" as I am one of those who only need less than 0.5W/channel (L/R/C) average and 20 to 30W max peak, but I rarely turned things up above 80 dB SPL average. If I factor in 20 dB of peaks in the music, I will almost never hit 30W per channel except for some self inflicted crazy moments.

I do like the bragging rights of having almost 1800W on hand in my HT system not counting the 2 powered subs and not having to worry about distortion due to overloading under any conditions. So rojo is also right about that.. Basically I believe one can't have too much power whether one needs much or not.

 

[herbu]

"200Wx5 is just bragging rights"... YES!

"A good AVR like the X4000 or a comparable Marantz isn't going to disappoint"... YES!

"the first step would be to start with an AVR and see if that's sufficient"... YES!

"Is that extra 3dB worth $1000?"... YES!

"one can't have too much power whether one needs much or not"... YES!

 

[rojo]

"200Wx5 is just bragging rights"... YES!

"A good AVR like the X4000 or a comparable Marantz isn't going to disappoint"... YES!

"the first step would be to start with an AVR and see if that's sufficient"... YES!

"Is that extra 3dB worth $1000?"... YES!

"one can't have too much power whether one needs much or not"... YES!

LOL glad you approve!

 

[rnatalli]

$1,600 budget for just the pre/pro, I'd go with the Anthem 510.

 

[PENG]

Just ordered my Verus Grand's, will be getting SVS PB Ultra 13, the question now is AV receiver or separates. Think I will ultimately be getting the XPA-5 regardless, but if I go for the AV receiver will have to put that off for quite a while. Basically same price for either set up. Like the thought of being able to upgrade the preamp more frequently as technology changes. Thought about waiting until the new Yammy's come out with HDMI 2.0. Don't care about multi room. Any advice?

It is best to wait imho if you can because either you may like the newer models, or the price of the outgoing models. Yamaha AVRs are great unless you think you can benefit from the REQ systems. In my rooms, one benefits from it while the other does not as it sound the same with and without it. It does do a reasonably job with the subs though in any case. If you do value REQ, then consider the Anthem or Denon/Marantz models and convince yourself whether they are better than Yamaha's own YPAO. Audyssey's DEQ does seem to have consistently good reviews so if you listen to relatively lower SPL like below 80 dB average, it will be a factor too.

 

[jnboone]

Thank you all! A little more info might help me along the way. Getting divorced and will be moving, so I don't have any idea what room I will ultimately be setting up. Most likely will be main living area which will probably be very open space. First sub will most likely be SVS SB13 with a second down the road - though wondering if better off to buy two smaller ones initially. Hate the thought of having to get rid of them later and upgrade both. Based on y'alls advice (yes I live in Memphis!) the UMC 200 is out. Appears I will be waiting on new offerings from Anthem, Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha - but I can't wait more than a couple of months, so timing of new releases may become an issue, and I'm not naive enough to include the new Emotiva unit in that list. I still believe I will ultimately end up with the XPA 5 BUT based on your wisdom I will see what I get out of the AVR before I make that leap, and could end up with a second SB13 beforehand that way (if I don't change my mind and go with two smaller subs initially).

As I won't be buying a house anytime soon there will probably be another move at least before I'm able to dedicate to 7.x or higher. My main goal is to have a great setup that my kids and I can truly enjoy watching movies, and I can enjoy music when they're not with me - yes I am buying all this and doing without any bedroom furniture for myself. Had a wise friend say that when money was tight, the only thing he spent money on was things that created time with his kids.

Why is it that nobody seems to build a pre/pro with upper end AVR features simply minus the amps for less money than the upper end AVR's? Seems like to get the upper end AVR features in a pre/pro that you are spending as much or more for just the pre/pro. Am I missing something? Again, THANK YOU for the great advice!!