Buy or lease... BMW or Ford...

[Sheep]

Agreed that the interiors of most BMW's are quite subpar. It's what keeps my wife from liking them. Really sucks, I wish they had Audi interiors.

That was the FRS (Scion Subaru 2 door sport car). I actually really like BMW interiors.

SheepStar

 

[gene]

Sheep have you seen/driven a new Acura TLX yet? What will the price be on a V6 Auto? Will they offer Sport Suspension? I don't really want SH-AWD b/c of cost and weight. Just wondering. thx.

 

[Sheep]

A 4G TL with SHAWD is about 500lbs heavier than a 3G TL so not sure how you are coming up with it being "lighter". The SHAWD is a bit faster than a TL Type S but the base 4G TL is not.

I meant in the driving feeling, sorry should have been more clear. Yes it's heavier in physical weight, but the high belt line and added bulk is what is getting it a 5 star/good/whatever rating in all the trash tests (even small overlap).

What sucks is Acura had a winning car with the 3G TL. All they had to do was fix the interior noise issues, quit the cabin a bit, make it RWD, offer the 3.7L engine with an 8 speed auto and manual option, and it would have been a huge success as a 4G. Instead they made a bloated car that looks like a Transformer and is MUCH larger than a 3G TL despite having almost the same interior volume of a 3G. Bad design IMO.

The size increase is for safety (and cabin space, which was class leading at the time). That is more important to a Manu then the small percentage of buyers looking for performance. Remember you're a data blip when you ask for RWD Twin Turbo V8 drift hoon mobile. Most people don't think like that, they buy based on fuel costs, safety, features, and space. Also something I want to point out that you all have forgotten, is when the 3G TL came out it was called boring, dull, bland. If you want to blame the styling on anyone, blame it on those people who complained so loudly that they forced Acura to turn up the style in a direction they were not familiar with. You should also know it costs roughly 1 billion dollars to engineer a car from the ground up. Doing stuff like RWD longitudinal mounted engines and 8 speed autoboxes costs dollar dollar bills. Kickstarter the next TL?

The RLX is just not doing well at all sales wise. My local dealer was offering them $12k off sticker price to move them.

No one really expected it to outsell anyone really, just to be a better car and better value then the outgoing RL (Which was nearly 70g in Canada). On paper it's a fantastic car, but the buyers it targets go for badge recognition and it just doesn't have any of that.

I always hear the argument about how unreliable German cars are when I step into an Acura dealer. However, I have a few friends that have had GREAT luck with Mercedes and even BMW's. Mercedes actually gets pretty high marks for reliability in CR and JD Power and BMW is improving for the most part. I owned a Volkswagen Jetta TDI for about 8 months and never had a problem with it. I traded it only to get a bigger van to meet family needs but that car was solid.

I have an X5 in the shop right now. We have had one in the past that came in for an oil change and air filters. Uses 5w30 Synthetic oil (non euro spec) which we have here. Came back with rough idle and loss of power. Tried BMW branded oil, still rough. The rocker all assemblies had failed, and it was so common I found the full repair procedure and part numbers off google in 5 minutes. Coworker from when I was at Lexus at a 135i convertible (a dream car to me, minus the convertible). He was on his 3rd high pressure fuel pump. They couldn't fix it at the time, the reworked pumps still failed. Not saying they will all be bad, but when the majority lease, they don't see the problems. And when they follow the stupid maintenance plans, the lease returned cars are ticking time bombs.

I have someone coming out tomorrow to offer me $15k for my 07 TLS with 85k miles. One thing about Acura, they hold their value! That's a good price considering I bought it used back in 09 with 10k miles for $27k. I can't fault the fact that I owned this car for 5.5 years and it only cost me $12k to own it in that time period. Not sure I can replicate that formula with a BMW or Mercedes. I'm really thinking about leasing now b/c in 2017-2018 I think there will be some solid Electric options that are both affordable and appealing. Go Tesla!

I've driven a Tesla Model S before. If you can afford one and your life doesn't involve long road trips, it's the best thing out there.

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

Sheep have you seen/driven a new Acura TLX yet? What will the price be on a V6 Auto? Will they offer Sport Suspension? I don't really want SH-AWD b/c of cost and weight. Just wondering. thx.

Hasn't hit the dealers yet. I will let you know once I get some seat time.

EDIT: Here is the current web site for the TLX. Gotta say the rims look much better then what was rolling around on the spy shot car.
http://www.acura.com/TLXLanding.aspx

SheepStar

 

[gene]

I meant in the driving feeling, sorry should have been more clear. Yes it's heavier in physical weight, but the high belt line and added bulk is what is getting it a 5 star/good/whatever rating in all the trash tests (even small overlap).



The size increase is for safety (and cabin space, which was class leading at the time). That is more important to a Manu then the small percentage of buyers looking for performance. Remember you're a data blip when you ask for RWD Twin Turbo V8 drift hoon mobile. Most people don't think like that, they buy based on fuel costs, safety, features, and space. Also something I want to point out that you all have forgotten, is when the 3G TL came out it was called boring, dull, bland. If you want to blame the styling on anyone, blame it on those people who complained so loudly that they forced Acura to turn up the style in a direction they were not familiar with. You should also know it costs roughly 1 billion dollars to engineer a car from the ground up. Doing stuff like RWD longitudinal mounted engines and 8 speed autoboxes costs dollar dollar bills. Kickstarter the next TL?



No one really expected it to outsell anyone really, just to be a better car and better value then the outgoing RL (Which was nearly 70g in Canada). On paper it's a fantastic car, but the buyers it targets go for badge recognition and it just doesn't have any of that.



I have an X5 in the shop right now. We have had one in the past that came in for an oil change and air filters. Uses 5w30 Synthetic oil (non euro spec) which we have here. Came back with rough idle and loss of power. Tried BMW branded oil, still rough. The rocker all assemblies had failed, and it was so common I found the full repair procedure and part numbers off google in 5 minutes. Coworker from when I was at Lexus at a 135i convertible (a dream car to me, minus the convertible). He was on his 3rd high pressure fuel pump. They couldn't fix it at the time, the reworked pumps still failed. Not saying they will all be bad, but when the majority lease, they don't see the problems. And when they follow the stupid maintenance plans, the lease returned cars are ticking time bombs.



I've driven a Tesla Model S before. If you can afford one and your life doesn't involve long road trips, it's the best thing out there.

SheepStar

Good points. However I don't want a V8. I want a 300hp V6 RWD car that gets 20mpg+ city and 30mpg+ highway that comfortably seats 4 people. That was why I was thinking a 2012 BMW 335i which has high JD Power ratings for reliability. Oddly the 2013 model appears to be a lemon. No idea why. That's what always worries me about BMW's.

I also really like the Mercedes C350 Sport but I can't justify almost $50k for a car ATM.

 

[Sheep]

Good points. However I don't want a V8. I want a 300hp V6 RWD car that gets 20mpg+ city and 30mpg+ highway that comfortably seats 4 people. That was why I was thinking a 2012 BMW 335i which has high JD Power ratings for reliability. Oddly the 2013 model appears to be a lemon. No idea why. That's what always worries me about BMW's.

I also really like the Mercedes C350 Sport but I can't justify almost $50k for a car ATM.

I'm with you. I should state that I agree with you (all of you) about where Acura came from, and where they are. I'm just as much of a car enthusiast as you guys (if not bigger). I want a Sports car, I want a coupe, and I want some RWD going on. End of the day I don't have control over that. What I can control, is misinformation, especially when it revolves around the cars I've driven.

As for what you're looking for, the Current GS should be able to solve that problem (don't know about cost though). I find it to be the least ugly car in their lineup.

SheepStar

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have an X5 in the shop right now. We have had one in the past that came in for an oil change and air filters. Uses 5w30 Synthetic oil (non euro spec) which we have here. Came back with rough idle and loss of power. Tried BMW branded oil, still rough.

I'm sorry, Sheep, but this is just silly. There is no way for motor oil, no matter how far off spec, to cause a rough idle. Worse yet, any shop or tech who believes that oil caused it, enough to change the oil again as a potential solution, is incompetent. There's no other way to say it. If I changed the oil and put in a new air filter and the customer complained of a rough idle the first thing I would do is check to see if the air filter changing procedure caused a PCV-system vacuum leak. That's the 95% probability cause. All of the valve train rockers were bad? Did you guys then charge this victim for a valve train rebuild?

 

[3db]

Under acceleration (especially hard, off the line style) 70% of power is going to the rear wheels. It says that in my post. The weight will shift to those wheels just like a RWD car under acceleration.

SheepStar

Less weight is shifted to the rear wheels on an AWD with less than full power to the rear wheels than a rear wheel drive.

 

[Sheep]

I'm sorry, Sheep, but this is just silly. There is no way for motor oil, no matter how far off spec, to cause a rough idle. Worse yet, any shop or tech who believes that oil caused it, enough to change the oil again as a potential solution, is incompetent. There's no other way to say it. If I changed the oil and put in a new air filter and the customer complained of a rough idle the first thing I would do is check to see if the air filter changing procedure caused a PCV-system vacuum leak. That's the 95% probability cause. All of the valve train rockers were bad? Did you guys then charge this victim for a valve train rebuild?

I said the same thing to the tech, I didn't want to order BMW oil either but I'm not the guy that makes the call (or takes the blame). Being a car that is not something we normally service (it's an Acura shop) they don't have the in depth knowledge that a BMW tech would have. The rough idle was from miss fires, which is not likely in the PCV system. Car was a 2006 BMW X5 with the 4.4 or 4.8L V8 (can't remember which).

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

Less weight is shifted to the rear wheels on an AWD with less than full power to the rear wheels than a rear wheel drive.

All things you've never experienced before because you've never driven one. I've driven lots of RWD cars, and I don't find this to drive like a FWD car. Odd how you discover these things AFTER you try it. I mean, you don't go making speaker recommendations or slamming other speakers you haven't heard, but it's ok to do that with a car? Just to help you with your point of view, when I started here I thought they were ugly, stupid, etc etc. I had the SAME POV as you. Now I love 'em.

SheepStar

 

[3db]

All things you've never experienced before because you've never driven one. I've driven lots of RWD cars, and I don't find this to drive like a FWD car. Odd how you discover these things AFTER you try it. I mean, you don't go making speaker recommendations or slamming other speakers you haven't heard, but it's ok to do that with a car? Just to help you with your point of view, when I started here I thought they were ugly, stupid, etc etc. I had the SAME POV as you. Now I love 'em.

SheepStar

I will drive one but I doubt very much you can hang the *** out of the car using the throttle.

 

[3db]

I said the same thing to the tech, I didn't want to order BMW oil either but I'm not the guy that makes the call (or takes the blame). Being a car that is not something we normally service (it's an Acura shop) they don't have the in depth knowledge that a BMW tech would have. The rough idle was from miss fires, which is not likely in the PCV system. Car was a 2006 BMW X5 with the 4.4 or 4.8L V8 (can't remember which).

SheepStar

One also needs to assess the service records to see if this guy was a bonehead and missed key service points.

 

[Sheep]

I will drive one but I doubt very much you can hang the *** out of the car using the throttle.

One also needs to assess the service records to see if this guy was a bonehead and missed key service points.

I've done it, it's not as easy to do with a dedicated RWD car, but you can get it sliding.

I don't think we had any service history, but with BMW service intervals being 20,000 plus kilometers (a regular car is 8,000) you can bank on it being destroyed if it followed the BMW plan.

SheepStar

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I got behind the steering wheel of this today when I was dropping my Q5 off at Audi for it's scheduled service. They told me to get out of it!!!!!

I was like PHHTTT...it's a measly $236,000 car and I have on my good dress pants from Kohl's.

 

[Sheep]

I got behind the steering wheel of this today when I was dropping my Q5 off at Audi for it's scheduled service. They told me to get out of it!!!!!

I was like PHHTTT...it's a measly $236,000 car and I have on my good dress pants from Kohl's.

I sat in one of those at the auto show. It was very underwhelming inside. Mind you, I can sit in a Bentley 5 days a week so......

Car I lust after the most right now is the Jag F type coupe. Best thing out there to me.

SheepStar

 

[gene]

Sheep;

I hear the 4cyl TLX will have a sport suspension but the 6cyl will not. If that's true, that's a real shame b/c I don't want a 4 banger but I do want sport suspension. After looking at the market in the $40k segment, the TLX seems like it will be a good deal since Audi's are all FWD in that price range and BMW/Mercedes give you hamster engines in that price range.

My option now is a used BMW 335i, Mercedes C300 or C350 Sport or Audi (S4 but doubtful) CPO to 100k miles or wait to lease a new TLX.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Sheep;

I hear the 4cyl TLX will have a sport suspension but the 6cyl will not. If that's true, that's a real shame b/c I don't want a 4 banger but I do want sport suspension. After looking at the market in the $40k segment, the TLX seems like it will be a good deal since Audi's are all FWD in that price range and BMW/Mercedes give you hamster engines in that price range.

My option now is a used BMW 335i, Mercedes C300 or C350 Sport or Audi (S4 but doubtful) CPO to 100k miles or wait to lease a new TLX.

Gene, have you looked at the Mercedes CLA?
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/model/class-CLA/model-CLA45

AMG looks pretty sporty on paper, 4-cylinder, list is 47k, and AMGs generally have pretty aggressive suspension.

 

[3db]

Gene, have you looked at the Mercedes CLA?
All-New 2014 CLA45 AMG 4-Door Coupe | Mercedes-Benz

AMG looks pretty sporty on paper, 4-cylinder, list is 47k, and AMGs generally have pretty aggressive suspension.

I gotta wonder what the life span of a 2 Lire 355hp engine is? Thats alot of power for so small a displacement.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I gotta wonder what the life span of a 2 Lire 355hp engine is? Thats alot of power for so small a displacement.

I bet its a good engine, that's sorta AMG's thing. Turbocharged, DOHC, probably makes it at a high rpm (low mass, so can turn it higher). Torque is the more relevant, and, seems to be torque deficient or just too heavy: 0-60mph in 4.4s (not a great judge of performance, but, would expect a compact with that much power to accelerate faster).

I'd be more worried about the gearbox than the engine, personally hehe. And brake cooling if its that heavy and you plan to drive it on a track hehe.

But - Mercedes I've had good luck with. Think they're always worth a peek if in ones pricerange. That said, never been in a CLA. (Been in an A in Europe and it was pretty cool ride though).

 

[Sheep]

Sheep;

I hear the 4cyl TLX will have a sport suspension but the 6cyl will not. If that's true, that's a real shame b/c I don't want a 4 banger but I do want sport suspension. After looking at the market in the $40k segment, the TLX seems like it will be a good deal since Audi's are all FWD in that price range and BMW/Mercedes give you hamster engines in that price range.

My option now is a used BMW 335i, Mercedes C300 or C350 Sport or Audi (S4 but doubtful) CPO to 100k miles or wait to lease a new TLX.

I would doubt that. Again, the release date for Canada is in July, so I don't have a car here or any of the learning modules for training. I know the 4G TL had more aggressive/sporty/firm suspension on the SH-AWD model compared to the base. I think though that Acura will have a fairly sporty setup regardless of trim, this is a sport sedan after all. ALL versions of the TLX will have P-AWS except for the SH-AWD model, so handling should be very good regardless of trim. The more I see the car, the more I like it. Wonder what my staff pricing would be...

SheepStar