AV receiver advice

[agarwalro]

How does the new S series denon compare to X series? For example upcoming AVR-S900W.

Denon S-Series A/V Receivers Preview | Audioholics

Does Audyssey help with Stereo sound. When i tried Audyssey MultEQ with sr5003 i felt like the quality was much worse.

Room correction is dependent on many factors, speakers, room, and it very very sensitive to mic placement. Did you try is multiple times and get bad results every time?

There are few ways to look at it... 1) Some folks have sub optimal setups and room correction overcompensates, making the situation worse; 2) You may not prefer the accurate sound created by the room correction 3) Due to incorrect readings, mic placement issues or bad mic the filters were not created correctly.

It works for 2.0 or 2.1 sound too. My setup is currently 2.1 and it hugely improved my sound. Here are the results from two different receivers with Audyssey XT32, http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/write-your-own-review/87483-tale-two-receivers-onkyo-nr818-denon-x4000.html

 

[bwspot]

Denon S-Series A/V Receivers Preview | Audioholics

Room correction is dependent on many factors, speakers, room, and it very very sensitive to mic placement. Did you try is multiple times and get bad results every time?

There are few ways to look at it... 1) Some folks have sub optimal setups and room correction overcompensates, making the situation worse; 2) You may not prefer the accurate sound created by the room correction 3) Due to incorrect readings, mic placement issues or bad mic the filters were not created correctly.

It works for 2.0 or 2.1 sound too. My setup is currently 2.1 and it hugely improved my sound. Here are the results from two different receivers with Audyssey XT32, http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/write-your-own-review/87483-tale-two-receivers-onkyo-nr818-denon-x4000.html

thx for the link, i will definitely read it. I see you have interesting and simple setup. How those speakers work for you?

 

[agarwalro]

I see you have interesting and simple setup. How those speakers work for you?

I really like them. For $200 I have exactly 0 complaints. Even in my current mid-field setup I have very good sound. In my previous use as computer speakers, in a smaller office type space, with some room treatment, I was absolutely amazed with the crystal clear flat sound I had achieved. Here is my FR from then, with a sub crossed over at 80Hz. The crash above 10KHz is a measurement artifact since my Radio Shack SPL Meter was doubling up as the measurement mic.

Only when I push them, I'm talking, hear my music in the hallway outside my apartment levels, does the speaker start to show signs of distress.

 

[bwspot]

I really like them. For $200 I have exactly 0 complaints. Even in my current mid-field setup I have very good sound. In my previous use as computer speakers, in a smaller office type space, with some room treatment, I was absolutely amazed with the crystal clear flat sound I had achieved. Here is my FR from then, with a sub crossed over at 80Hz. The crash above 10KHz is a measurement artifact since my Radio Shack SPL Meter was doubling up as the measurement mic.

Only when I push them, I'm talking, hear my music in the hallway outside my apartment levels, does the speaker start to show signs of distress.

Nice. My dad was looking for smaller speakers like that.

 

[bwspot]

Denon support wrote this to me today:

"
Denon and Marantz while owned by the same company will sound completely different. Denon will provide you with a bright sound while Marantz will provide you with a warmer sound.
"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Does Audyssey help with Stereo sound. When i tried Audyssey MultEQ with sr5003 i felt like the quality was much worse.

IMO, it helps significantly only if you use subs or if your towers have bass that can be actively bi-amped.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon support wrote this to me today:

"
Denon and Marantz while owned by the same company will sound completely different. Denon will provide you with a bright sound while Marantz will provide you with a warmer sound.
"

He's clueless.

That's why I never call customer support. They are like the guys at Best Buy stores - utterly clueless.

 

[PENG]

He's clueless.

That's why I never call customer support. They are like the guys at Best Buy stores - utterly clueless.

I once wrote to a reputable manufacturer about difference between their current model amp and the previous model. The sales chief wrote back and told me they were both good but were voiced differently. Then later on I wrote to their chief designer engineer/founder or cofounder and was told they were both good but only the "you", meaning me, can tell whether they sound different. In other words, he wasn't claiming any such "difference". Those voicing talks are absolutely illogical if they claim transparency and accuracy at the same time.

I like what McIntosh said in their FAQ:

"Performance between tube and transistor gear is almost identical in technical specifications, Many users request vacuum tube units that offer a slightly classical ‘tube’ sound, “warm” sound to the audio presentation. Tube and transistor models may be mixed and will all work together in a McIntosh component stereo. Download music. Many now use downloaded music as their main media source. Sound quality will always depend on the quality of the download files and the music system interface. McIntosh offers the most advanced computer USB interface in C48, C50 and MCD1100 which will maximize audio performance. Alas, we cannot make a low quality sound source high quality."

Bright or warm, it's the recording that counts most.

 

[bwspot]

Denon S-Series A/V Receivers Preview | Audioholics

Room correction is dependent on many factors, speakers, room, and it very very sensitive to mic placement. Did you try is multiple times and get bad results every time?

There are few ways to look at it... 1) Some folks have sub optimal setups and room correction overcompensates, making the situation worse; 2) You may not prefer the accurate sound created by the room correction 3) Due to incorrect readings, mic placement issues or bad mic the filters were not created correctly.

It works for 2.0 or 2.1 sound too. My setup is currently 2.1 and it hugely improved my sound. Here are the results from two different receivers with Audyssey XT32, http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/write-your-own-review/87483-tale-two-receivers-onkyo-nr818-denon-x4000.html

Your post inspired me do get the UMIK-1 and test it when i get my receiver.

 

[agarwalro]

Your post inspired me do get the UMIK-1 and test it when i get my receiver.

Come to the dark side my child...

 

[bwspot]

Your speakers are active speakers so how you drive them with x4000?
thx

 

[agarwalro]

Your speakers are active speakers so how you drive them with x4000?

The X4000 has 9.2 pre-outs.

 

[bwspot]

The X4000 has 9.2 pre-outs.

I wonder if the measurements would be much different then if you would have not active speakers but exactly same hardware?
What i am trying to ask if the not regular speakers out signal might be worse or better then preout if that make sense?

 

[agarwalro]

I wonder if the measurements would be much different then if you would have not active speakers but exactly same hardware?
What i am trying to ask if the not regular speakers out signal might be worse or better then preout if that make sense?

If the passive speakers had exactly identical sound characteristics, I'm sure the Denon amps would have the power to drive them cleanly. Assuming, identical sonic characteristics between active and passive speakers, once level matched, theoretically, there should be no difference.

I have passive speakers on order, so the Denon amps will get tested out in the second half of June. I won't be able to make an apples to apples comparison thought, the new setup will be in a different league compared to the current 2.1 setup.

 

[bwspot]

If the passive speakers had exactly identical sound characteristics, I'm sure the Denon amps would have the power to drive them cleanly. Assuming, identical sonic characteristics between active and passive speakers, once level matched, theoretically, there should be no difference.

I have passive speakers on order, so the Denon amps will get tested out in the second half of June. I won't be able to make an apples to apples comparison thought, the new setup will be in a different league compared to the current 2.1 setup.

What speakers did you order if I might ask?

 

[3db]

Denon support wrote this to me today:

"
Denon and Marantz while owned by the same company will sound completely different. Denon will provide you with a bright sound while Marantz will provide you with a warmer sound.
"

No wonder the audio industry is such a sham. Even companies like D&M holdings continue on with BS snake oil that is prevalent in the audio industry. I bet you dollars to donuts that if you asked one of their engineers that design the amps they would secretly tell you that the answer is just a crock of pregnant moose dung...... which is not as bright as non pregnant moose dung.

To the OP, don't swallow that answer. Its just WRONG.

 

[agarwalro]

What speakers did you order if I might ask?

Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2
Rythmik Audio E15HP (2x)

 

[bwspot]

Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2
Rythmik Audio E15HP (2x)

I see you prefer 2.1 setup over plain 2. Is it because the floor standing speakers cannot produce pure frequency tones?

 

[agarwalro]

I see you prefer 2.1 setup over plain 2. Is it because the floor standing speakers cannot produce pure frequency tones?

I am a bassholic and this setup is used for music and movies.. No tower in my $3.5-4K budget would have come close to the type of clean loud sound the dual EP15HPs will give me.

Towers that can do justice to the bass frequencies, meaning play loud and clean, are very expensive (since they need to have quality drivers and crossover parts, exceptional design and over engineered construction). Then they need gobs of clean power to drive them, meaning, adding dedicated amps. By comparison, bookshelf speakers that excel in treble and mid range frequencies are readily available in the $1500-2000 range. Subwoofers that excel in bass frequencies are readily available in the $1500-2000. I feel that in the $3-5K range, a 2.2 setup with bookshelf speakers and subwoofers (with good bass management) will yield better results than 2.0 towers in the same price range.

Further, the location of tower for 2.0 may not necessarily be the best location for the optimal reproduction of bass frequencies. Subwoofers make this a non issue since they can be placed exactly at the best spot for a source of bass frequencies.

When I have a dedicated home theater, the JTR Noesis 215RT ($7K/pair, play to 18Hz 128dB no sub needed) and Seaton Sound Captivator 12C ($7K/pair active tri-amp) towers would be first on my audition list.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Further, the location of tower for 2.0 may not necessarily be the best location for the optimal reproduction of bass frequencies. Subwoofers make this a non issue since they can be placed exactly at the best spot for a source of bass frequencies.

Where do you think most people place their 2 subwoofers, though?

If the best location is in the middle of the room, I don't think people would do that.

Most people just place their 2 subs on both sides of the front of the room or hidden out of sight altogether.

So I would like to know where most people place their subs.