MB Quart Vera VS1SW or SVS PB-2000 or Dayton DIY kit?

[rojo]

So, my 120-watt JBL has been a faithful companion for over half my life, but it's time to find something a little tighter and more musical I think. I'm considering the following choices:

• MB Quart Vera VS1SW
• SVS PB-2000 (Outlet special with minor cosmetic damage)
• Dual driver Dayton Audio RS1202K (DIY kit)

The SVS will give me 100 more watts RMS than the Quart, 3Hz deeper low end, a DC trigger I can use for auto on, and a 5 year warranty. And it's one or two dozen pounds lighter, which will make it easier to tote upstairs without trying to figure out how to strap it to a dolly.

But the Quart is so sexy. Specs on it are scant; but if it's anything like my Vera bookshelfs, I believe this sub's 400 watts is honest, its 20Hz bottom is probably @3dB dropoff, and its retail price and discount aren't that far exaggerated.

Or should I save a little more for the Dayton Audio DIY kit? It's a monster at about 150lbs, but I feel comfortable taking it to my home theater room in pieces and assembling there. It's got a ludicrous 950W RMS rating and adds a parametric EQ, but no DC trigger or defeatable auto-on that I see. My room is on a 15A circuit, so I daresay it would never see the full 950W ever.

My room is 12x20x10. The sub will sit behind my home theater seats, which sit in a row about 2 or 3 feet from the back wall (pic). Currently, my JBL's gain is set to about 9 o'clock with my receiver's sub out set +6.0dB for movies / +7.5dB for music. I almost never have my volume above 60 (-15dB reference IIRC) -- most often it's around 30. The biggest thing I want to upgrade is the responsiveness and transparency. My current sub bass is a little muddy, and peaks / thumps occasionally sound more like speaker than like music or effect, if that makes sense. Also, since I'm sitting so close to the subwoofer, I usually hear bass stronger in my left ear (which raises the appeal of the dual-driver Dayton and the down-firing MB Quart). Auto-on annoys me because I often have my system turned down too low for the sub to turn on, even with the sub's gain turned down and the receiver's LFE turned up.

Recommendations? I'd like to stay around $700. (If you're going to recommend dual subs + some sort of DSP, bear in mind that my receiver doesn't offer SubEQ, and I have no suitable mic or meter. That stuff'll have to be budgeted.) I'm currently sitting on about $500 and can realistically add about $100 a month or so if I have a goal in mind.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, if you are looking for musical, the SB-2000 is probably what you should consider since it is sealed. The PB-2000 will definitely still be an improvement in SQ and output I'm sure though. Of the ones listed, I'd probably opt for the SVS.

There's this also: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX Powered Subwoofer

MSRP is irrelevant for big names like MBQ as items like that almost never get sold at that price. It does look like a nice sub, but without any measurements to compare it to something else, its hard to say if it is worth it.

Dual woofers won't change you hearing more bass on one side if the sub sits on one side of you.

 

[shadyJ]

I would say if your main priority is music, go for the Dayton, but if you want deep bass for movies, go for the SVS. The drivers which the Dayton use, the HF Reference, are pretty good. Two of them will give you very low distortion output above 30 Hz. Below 30 Hz the SVS should have more output. What's nice about the Dayton cabinet is it's overbuilt, and when you add the cancelling force of opposing drivers, it should be totally inert. You could probably set anything on top of it without problems.

 

[rojo]

IMO, if you are looking for musical, the SB-2000 is probably what you should consider since it is sealed. The PB-2000 will definitely still be an improvement in SQ and output I'm sure though. Of the ones listed, I'd probably opt for the SVS.

I thought about the SB-2000 but I didn't see any outlet deals today. Maybe by the time I save up another couple hundred bucks one will creep onto their scratch 'n dent list. I think you're right that I would probably prefer a sealed box.

There's this also: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX Powered Subwoofer

That's a good one for me to add for consideration. I thought about getting a Hsu and trying it out with various permutations of plugged ports as well. I think ultimately the trigger jack on the SVS's amp is what swayed me to put SVS on my list rather than Hsu. I think I'll probably consider the SB-2000 over the Outlaw for the same reason.

MSRP is irrelevant for big names like MBQ as items like that almost never get sold at that price. It does look like a nice sub, but without any measurements to compare it to something else, its hard to say if it is worth it.

I don't completely disagree with you here. But I do know that my fronts are worth much more than I paid for them, and probably much more than Maxxsonics paid for them when MBQ got dumped for bankruptcy by Fosgate. I've no doubt that sub's a bargain. I just wish I knew how it compared to the others on my list, as they're probably all comparable to more expensive branded subs.

Dual woofers won't change you hearing more bass on one side if the sub sits on one side of you.

I'd toyed with the idea of putting the Dayton directly in the center of the back wall, having each driver fire at a corner 5 feet away. I guess it's not really something I could count on unless it was in my house and I could audition it, though. You're right. I shouldn't base my decision on something that'll most likely be a failed hack.

I would say if your main priority is music, go for the Dayton, but if you want deep bass for movies, go for the SVS. The drivers which the Dayton use, the HF Reference, are pretty good. Two of them will give you very low distortion output above 30 Hz. Below 30 Hz the SVS should have more output. What's nice about the Dayton cabinet is it's overbuilt, and when you add the cancelling force of opposing drivers, it should be totally inert. You could probably set anything on top of it without problems.

The more I think about it, the more I'm talking myself out of the Dayton. It seems like overkill for my small room, and I'd like to get a sub that the auto on can be triggered by powering on my receiver, or at least defeated outright. I really like the idea of its amp's parametric EQ though. Then again, if the EQ were a requirement, I could just add a miniDSP to whichever sub I end up with. Maybe that'll be a future purchase anyway.

 

[Lulimet]

I posted this review of the Vera sub in the MBQ thread. I don't know if you saw it but here it is again. The review is from someone from another forum.

Well, I got the MB Quart after all and have been testing it out for the last couple of weeks. After having two SVS ISD driver-based subs, I can say the MB Quart is a far more musical, very tight sounding, easy to integrate subwoofer, almost like picking up a REL subwoofer for a much lower cost. It won't shake the foundations of a house, but its bass is much more controlled, and it still has plenty of impact for movies. Sound effects are much better defined and seem to hit more sharply. SVS does the impressive house shaking, room pressurizing thing very well though.

The design of the MB Quart is one downfiring active driver, with two passive drivers angled at 45 degrees to the front. Shipping weight was 135 lbs, so actual weight on the unit is a little over 100 lbs. The cabinet surround is real joined wood, very solid high-end construction throughout with an XLR input and remote volume control to boot. I've paired the subwoofer with a pair of LSi9's now with extremely good results, so good that I decided to remove a pair of SDA-1Cs from the front of my theater system. The MB Quart is a keeper.

 

[rojo]

I posted this review of the Vera sub in the MBQ thread. I don't know if you saw it but here it is again. The review is from someone from another forum.

Yeah, I saw that. Earlier in the thread, that same person who wrote that also posted a pic of the sub with MS Paint boobies on the grille.

Other than brief side mentions from reviews of the entire Vera line focusing primarily on the floorstanders, that's really the only opinion longer than a sentence or two I've read about the Vera sub.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

 

[rojo]

Or, there's someone selling a 12" Paradigm sub (appears to be a PW-2200) for $200 locally on Craigslist. I could get that + this Anti-Mode 8033Cinema room correcting DSP, and this combo would still be the cheapest thing on my list + would give me the benefits I'm missing by not having SubEQ. Hmmm.... Any opinions on the Paradigm PW-2200 or the Anti-Mode DSP?

You know, I'd even toyed with the idea of getting the DSP and just keeping my JBL sub to see how much improvement room correction can make. Since I usually have my volume at -50dB and almost never have the volume louder than -20dB, I'm starting to wonder whether I even need a new sub. I had a good sub night last night watching Bolt and Finding Nemo with my daughter.

 

[Steve81]

I would say if your main priority is music, go for the Dayton, but if you want deep bass for movies, go for the SVS. The drivers which the Dayton use, the HF Reference, are pretty good. Two of them will give you very low distortion output above 30 Hz. Below 30 Hz the SVS should have more output.

Something worth noting is that the Dayton appears to have a rumble filter implemented as the low end roll off is much steeper than expected per the manual. Output at 20Hz is on the order of 15dB down relative to 30Hz, and that's inclusive of the amplifier's built in 6dB boost at 25Hz. In simpler terms, it appears to throw away one of the big benefits of a powerful sealed subwoofer, i.e. complementing the room gain profile of a smaller room to deliver useful output down deep.

 

[crossedover]

Fwiw you can get a different amplifier and build the kit per item on the Dayton.

 

[Steve81]

A couple options I'd toss out there:

For the assemble it yourself type:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet P | 300-7094
plus
Behringer NU3000 iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier | 248-6704

As you've got two 880W channels (into 4 ohms) on tap with the iNuke, you could also add a second Dayton kit when you're ready.

For the guy who just wants a subwoofer without having to touch a screwdriver:
POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS15 Home Audio Subwoofer

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

A couple options I'd toss out there:

For the assemble it yourself type:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet P | 300-7094
plus
Behringer NU3000 iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier | 248-6704

As you've got two 880W channels (into 4 ohms) on tap with the iNuke, you could also add a second Dayton kit when you're ready.

For the guy who just wants a subwoofer without having to touch a screwdriver:
POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS15 Home Audio Subwoofer

Partially agree with that, but Josh's measurements show significant issues with high THD at low end plus for sure replace the behringer with crown drivecore XLS (1500 or higher)
Still , at that price is a great value.

Here's some discussion on the topic: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/86486-sealed-18-dayton-rss460ho-4-4-cu-ft-kit-best-thing-since-sliced-bread.html

 

[Steve81]

Partially agree with that, but Josh's measurements show significant issues with high THD at low end

Depends on how much juice you're aiming to feed it. In the nominal 110dB sweep (41V or 420W into a 4 ohm nominal load), distortion appears to be kept in check quite well. Of course the harder you push (and with no limiters and practically unlimited amplification Josh pushes HARD), the more distortion you get as you reach and exceed xmax. All said and done, you can't expect LMS Ultra performance, but considering you can get a pair of these puppies plus an amplifier for less than $1,000, it is as you say, a great value.

 

[rojo]

WTH kind of connectors are those on the back of the iNuke amp? What sort of plug would I need to use to terminate my speaker wires? And for the inputs, could I just use an RCA -> XLR converter plug, or would I need an unbalanced -> balanced converter?

 

[Steve81]

WTH kind of connectors are those on the back of the iNuke amp? What sort of plug would I need to use to terminate my speaker wires?

Outputs are SpeakOn connectors and inputs are 1/4" TRS / XLR combo jacks. If you don't want to mess with SpeakOn and XLR, the aforementioned Crown utilizes both SpeakOn and conventional binding posts as well as unbalanced inputs.

http://www.parts-express.com/crown-xls-1500-drivecore-series-power-amplifier--245-502

 

[fuzz092888]

All said and done, you can't expect LMS Ultra performance, but considering you can get a pair of these puppies plus an amplifier for less than $1,000, it is as you say, a great value.

UXL 18" + DIY Soundgroup flatpack + Crown XLS 1500 = Near LMS U performance
~$480 + ~$120 + ~$360 = ~ $960 + odds and ends (paint, screws, binding posts, etc)
(XLS 2500)~$600 = ~ $1200 + Odds and ends (paint, screws, binding posts, etc)


The only downside is that you'd have to bridge the 1500 in order to get a very much out of the sub. With the 2500, you could likely run two of the subs without clipping or overdriving the amp so long as the space you were trying to fill wasn't huge.

 

[fuzz092888]

Outputs are SpeakOn connectors and inputs are 1/4" TRS / XLR combo jacks. If you don't want to mess with SpeakOn and XLR, the aforementioned Crown utilizes both SpeakOn and conventional binding posts as well as unbalanced inputs.

Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier | 245-502

With the new IPR2, it only had speakon outputs. This has been my first dealing with speakons, and I have to say I really like them. I'll be putting them on the new sub I'm building.

 

[rojo]

Outputs are SpeakOn connectors and inputs are 1/4" TRS / XLR combo jacks. If you don't want to mess with SpeakOn and XLR, the aforementioned Crown utilizes both SpeakOn and conventional binding posts as well as unbalanced inputs.

http://www.parts-express.com/crown-xls-1500-drivecore-series-power-amplifier--245-502

Good call. But I think even this Crown XLS 1000 at 100 bucks cheaper would still be more than I would ever use. It'll supposedly do 1100W RMS @ 4Ω bridged mono. It'll be sharing a 15A circuit with my DLP TV (135W bulb), two PCs (I'm guessing a couple hundred watts), my 110WPC Marantz receiver, ceiling fan and various other gadgetry. I'm skeptical that a higher rated amp would deliver any more power than this one would without tripping a breaker.

 

[fuzz092888]

Good call. But I think even this Crown XLS 1000 at 100 bucks cheaper would still be more than I would ever use. It'll supposedly do 1100W RMS @ 4Ω bridged mono. It'll be sharing a 15A circuit with my DLP TV (135W bulb), two PCs (I'm guessing a couple hundred watts), my 110WPC Marantz receiver, ceiling fan and various other gadgetry. I'm skeptical that a higher rated amp would deliver any more power than this one would without tripping a breaker.

For continuous power you'd be right, but for peak values you'd be surprised how much abuse a breaker can take.

 

[Steve81]

For continuous power you'd be right, but for peak values you'd be surprised how much abuse a breaker can take.

Indeed. Speakers and subwoofers don't continuously load a circuit the way the combination of a hair dryer plus a vacuum would.

 

[Jeff R.]

If it were me....I think I would take the gamble on the MB Quart. I can attest to everything I have experience with in their Home Audio line is very good quality. It is always fun to own something that nobody else does also.