Oppo BDP-103 as the preamp. Real world feedback?

[ErinH]

*cross posted elsewhere, but thought someone here may have some good feedback for me as well*

I am piecing together parts for my HT room. I started with an Onkyo NR818 recently, then picked up (3) Crown XLS1500's to power L/C/R and side surrounds. The subs will get their own amp(s).

I also picked up a Rane RPM88 for a price that would have been stupid to pass up. I had planned to use it for multi-subwoofer EQ because the Onkyo doesn't have SubEQ built in. Which essentially means there's a lot of wasted channels on the Rane, but like I said... good price. If you don't know what the RPM88 is, trust me when I say that it's a powerhouse DSP. And I'm not at all afraid of manual DSP. The Audyssey is just a bit quicker, but truth be told I'm too anal to trust it implicitly.

So, after all that, the next step is to pick up a BDP. Naturally, Oppo came to mind. I started shopping and realized I can use the Oppo 103 or 105 as a preamp, as has been discussed here a few times. It got me thinking... why do I have the Onkyo AVR? It has Audyssey XT32 built in which is nice, but I'm a manual tuner anyway, so while it's convenient it's not a huge benefit. Other than having separate zones, there's really nothing else the Onkyo provides me that the Oppo couldn't do. I don't need a bajillion inputs. I'll be running the BDP and an AppleTv; I can manually swap HDMI cables from my DirecTV box if needed, I'd imagine. I'm not that lazy.

Additionally, using the BDP-103 in lieu of the AVR for video/sound processing would save me the cost of the AVR (about $630) which could go toward something else such as a projector or screen.

I have a couple questions, though, before I make any brash decisions:
First, I'm a bit concerned there may be lip sync issues due to passing analog out to the Rane for my DSP, and then on to the amps. I've read a lot of issues with lip sync through AVRs, but don't know if this is something I should be concerned with. I also can't find any mention of being able to delay video to sync up with the audio. Is this a legitimate concern for me, or am I concerned with a non-issue?

Second, are there those of you who went a similar route (Oppo as a pre-amp) that have words of wisdom?


Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Erin

 

[fuzz092888]

I have the 103D and I had a 95 before that. First I'll give you that official position of Oppo followed by my own personal experiences (you may know the former already). Oppo's official stance is that the BD players aren't meant to be used as standalone units. I believe they said it had something to do with the output voltages of the analog outs not being robust enough, but I could be mistaken (on the reason that is, they have definitely told people in the past they aren't meant to be used by themselves). The other issue with this route is that the Oppo volume control isn't analog, it's digital. Which means that there will be compression at any level other than 100%, but Oppo has said that they use a proprietary algorithm that is supposed to maintain audio quality even though the volume level is digital and it is being compressed.

My own experiences have been that the BD players work pretty well as standalone units and when I was using the 95 to directly drive a two channel amp, I didn't have any issues leveling out the channels and driving the speakers I was using to a very satisfying level. I'm not an extremely critical listener, but I made an effort to really try to hear a difference or any effects the digital volume control may have had on the SQ when I was doing this and for the life of me I couldn't really pick anything out. At least nothing definitive enough to even begin to say there could be a difference. IMHO, Oppo did an excellent job with whatever algorithm they use and the SQ is excellent. If you can live without all the other "stuff" a receiver provides, I think you'd be ok with just the 103/103D.

I also posted a short review of the 103D. If you have any questions about it or the Darbee processing feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[sharkman]

I've read several posts on the avs forum where owners were quite happy using the 103 as a pre. You lose room correction and some options that an AVR can do, but it can really simplify things I suppose. I've got a 103 on the way, I may try it out as a pre too.

 

[sharkman]

Just an update for anyone interested. I've had the Oppo 103 in my system for about a week, and today pulled out my flagship Onkyo and hooked up the 103 as pre amp in a 7.1 system with only a HD PVR and Oppo(bluray, Roku stick, USB inputs) as sources to an Outlaw amp, the 7125. Initial impressions are pretty good actually. I'm impressed with music, with one component out of the chain, at least with mp3 files it's better to my ears.

The set up and operation is much streamlined compared to a full featured AVR, but I've found I don't use most of the options anyway. I was curious as to the sound without Audyssey, but I'm pleasantly surprised. I think my room, with an open rear wall into the kitchen, has better acoustics than some so bear that in mind. I've found room correction almost forces you to play fairly loud to get reasonable volume for dialog, and then when an action scene occurs the volume is too much. With the Oppo you set the speaker distance and trim and I'm pretty happy with the results.

Some who love the flexibility of an AVR or who need/prefer room correction, you may find this option to be less than acceptable, but for me the Oppo has proved to be a viable option. I'm surprised to say I don't miss Audyssey.

 

[sharkman]

One outstanding issue was the fact that the Oppo has no trigger to remotely turn on an amp, but with a little reading I spliced a USB and mini mono jack cable together as the USB connections on the Oppo turn on and off with the unit. Also, I do get occasional soft clicking when changing sources, but all in all, it's a pretty well performing application for the Oppo.

 

[sharkman]

I've also begun experiencing some hiss. Doesn't seem to matter what volume, and I get minor clicks when changing sources or channels or even the mute function. I tried changing the analog RCA's and plugging the Oppo into a different wall socket, no luck. It's definitely not a ground loop, and is puzzling. It's not noticeable at seating distance(the clicks are), but still.

On a whim I swapped my Opp 95 into place, and it performed without any symptoms, so I'm pretty sure it's something to do with the 103. I've since read that others have run into this as well when using the 103 as preamp. I may do some more experimenting, but for me the performance of the 95 proved the point.

 

[ErinH]

Thanks for these updates. I appreciate it.

 

[tbaudoin]

Just a crazy question. I been wondering recently, due to my Denon 4310CI not passing 3D and having an ARC, if I can do the following without killing something or if there have been others who have done this.....?

1. All sources (STB, ROKU, APPLE TV, Oppo) to the Denon
2. HDMI OUT on the Denon to HDMI IN on Oppo
3. HDMI 1 OUT on Oppo to DISPLAY, HDMI 2 OUT ON Oppo to HDMI IN on Denon.

I really want to be able to maintain the higher level audio decoding, so I suspect the only real option is a new receiver with an ARC circuit, else run another really difficult HDMI (20/20 hindsight is PERFECT). I had the chance, but thought I would replace the receiver asap -sometimes things just don't work out the way I planned... lol..

At this point, it seem like it might work, but I'm thinking I'm missing something critical... And, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to avoid a forced receiver replacement due to ignorance....

 

[tbaudoin]

Anyone, Anyone, Bueller..... Bueller.....?

 

[zillazilla]

My BD-103 analog(ue)! sounds powerful going straight into NAD T753 integrated.
Going straight into Acurus 200Five ( more power) it does not reach the same volume levels.
Is it a weak(relatively) preamp or just a bad match for the Acurus? Do I need a preamp for it?
OPPO tech support says it CAN be used as a preamp, but you SHOULD use a separate preamp.
Thoughts? And FWIW it's not doing a good job with the subwoofer signal either.

 

[zillazilla]

solved!

My BD-103 analog(ue)! sounds powerful going straight into NAD T753 integrated.
Going straight into Acurus 200Five ( more power) it does not reach the same volume levels.
Is it a weak(relatively) preamp or just a bad match for the Acurus? Do I need a preamp for it?
OPPO tech support says it CAN be used as a preamp, but you SHOULD use a separate preamp.
Thoughts? And FWIW it's not doing a good job with the subwoofer signal either.

Ah! A good night's sleep yields a fresh approach and great results. I went into the audio settings and worked the issue out by following OPPO's recommended setting of +10db subwoofer trim. Raising the other speakers 10db as well yielded the sound I was waiting for - the preamp is higher fidelity indeed with strong (enough) output for sure ...now the number 80 on volume is starting to beat on the Paradigm Monitor 9's.

 

[ErinH]

FWIW, here's my email exchange with Oppo. Maybe this will help people.

Erin,

If you will be using the player as the pre-amplifier, then you will want to use the BDP-105. The BDP-103 has 24-bit DACs and has a low signal to noise floor, so it will likely produce audio truncations if you use the player's built-in volume controls and a hum will always be present as the amplifier will always be amplifying the noise floor.

If you are running through a pre-amplifier, or another device which will be doing the volume controls, then the BDP-103 will work in your configuration.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

________________________________________
From: OPPO Store
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:21 AM
To: OPPO Service

Note: Hello,
I've been considering purchasing the BDP-103D for a few months now for my home theater project.

I would like to use the BDP as a pre-amp stage and bypass an AVR purchase altogether, since it would save me money. Namely, I just don't need all the whizz-bang features of an AVR. If I went this route, I'd also use the Oppo's HDMI input for my appleTV.

I currently have (3) Crown XLS1500 amplifiers and a Rane RPM88 for DSP purposes. With these components, I'd run unbalnced from the Oppo to the Rane, and then Balanced from the Rane to the Crowns. As you may know, the Rane is a powerhouse DSP with the added feature of providing a hefty amount of output voltage as needed.

That said, I've come across threads and posts on forums indicating SOME users having audible hiss through their BDP-103's pre-outs. And I did read that one of those forum members had contacted your company, whose reply was:
"The hiss you are hearing is the noise floor on the player being amplified. This is likely to occur when connected direct to an amplifier as there is no in-line filtering with such a device. Going through a receiver or pre-amplifier will remove this error." (I've attached the link to this post at the bottom of this message).

So, my question is simply: would the Rane RPM88 serve this purpose of line filter here, to cut down on any potential noise? I understand that typically people are trying to amplify a low level input with a pro-amp gain that requires a hotter voltage in than line level typically provides. So, my hunch is this has more to do with people in that situation, essentially trying to boost the amp's attenuation circuit which exposes more of the preamp's noise floor. BUT, that could be terribly incorrect.

I'm looking forward to hearing your input on this matter. I'd order one just to try it out to see if this is an issue in my setup, but that's a $599 risk I can't afford, unfortunately.

Post #120 @ //www.hometheatershack.com/forums/blu-ray-dvd-disc-media-players/62957-oppo-bdp-103-blu-ray-player-review-discussion-thread-12.html#ixzz2ogy26N25

Thanks,
Erin Hardison

 

[Flo2984]

One outstanding issue was the fact that the Oppo has no trigger to remotely turn on an amp, but with a little reading I spliced a USB and mini mono jack cable together as the USB connections on the Oppo turn on and off with the unit. Also, I do get occasional soft clicking when changing sources, but all in all, it's a pretty well performing application for the Oppo.

Hello,

As i've got now the same issue and you are the only one who might help, could you please tell me how exactly to do this?
Maybe with some pictures? I would be really thankful!

Best Regards
Flo

 

[fuzz092888]

Hello,

As i've got now the same issue and you are the only one who might help, could you please tell me how exactly to do this?
Maybe with some pictures? I would be really thankful!

Best Regards
Flo

Or you could just use one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LCG5-Auto-Switching-Technology/dp/B000L9635G

 

[Flo2984]

Omg no

Sharman please help...

 

[fuzz092888]

Omg no

Sharman please help...

Um OK.....

 

[j_garcia]

Omg no

Sharman please help...

IMO, Fuzz's recommendation is a better method than what Sharkman was suggesting.

 

[sharkman]

I suppose that would depend on one's wiring skills and budget. I am reluctant to go into detail, though, as a precaution against some unfamiliar with the laws of electricity and something called "Letting the Smoke Out".

 

[j_garcia]

And that's a big part of why I think it is a better suggestion Fuzz's recommendation should work and should not require any special skills.

 

[Flo2984]

Usb Voltage is only 5V so how did you transform it to 12V?
Or is the trigger input accepting 5V also?