Matching tube amp and speakers w Rega RP3

[aaronyc]

I have just recently gotten interested in listening to vinyl again. And a couple years ago put together a modest system:

Turntable: Dual CS 5000 w/ Grado XC+ cartridge
Pre amp: Musical Fidelity V-LPS II
Integrated Amplifier: NAD C 316BEE
Speakers: Polk Audio RTI A1 Bookshelf Speakers

I am soon upgrading to a Rega RP3 turntable with the stock Elys 2 cartridge. I am also interested in upgrading the speakers and amplifier. In particular I'd like to switch from solid state to tubes. My budget for new speakers and a tube amplifier is about $4000. Any recommendations, especially in regards to tube amplifiers? The technology is quite foreign to me.

Btw, my listening space is moderate in size, about 12'x16'. I listen to a wide range of vinyl, but mostly jazz, classical and classic rock.

 

[Mo Noyz]

I haven't jumped into the tube waters just yet, but have several friends that are big time enthusiasts. And most of them listen mostly to Jazz. The two names that constantly come up is PrimaLuna and Decware.

"Quality is not an act, it is a habit." - Aristotle

World Class Tube Amplifiers by DECWARE for Audiophiles

Just be aware that the Decware amps are all hand built, so there is a bit of a wait after you order one.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have just recently gotten interested in listening to vinyl again. And a couple years ago put together a modest system:

Turntable: Dual CS 5000 w/ Grado XC+ cartridge
Pre amp: Musical Fidelity V-LPS II
Integrated Amplifier: NAD C 316BEE
Speakers: Polk Audio RTI A1 Bookshelf Speakers

I am soon upgrading to a Rega RP3 turntable with the stock Elys 2 cartridge. I am also interested in upgrading the speakers and amplifier. In particular I'd like to switch from solid state to tubes. My budget for new speakers and a tube amplifier is about $4000. Any recommendations, especially in regards to tube amplifiers? The technology is quite foreign to me.

Btw, my listening space is moderate in size, about 12'x16'. I listen to a wide range of vinyl, but mostly jazz, classical and classic rock.

Let's be clear on this right off the bat: If you go from solid state amplification to tube amplification, then you are downgrading! Tubes are technically inferior to solid state in pretty much every way and every measurement. Also, with tube amps, it is much more important to worry about amp output impedance and speaker input impedance. In other words, a well designed and robust SS amp will drive a wider range of speakers than a similar tube amp will.

Now that I have that out of the way.....

Do you have any inclination for the DIY approach on a tube amp? IF you think you might want to build your own, then check out the Dynaco Clones from Bob Latino. Absolutely top-notch components, easy to follow instructions, and awesome support from Bob himself. I built an ST70 and love it! The bottom line is that tubes can be fun and can sound good, but you must be more mindful of the limitations of tube amps.

My advice, if it were my $, this is what I would do in this order:
1) Add a Subwoofer (this is your top priority, probably $500 to $700 range)
2) Buy better speakers than Polk (Put as much $ here as you possibly can!)
3) Go ahead with better TT
4) Keep the NAD unless it doesn't have enough power to run your new chosen speakers (but if that is the case, then tubes are probably not the best choice either).

 

[Mo Noyz]

Many folks actually prefer the harmonic distortion inherent in vacuum tubes. So considering it an upgrade or downgrade is actually pretty subjective, IMO. Laboratory numbers may back your assertion, but they still don't mean everything to the person sitting in their listening room.

That said, I certainly wouldn't ONLY run a tube system. That would be more like a hobby than a serious listening setup.

The subjective battle between solid state and tubes will rage on and on, but I don't know that there is a true winner.

 

[slipperybidness]

Many folks actually prefer the harmonic distortion inherent in vacuum tubes. So considering it an upgrade or downgrade is actually pretty subjective, IMO. Laboratory numbers may back your assertion, but they still don't mean everything to the person sitting in their listening room.

That said, I certainly wouldn't ONLY run a tube system. That would be more like a hobby than a serious listening setup.

The subjective battle between solid state and tubes will rage on and on, but I don't know that there is a true winner.

SS is absolutely the true winner. From a technical standpoint, it is hands-down SS in every way. Just look at how tubes require output transformers for impedance matching, that is a poor design any way you look at it. SS should inherently have low OutP Impedance, so transformers aren't needed in that design.

Tubes are inferior to SS. I want to be sure the OP understands this up front. As long as you understand this, then I won't steer him away from tubes.

Now, I have a tube amp that I built and will never part with. I also have a pretty slick tube pre-amp that I built. I will indeed upgrade these as I have time and motivation. I know that it is inferior to my SS gear, but that does not diminish the fun and enjoyment that I get out of the tube amp.

For reference this is my DIY tube gear:
tubes4hifi amplifier KITs page
Quickie 1.1 Battery Powered Directly Heated Tube Preamplifier Kit | Bottlehead

 

[Mo Noyz]

Right, I'm not arguing it from a technical standpoint. I'm arguing it simply from an end result standpoint.

As I stated before, many folks prefer the inherent harmonic distortion that creates that "warm tube sound". I consider myself one of them, but have no illusions that it is somehow at the same level as solid state. And I only currently own a solid state system.

But, at the end of the day, what sounds good to the end user is what matters most. It's no different than the CD vs. LP arguments that still rages on to this day.

Cold and calculated vs. warm and fuzzy, I guess you could say.

 

[ski2xblack]

I think you both raise good points.

To the OP, you said the technology is foreign to you, yet you would like to switch to tubes. Don't put the cart before the horse. I would suggest that before you jump in you do some research first. That will inform you as to whether or not you even want to pursue it, as well as protect against the prevalent BS in tube land, potentially saving you considerable expense and hassle. With some baseline knowledge, you can pursue DIY or used gear in a more low risk manner. New tube gear is typically a horrid value proposition.

To start you off with some tube research, go here:
Valves Index

 

[slipperybidness]

Right, I'm not arguing it from a technical standpoint. I'm arguing it simply from an end result standpoint.

As I stated before, many folks prefer the inherent harmonic distortion that creates that "warm tube sound". I consider myself one of them, but have no illusions that it is somehow at the same level as solid state. And I only currently own a solid state system.

But, at the end of the day, what sounds good to the end user is what matters most. It's no different than the CD vs. LP arguments that still rages on to this day.

Cold and calculated vs. warm and fuzzy, I guess you could say.

Well, it sounds different and it is certainly hard to argue about that. Personally, I like the tweaking and tuning on the tube amp. I have added the stepped attenuator and dual impedance (8 and 4 taps) upgrades, and these have the pentode/triode switch. It is fun to see how each variable reacts with each set of speakers. It really complements the DT SM350s well, but not very great with the Philharmonitors. I currently have it hooked up to drum machine/synth and have it pushing the P363s just fine.

 

[Mo Noyz]

That's great to hear. I've never owned one myself, but had friends that did. I always enjoyed sitting around listening to them. It must be a wonderful hobby. And one which I'll participate in one of these days.

But, having just completed my system rebuild last week, this cat is tapped out for now.

 

[ImcLoud]

The tube vs ss and vinyl vs digital debates get old pretty fast...
I have a modest tube system in my bedroom and listen to it often, it sounds different and thats what I like about it..

If I were spending $4000 on a tube system I would get...
JOLIDA JD302CRC INTEGRATED TUBE AMP **DEMO** at Music Direct
Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker

I have used my joida amps for many hours and no issues, the sound is as good as any other tube amp I have sound and the prices are hard to beat... CS is also top notch, my brother had an issue with a volume knob on his jolida, not sure what caused it but he had the power plugged into the aux powers on the back of a reciever, the receiver cooked and cooked his cable box that was also plugged there and the amps volume knob no longer worked, weird?}. they repaired it with no issues and fast, out of warranty, he just paid shipping...

 

[jinjuku]

All this back and forth and the speakers being used: Polk RTI A1's

Upgrade your speakers. You can throw all the electronics in the world at the speakers and it's not going to do an ounce of good.

If you are going to get a tube amp get the Carvin T100 (50WPC). You can even roll your own tubes in that one I believe and it's made in the USA for $600.

 

[slipperybidness]

The tube vs ss and vinyl vs digital debates get old pretty fast...
I have a modest tube system in my bedroom and listen to it often, it sounds different and thats what I like about it..

If I were spending $4000 on a tube system I would get...
JOLIDA JD302CRC INTEGRATED TUBE AMP **DEMO** at Music Direct
Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker

I have used my joida amps for many hours and no issues, the sound is as good as any other tube amp I have sound and the prices are hard to beat... CS is also top notch, my brother had an issue with a volume knob on his jolida, not sure what caused it but he had the power plugged into the aux powers on the back of a reciever, the receiver cooked and cooked his cable box that was also plugged there and the amps volume knob no longer worked, weird?}. they repaired it with no issues and fast, out of warranty, he just paid shipping...

That looks like a pretty nice amp, and the price is right on it. I wish I could see some of the internals. It does look pretty similar to my Dynaco with similar tubes. The really nice things on that one are the XLR connections and the remote control. It's a moot point to me on my Dyncao, but remotes are a nice luxury, esp on a tube amp.

 

[ImcLoud]

yah, I love my jolida 202, it does everything I ask it to, and yes a remote is a great option, and the remote is similar to emo and some other manu's all aluminum and weighs 2 lbs, lol....

 

[jinjuku]

The tube vs ss and vinyl vs digital debates get old pretty fast...
I have a modest tube system in my bedroom and listen to it often, it sounds different and thats what I like about it..

If I were spending $4000 on a tube system I would get...
JOLIDA JD302CRC INTEGRATED TUBE AMP **DEMO** at Music Direct
Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker

I have used my joida amps for many hours and no issues, the sound is as good as any other tube amp I have sound and the prices are hard to beat... CS is also top notch, my brother had an issue with a volume knob on his jolida, not sure what caused it but he had the power plugged into the aux powers on the back of a reciever, the receiver cooked and cooked his cable box that was also plugged there and the amps volume knob no longer worked, weird?}. they repaired it with no issues and fast, out of warranty, he just paid shipping...

Pete Schumacher posted a really interesting article that he found as it pertains to Vinyl:

While researching amplifiers, I came across something interesting about vinyl

 

[slipperybidness]

Those Emo remotes are simply ridiculous, aren't they? I don't even use the one for my XDA-2, but leave it out for display on top of my sub anyway. It's like some bizarre piece of art.

Though, I was disappointed they went with a simple plastic remote for the UMC-200.

Speaking of EMO....they supposedly have some tube amps (made in USA) in the pipeline. They were really excited about it for the brief time that Bob Carver was a part of the Emo family. But, now that Carver left (quickly), I haven't heard any more buzz about Emo tubes.

Either way (tube, or SS), I'm pretty much at the point that I will most likely be building my own from here on out.