AVR HDMI board failure(s)?

[Ponzio]

As a sufferer of audio equipment upgradeitus I’ve noticed, as I’ve been reading reviews on AVR’s (Amazon/audio message boards), the persistent claims of HDMI board failures on various name brand AVR’s (Onkyo/Pioneer/Denon/Yamaha, etc.). Is there something in the HDMI protocol, voltage current handling or cheap/shoddy manufacturing that makes them more prone to failure? Or is the HDMI cable itself that’s causing these failures, depending on the HDMI revisions (incompatibility with the AVR HDMI board) or current handling that’s the issue? And which brands are more prone than others?

About 10 months ago I reconfigured my audio cable connections when I purchased a Oppo BDP-105, to take advantage of the Oppo’s 5.1 audio out to the Yamaha’s pre-out’s in the LR and decided to run the YPAO for the first time. So I hooked up a HDMI cable to my Yamaha RX-V4600 HDMI out and it failed. I contacted Yamaha tech support and after troubleshooting the issue, the tech informed me that more than likely I had a HDMI board failure. Since I purchased the unit new in 2005 my warranty had run out. I’m more than happy with the sound for both HT & 2.1 (using the straight analog function) but it would have been nice to hear if it would have made a difference. Knock on wood my other 2 Yamaha’s (2600 & 2700) have no such issue.

Is this more of an age issue and modern AVR’s have resolved it somewhat? I realize that circuit board failures will occur, especially with the inconsistent power from your local power provider and there are dips/spikes in current transmission, especially during the summer when the grid is taxed. I understand that a lemon or two will escape the factory, no matter what the quality control is but I can’t help but notice complaints, even on current models, from customers.

Thanks guys & gals

 

[afterlife2]

Most cases say over heating. I keep a laptop fan on mine with air circulating out and never had a problem. I also read if you set the OHMS to 4 it reduces the heat.

 

[Ponzio]

Most cases say over heating. I keep a laptop fan on mine with air circulating out and never had a problem. I also read if you set the OHMS to 4 it reduces the heat.

That may be so but why do the processor/control /display boards not have the same incident of failures? Yamaha owners, including myself, readily admit that they run warm/hot but this is the one and only issue I've had with Yamaha AVR's that I’ve owned (1070, 4600, 2600, 2700). I just believe that there's something else at play here.

 

[fuzz092888]

I agree with afterlife in that many board failures have more to do with heat, improper care, or a combination of the two if you really start digging into the claims.

My advice is to give it plenty of air, plop a fan on top pulling hot air out directly abovev the HDMI board, leave the receiver setting on 8 ohm, and read this if you're interested in a more in depth explanation.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

Board failures happen, but IME of your not driving the thing to its limits, follow the , manufacturer directions about open space and air flow, then hedge your bet with a fan on top you should be in good shape. If it still fails at least you know it was a defect and not heat related.

 

[RichB]

I have moved to all RedMere cables to reduce the stress on the HDMI connectors.

There was never a failure, but it would not surprise me if the sockets could lift off the board over time.

- Rich

 

[Ponzio]

Sorry about the pic but as you can see it's well ventilated, I doubt that was the issue. This has been it's home since I bought it.


The Yamaha tech even "intimated" that there is an issue during our troubleshooting session. He didn't admit there's an issue overall but that they did see a higher incident of failure on HDMI circuit boards than all the other boards. And yes, I've been in many a home where people stack all their components on top of each other. Maybe they're the people who are posting reviews. Hmmm.

 

[fuzz092888]

I highly doubt it's an issue, but the only thing I'll point out is that without an open back, the hot air is probably getting semi-trapped in the back there since that's where a lot of heat from the HDMI board is. It's probably only a difference of 1-3 degrees compared to an open back rack, but it could have been a factor. Odds are there is an actual issue with the board, like the impression you got from the tech indicated.

Just to be safe in the future, I'd probably add a fan to the top of the unit just to keep air circulating in and out of the space, plus it will help cool the actual components inside the unit which should help prolong the unit's life.

 

[Ponzio]

I've always left the impedance to default (8ohm) on all my units and I verified it with the Yamaha tech at the time. My Focal 1027Be's are pretty efficient (91dB). Maybe it was previous speakers, the Bose 901's? Don't know.

 

[M Code]

As a sufferer of audio equipment upgradeitus I’ve noticed, as I’ve been reading reviews on AVR’s (Amazon/audio message boards), the persistent claims of HDMI board failures on various name brand AVR’s (Onkyo/Pioneer/Denon/Yamaha, etc.). Is there something in the HDMI protocol, voltage current handling or cheap/shoddy manufacturing that makes them more prone to failure? Or is the HDMI cable itself that’s causing these failures, depending on the HDMI revisions (incompatibility with the AVR HDMI board) or current handling that’s the issue? And which brands are more prone than others?

About 10 months ago I reconfigured my audio cable connections when I purchased a Oppo BDP-105, to take advantage of the Oppo’s 5.1 audio out to the Yamaha’s pre-out’s in the LR and decided to run the YPAO for the first time. So I hooked up a HDMI cable to my Yamaha RX-V4600 HDMI out and it failed. I contacted Yamaha tech support and after troubleshooting the issue, the tech informed me that more than likely I had a HDMI board failure. Since I purchased the unit new in 2005 my warranty had run out. I’m more than happy with the sound for both HT & 2.1 (using the straight analog function) but it would have been nice to hear if it would have made a difference. Knock on wood my other 2 Yamaha’s (2600 & 2700) have no such issue.

Is this more of an age issue and modern AVR’s have resolved it somewhat? I realize that circuit board failures will occur, especially with the inconsistent power from your local power provider and there are dips/spikes in current transmission, especially during the summer when the grid is taxed. I understand that a lemon or two will escape the factory, no matter what the quality control is but I can’t help but notice complaints, even on current models, from customers.

Thanks guys & gals

Note that many of the HDMI board failures was not a result of of the AVR brand's design, certain Monster cables used a molded HDMI connector which was slightly oversized...
And when forced into the chassis HDMI jack this put extreme pressure on its PCB connections and many failed. Few outsiders knew the reason for failure but it was widely known by their warranty service centers..

Just my $0.05....

 

[JayNYC]

I had an Integra DHC 40.1 pre-pro for a couple years and it died; cause and remedy was HDMI board / replacement.

 

[Hi Ho]

I work for a service center and I can say that there are certainly a lot of HDMI board failures. I can also say that the large majority of them are on Onkyo and Denon receivers. I have not seen a failed Yamaha HDMI board. Note that we have used Yamaha nearly exclusively in every install for the last three years or so and repair VERY few of them while we get a lot of Denon and Onkyo in for repair. The ratio of Denon/Onkyo to Yamaha is easily 10:1.

The main factor seems to be heat. Onkyos run very hot compared to the others and it seems to simply cook the HDMI boards. Denons run warmer than Yamaha's but not excessively so. Still, we see a LOT of Denon HDMI board failures and the symptoms can often seem completely unrelated.

 

[herbu]

I have wondered about the affect of very stiff HDMI cables vs very flexible. I have both, and the stiff ones do seem to put some constant pressure on the connector. Constant pressure/torque + thermal cycling = problem? Seems reasonable, but I have no idea if it's relevant here.

 

[Ponzio]

I work for a service center and I can say that there are certainly a lot of HDMI board failures. I can also say that the large majority of them are on Onkyo and Denon receivers. I have not seen a failed Yamaha HDMI board. Note that we have used Yamaha nearly exclusively in every install for the last three years or so and repair VERY few of them while we get a lot of Denon and Onkyo in for repair. The ratio of Denon/Onkyo to Yamaha is easily 10:1.

The main factor seems to be heat. Onkyos run very hot compared to the others and it seems to simply cook the HDMI boards. Denons run warmer than Yamaha's but not excessively so. Still, we see a LOT of Denon HDMI board failures and the symptoms can often seem completely unrelated.

Thanks for verifying what I’ve always suspected from reading various AVR reviews, especially Amazon’s. While the level of sophistication & expertise of the reviewers may be mocked, there is no denying that something is afoot. Can some of these people be blamed for their own mishaps, like not having enough ventilation for the AVR or ham-handedly shoving a HDMI cable into the connector like they’re making sausages? Yes, no doubt but a vast majority of them? I don’t think so.

 

[afterlife2]

I work for a service center and I can say that there are certainly a lot of HDMI board failures. I can also say that the large majority of them are on Onkyo and Denon receivers. I have not seen a failed Yamaha HDMI board. Note that we have used Yamaha nearly exclusively in every install for the last three years or so and repair VERY few of them while we get a lot of Denon and Onkyo in for repair. The ratio of Denon/Onkyo to Yamaha is easily 10:1.

The main factor seems to be heat. Onkyos run very hot compared to the others and it seems to simply cook the HDMI boards. Denons run warmer than Yamaha's but not excessively so. Still, we see a LOT of Denon HDMI board failures and the symptoms can often seem completely unrelated.

Thanks for the insight HI. Got a quick question when they repair the HDMI board do they replace it and add something to run it cooler? or just replace the same board as before installed?

 

[RichB]

I use this $20 device to measure ambient temperature:

Amazon.com - Caliber III Thermometer Hygrometer - Humidifiers

- Rich

 

[Ponzio]

HDMI board failure workaround

From the FWIW Dept.

I figured a workaround to access my Yamaha RX-V4600 YPAO setup menu, via TV, by hooking up the Component connections on the rear of the AVR (Monitor inputs) to the Component In on the TV. Voila!

I contacted the local authorized Yamaha repair service center yesterday and replacement of the HDMI board + labor would have been around $300. Since I don't use the AVR to pass-thru my HDMI signal(s) it was a no-brainer.

 

[TLS Guy]

I work for a service center and I can say that there are certainly a lot of HDMI board failures. I can also say that the large majority of them are on Onkyo and Denon receivers. I have not seen a failed Yamaha HDMI board. Note that we have used Yamaha nearly exclusively in every install for the last three years or so and repair VERY few of them while we get a lot of Denon and Onkyo in for repair. The ratio of Denon/Onkyo to Yamaha is easily 10:1.

The main factor seems to be heat. Onkyos run very hot compared to the others and it seems to simply cook the HDMI boards. Denons run warmer than Yamaha's but not excessively so. Still, we see a LOT of Denon HDMI board failures and the symptoms can often seem completely unrelated.

You are in a better position to see this than the rest of us. My researches show that these failures are especially common in Okyo/Integra and Denon receivers below the $900 to $1000 price points.

I suspect that the drive to features is a big part of this. An HDMI board is a very complicated thing with a lot of processing occurring continuously. I suspect that the designers are irritated about having to provide an HDMI board at all. It is all for the studios and adds nothing to core function or quality. In fact at lower price points it leads to cutting corners all round.

The wider issue, is that there is no point in it all. We had a discussion recently about stripping codes form BDs, for digital archiving. Apparently these code stripping programs are plentiful and legal. If this is so, there is no point in fouling up products with this onerous DRM HDCP/HDMI nonsense. So I say ban those code stripping programs with tough penalties for developers, sellers and users, or ban DRM all together and ditch HDMI. It's just not acceptable to leave a wide whole in DRM and still have us pay for this complex handshake nonsense in dollars and unreliability. Our elected representatives need to outlaw DRM or toughen and enforce it. There is no middle way. I favor a ban on DRM, and if the studios say they will release no more product, then call their bluff.

 

[RichB]

They will do neither, unfortunately.

Instead they are now watermarking the audio signal with Cinavia support:

Cinavia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, most players will play rips in MKV containers, so the stupidity seems to continue on.
Just wait for 4K, I just hope it does not require an internet connection to authorize playback.

- Rich

 

[TLS Guy]

They will do neither, unfortunately.

Instead they are now watermarking the audio signal with Cinavia support:

Cinavia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, most players will play rips in MKV containers, so the stupidity seems to continue on.
Just wait for 4K, I just hope it does not require an internet connection to authorize playback.

- Rich

I was aware of this very nasty Cinavia system, but did not realize it had been implemented. That has to downgrade audio quality in high end minimal phase shift speaker designs. The problem is that those who make illegal copies cause this to happen.

When when we had a poster who wanted to do this, he got lots of helpful advice from members here ripping BDs, when he should have been told to get lost. If people would just realize that productions cost a lot of money, and it is unethical to steal other peoples work. By the way the member stated stated he was going to rip second hand BDs!

 

[Zargam Ali]

I am Also have Yamah rx v673 av recevier. I am having some issues that it’s hdmi output dead. And it can not show firmware version. It show version error in advanced settings.