Not-So-Loud Speakers?

[Chronos]

My setup: Pioneer Elite SC-35 (Class-D Ice amps)
Mains: Mirage OMD-15
Sub: Klipsch SW311

Question: We listen mainly to music at a level between -50 to -35 on the receiver; any higher than that and the speakers are too loud for our room. Am I failing to "open up" these speakers by listening to them as such a low level? Would I be better off buying a smaller pair, maybe bookshelf or something, that will require a higher power level to produce the same volume?

I know that these omni-directional speakers are not primarily meant for music anyway, which is another reason I'm thinking of switching.

My price range for new speakers would be $500-$1000 total. I'm guessing that for the price, I could get a much higher quality bookshelf speaker than tower speaker.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

 

[shadyJ]

If they are too loud, why not just leave them at a tolerable volume level? You haven't made the problem with them very clear. Do you want something that sounds better at louder volumes?

 

[Chronos]

Thanks for the reply ShadyJ.

I want something that sounds better at the same volume. I was wondering if something like a bookshelf speaker would sound better because I'm giving it more power from the receiver to get the same volume level. I hear people talk about their speakers "opening up" as they give them more power, and so I was wondering if it was overkill to have speakers like this which I'm barely having to drive before the volume is too loud.

 

[markw]

The problem isn't with your system. It's your physiology that is causing this. At low volume levels, we don't hear bass as "loud" as we do midrange frequencies. That's why older equipment had a "loudness contour" button, which seems to have disappeared from AV equipment and most modern stereo equipment. I guess they think our hearing changed within the last thirty or so years so as to make it unnecessary. ...it didn't.

For some more scientific gobbledygook on this, see this link on the "equal loudness countour", which was formerly known as the "Fletcher-Munson Curve".

...but, you might try boosting the bass a bit to see if that makes it any better,

 

[zieglj01]

I would aim for something other than an omni-polar sound with music.
Something that can give you a more precise central image, along with
a good spacious sound-stage.

A good pair of bookshelf speakers can work out nicely

It would also be interesting to know, your room size

 

[Chronos]

zieglj01 - 400 sq feet, closed room.

Markw - the Pioneer has a "loudness" setting. I may mess with this to see what happens.

Thanks!

 

[zieglj01]

zieglj01 - 400 sq feet, closed room.
Thanks!

How far do you sit back from the speakers - and I assume you are
playing the sub with the speakers for music?

 

[JMJVK]

two cents

I've listened to music with blissful sound quality on very large speakers at low volumes. It's not about opening them up, or speaker size, but about your listening position relative to your speakers' positioning. At lower volumes, the listening position becomes more critical, specially with speakers endowed with a narrow and more focused sound stage.

This may be subjective, but I've also found that lower listening volumes require absolute silence in the environment, and a period of listening time for my hearing to adapt to the low noise and low volume environment. As if my sense of hearing had to "stop tunning out" sounds, like it does all day while it is being assaulted right and left, and start to "tune in" again to the subtle input of sound at low volumes.

Eventually, what at first, sounds like inaudible and weak volume, seems to become not only sufficient, but also quite full and well rounded, yielding a very nice listening experience.

Your mileage may vary, but give low volume a chance before making any rash decisions.


Just my two cents.

 

[shadyJ]

I would get more conventional speakers. It could be the design of your speakers are playing badly with room acoustics. I would look at some Philharmonitors which would likely be far more accurate them OMDs.

 

[ImcLoud]

I have experience with the mirage stuff and to me they are just not rite for music.... But this is subjective my uncle has 4 om6's and loves how they sound with music....


I would leave them where they are and throw a pair of capable bookshelfs next to them or build a music only system. since you like them with HT and the problem is music why buy an entire new front end {matching center}, just grab a pair of bookshelf speakers and a selector, when you watch tv run the omnis when you are listening to music hit the selector and run the bookshelfs...

As far as which ones to get that depends on what you like, check out the Philharmonitors, Ascend sierras, Carnegie CSB'1 {would be my pick at 50% off rite now for $400}, magnepan mmg's, salk wow1's {a little over budget}, there are many good bookshelfs for around $1000...

I think a sub upgrade would also be a good addition to your music, but that may not be in the cards for you...

 

[Ricardojoa]

You sure is not your room that is causing you to feel "is tto loud". When the sound bounces all over the room and creates reverbs and reflective sound back to you. At low levelm you may not noticed, but to a certain loudness you will start geting listen fatigues and you may think is too loud.

 

[Chronos]

zieglj01 - I sit about 17 feet back
ShadyJ and ImcLoud- I emailed Dennis about the Philharmonitors, and I'm looking for that Carnegie sale but can't find it.
Ricardojoa - I probably am experiencing a lot of reverb from the room. It has a lot of wall space and no acoustical enhancements. I don't think acoustical panels or anything similar would meet the WAF.

Thank you all for your replies. I am glad to hear that I'm not underpowering my speakers by keeping my receiver level so low.

Assuming I could sell my SW311 sub for around $500 with some time (need to wait for the clearance on them to end), I will search the forums to find the recommended musical subs in that price range. Of the 5 subs I've owned, a little Rel T3 was my favorite for music, and I never should have gotten rid of it. (Others included Klipsch RSW-10d, Mirage OMD Prestige S10 which I did not like for music, and some other ported subs which I did not like as much for music as the sealed subs I've owned).

I think I will grab a good pair of bookshelf speakers, probably those Carnegie CSB-1 if I can find the sale, or the Philharmonitors. Even with stands they should have a smaller visual footprint than the Mirage, so my wife will be happy.

 

[zieglj01]

Assuming I could sell my SW311 sub for around $500 with some time (need to wait for the clearance on them to end), I will search the forums to find the recommended musical subs in that price range. Of the 5 subs I've owned, a little Rel T3 was my favorite for music, and I never should have gotten rid of it. (Others included Klipsch RSW-10d, Mirage OMD Prestige S10 which I did not like for music, and some other ported subs which I did not like as much for music as the sealed subs I've owned).

I think I will grab a good pair of bookshelf speakers, probably those Carnegie CSB-1 if I can find the sale, or the Philharmonitors. Even with stands they should have a smaller visual footprint than the Mirage, so my wife will be happy.

After getting your bookshelf speakers, you could sell the Mirage, to help
fund a new sealed subwoofer.

 

[Chronos]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I picked up the B-Stock Philharmonitors from Dennis. Can't wait to hear them!

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I picked up the B-Stock Philharmonitors from Dennis. Can't wait to hear them!

Enjoy the adventure.

 

[markw]

Seventeen feet?

 

[Chronos]

Seventeen feet?

Roughly. It's a 20 x 20 room, with my TV/Speakers on one wall, and my couch on the opposite wall. So roughly seventeen feet between me and the speakers is my guess.

Is that bad?

 

[macddmac]

Roughly. It's a 20 x 20 room, with my TV/Speakers on one wall, and my couch on the opposite wall. So roughly seventeen feet between me and the speakers is my guess.

Is that bad?

It's not good. You need some room behind your listening position just like you need it behind and to the sides of your speakers.
Furthermore, most setups with great soundstage/ imaging follow the equilateral triangle rule.
Say your speakers are 8' apart.. You ideally want to be 8' from each speaker and with most, some toe in helps as well.
Try putting a chair in the room, equilateral to your speakers to get an idea of what I'm explaining.
With your listening position so far back and against the wall, most of what is heard is reflected sound, making for a far less than pleasant listening experience.
Cheers, Mac

 

[j_garcia]

Roughly. It's a 20 x 20 room, with my TV/Speakers on one wall, and my couch on the opposite wall. So roughly seventeen feet between me and the speakers is my guess.

Is that bad?

Worst possible case IMO. Try what Mac said as that's exactly my recommendation as well.

 

[zieglj01]

Roughly. It's a 20 x 20 room, with my TV/Speakers on one wall, and my couch on the opposite wall. So roughly seventeen feet between me and the speakers is my guess.

Is that bad?

Do it right this time with your new speakers - it will be an ear and eye opener.