2013 Midpriced AV Receiver Comparison: The Best AVR for $1,000?

[gene]

Gene,

the title reads "2013 Midpriced AV Receiver Comparison: The Best AVR for $1,000?", where does it say preview comparison? Also one key thing being missed out is the ability to drive difficult loads/ nominal impedance. Pioneer with the D3 amp topology is only one in this pack to be able to do that - drive 4ohm speakers without issues. Isn't that an important criteria as well? May be users at this level of AVR are using the more common 8 and 6 ohm speakers, still should have been called out.

Use a little common sense when reading an article. Normally we call these previews but since it was a multi product comparison it was left out of the page title but it's clearly not labeled as a review.

As for Pioneer D3: Older ICE Class D amps implemented in Pioneer receivers fell on their face with 4 ohm loads:
Pioneer Elite SC-07 A/V Receiver Review | Audioholics

The problem is most magazines only test at 1kHz so they never reveal how lacking some Class D amps are at driving 4 ohm loads. Most of the receivers in the comparison article should be able to handle 4 ohm loads, especially if bass managing the speakers. You can make an educated guess by looking at our reviews of brand predecessors to see how the newer models will perform assuming they still have similar weight in the power supply sections.

 

[TLS Guy]

So the Harman was dinged only for its power supply...........again? No description of how it sounded, just immediate downgrading because of the power supply and it not being "at least thin". I own a Denon myself, but there seems to be some bias against HK.

Switched power supplies are trouble prone and virtually unfixable. I would not own a unit with a switched power supply that powered units needing substantial power like amps. That is why we get so many post about subs blowing up as many use these switched power supplies.

 

[itschris]

Use a little common sense when reading an article. Normally we call these previews but since it was a multi product comparison it was left out of the page title but it's clearly not labeled as a review.

/QUOTE]

Maybe a little harsh. Now granted I didn't appreciate his rude reaction, but I have to admit I was surprised to read that a choice was made of the bunch without actually hearing or seeing their capabilities. To me that sort of like recommending a car based on the options list and not actually driving it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Use a little common sense when reading an article. Normally we call these previews but since it was a multi product comparison it was left out of the page title but it's clearly not labeled as a review.

/QUOTE]

Maybe a little harsh. Now granted I didn't appreciate his rude reaction, but I have to admit I was surprised to read that a choice was made of the bunch without actually hearing or seeing their capabilities. To me that sort of like recommending a car based on the options list and not actually driving it.

You can test drive a car and have the thrill of your life. But if it puts a rod through the block a day out of warranty, the thrill of the drive will count for naught!

Trust me a switching power supply driving 7 power amps, will put a rod through the block soon out of the warranty period. It's an engineering nonsense.

When I'm at an auto dealer, I'm not reviewing the mug holders, I'm looking for the cotcha howlers.

 

[itschris]

You can test drive a car and have the thrill of your life. But if it puts a rod through the block a day out of warranty, the thrill of the drive will count for naught!

Trust me a switching power supply driving 7 power amps, will put a rod through the block soon out of the warranty period. It's an engineering nonsense.

When I'm at an auto dealer, I'm not reviewing the mug holders, I'm looking for the cotcha howlers.

i understand, however, we all know that there has been a ton of equipment which has looked good on paper, but has failed to execute. I think this site has made a solid reputation on exploiting that...and thankfully so.

The great part of this comparison is that it includes all the likely players and bottom line...that's what people want to see. A comparison leaving out a major competitor for instance makes the comparative a whole lot less meaningful because bottom line is that most people want to know what to buy and are perfectly willing to heavily weight the recommendation in their decision making process. Without everyone participating, the consumer is left wondering.

i think comparatives like this perform better site stat-wise because it's easy to read and says a lot . On full reviews when there's 3 pages of graphs and measurements that few people understand, interest is lost.

ive been helping my buddy pick equipment for his new home build. He knows little and is having a hard time warming to the idea of spending a couple grand for a decent system...just because it's foreign to him...you know..the iPod generation. I sent him both comparisons to look at before I read them myself. Te next day when we talked about it, his first question to me was..."...yeah, but which one sounds better? Which one is the easiest to use?". Hence...execution.

i understand there are multiple audiences to address, but I'm not sure about recommending anything based on a feature list. Comparison, preview, review...it's semantics as far as I'm concerned. I think the article wasn't what anyone was really expecting or hoping for. If the title of these sort of articles was called "On Paper" or "By the Numbers" or something like that, I think they'd go over a little better.

that being said, these are just my humble thoughts as a consumer and not someone faced with the myriad of challenges of running a site like this.

 

[Steve81]

I sent him both comparisons to look at before I read them myself. Te next day when we talked about it, his first question to me was..."...yeah, but which one sounds better? Which one is the easiest to use?". Hence...execution.

Questions relating to sound unfortunately get more complicated than can be tackled in a comparo like this (unless you just want to trust my humble set of ears). Most here tend to believe that competently designed electronics will be nigh indistinguishable when used within its limits; I certainly wouldn't place any money on my ability to distinguish the Onkyo from the Yamaha in direct mode. Of course, differences can be had as a result of differing auto-calibration systems, i.e. YPAO, Audyssey, etc. However, to date AH has not tackled that topic in an attempt to declare a king of the hill; I'm not sure whether such an article will happen either given that the variables involved (room, speakers, mic placement) are likely to influence the results.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Things like room correction, Sub EQ, and DEQ are what set these processors apart.

But it's still personal preference.

I still want to know if Yamaha, Pioneer, HK, Anthem have the equivalent of Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which is NOT to be confused with Dynamic VOLUME/Dynamic Range Control.

 

[itschris]

I belive there is a lot of practical, if not intangible, insight to be gained by actually using the equipment. By all accounts, the new Integra should be fantastic, but a couple reviews I've read have said the music audio isn't all that great. Now of course it's subjective, but given the cost, I'm happy to know that and at least give the consideration and may or may not use that in my decision.

There are many factors that make a top of the heap choice. I think most of which comes with actually handling he unit.

Here's a thought, and I presume it may have already been thought of... but given the number of people on this site, would it be possible to purchase equipment then resell it on the site as practically brand new demo units at a slight discount? Again... just a thought.

 

[Steve81]

I belive there is a lot of practical, if not intangible, insight to be gained by actually using the equipment.

No doubt; however, that's beyond the scope of this article. As you've gathered, this is a simple rundown of what everyone is bringing to the table, not a detailed shootout with a listening panel, measurements, etc. Of course, the name could potentially be changed to "Feature Comparison" to avoid confusion and dashed hopes.

 

[gene]

Here's a thought, and I presume it may have already been thought of... but given the number of people on this site, would it be possible to purchase equipment then resell it on the site as practically brand new demo units at a slight discount? Again... just a thought.

You know what, that's a fantastic idea. I put you in charge of buying all of the products on your credit card, shipping them to us for testing and then selling them online. I don't suspect this would be too much of a hassle at all

 

[Alex2507]

I like the article. Since I'm not rushing out to buy a rec'r I don't really want to read a bunch of in depth reviews but I still appreciate the overview. It's nice knowing a little something about something.

Still, ADTG has the right answer yet again. 4311

 

[PENG]

I like the article. Since I'm not rushing out to buy a rec'r I don't really want to read a bunch of in depth reviews but I still appreciate the overview. It's nice knowing a little something about something.

Still, ADTG has the right answer yet again. 4311

I would agree with him also, but on condition that you can actually get a brand new in the box with Denon's 3 year warranty all for $1,000. So far I have no idea who is selling it for 1K or less.

 

[PENG]

So the Harman was dinged only for its power supply...........again? No description of how it sounded, just immediate downgrading because of the power supply and it not being "at least thin". I own a Denon myself, but there seems to be some bias against HK.

At least no body seemed to "dinge" them when they were still class A/B with robust power supply for the little output they specified/adverstised. It was sort of opposite biased towards them at the time as people jumped on the wagon and praised their so called "HK watts" being equated to twice the "Denon/Yamaha" watts yet clearly it was just hypes because they were actually less powerful than their competitors in most real world material. Given a fixed budget, it was silly for them to spend too much relatively on the power supply in order to get the ACD rating and shortage the amp section in the process. IIRC, Gene had an article on that very topic. I wish HK would go back to class A/B but put more money (relative to their past practice) on the amp section so the 2,3 channel output could be maximized like Yamaha's and let the ACD slide a little. Then I would consider their flag ship AVRs, something comparable to their AVR-7300 hopefully.

 

[JMJVK]

I know it's kind of late to chime in on this, but...

I own a Harman Kardon AVR 3600, and though it is not specified anywhere, MHL works fine on it. I play a lot of music while reading eBooks on my TV using my phone with a run-of-mill Best-Buy MHL on HDMI 4. It's very difficult for me to see how it could be unsupported on the new AVR 3700. I could be wrong, but I just find it very hard to believe.

Just my cents.