Which AVR would you pick?

H

Hatfield101

Enthusiast
You all have been awesome in helping me figure out what i need (read want). I am working on shopping again for an AVR.

I plan on listening to music and want to integrate home theater at the same time (mostly sports but some movies as well)

Likely split is 60% music 30% Cable TV 10% movies.

I have a TV that is non ARC compliant (not that I fully understand what that means or if it makes a difference in the choice.

I will be attaching a computer directly to the AVR so DLNA or networking are not important to me (will use HDMI or optical connection from laptop to AVR)

I will start off driving only 2 towers (6 ohms) and eventually add a center and 2 rear channels. I would like Preouts for the ability down the road to listen to music in stereo with an amplifier pushing only the 2 towers.

The 2 AVRs i am currently picking from are the Marantz SR5007 and the NAD T 748 - both will cost me $500

Marantz: Marantz US | SR5007

NAD: T 748 A/V Surround Sound Receiver - NAD Electronics

Thoughts?
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
I have no experience with NAD so I would likely go with Marantz (I don't gamble). I am not saying anything bad about NAD I just haven't demo'ed one yet. Marantz on the other hand has a good rep.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Another vote for Marantz.

I doubt you would hear any differences. However, the NAD reliability has been in question in the last few years.
With that in mind, I would go with Yamaha. Still, one cannot really complain about Marantz, so between the choices offered, I would go with Marantz.
 
H

Hatfield101

Enthusiast
With that in mind, I would go with Yamaha. Still, one cannot really complain about Marantz, so between the choices offered, I would go with Marantz.
Why would you prefer yamaha over the other 2? Price? internal DAC? quality of the circuits? more features for the buck?

Just curious as i have not made up my mind on anything more than i want a "good" HT experience and Superb 2 channel music sound. Thats doesnt seem likely to happen from what i am reading in a sub $1000 dollar AVR. So my thinking was to find clean reputable circuitry with analog preouts for clean amps downstream of the avr. (i cant decide though if passing the signal through the avr will taint/contaminate/alter it). My thinking is an AVR gives me home theater now and music that i can (hopefully) clean up a bit later down the road.

The material that i have read about Audssey makes me think calibration of a 5 speaker system will be just short of automated using it. I am not planning on running a sub. I will use 2 massive towers each with 12 inch subs on an internal crossover, a center channel and 2 rear channels. The quality of sound and particularly music is what will matter most to me. That seems to be fairly straight forward to set up for a 2 channel system and that is how I plan on listening to music.

For less than 600$ with the possibility of being able to "throw" more money at the system later, how would you approach it? Which AVR or separates would you chose?
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Why would you prefer yamaha over the other 2? Price? internal DAC? quality of the circuits? more features for the buck?

Just curious as i have not made up my mind on anything more than i want a "good" HT experience and Superb 2 channel music sound. Thats doesnt seem likely to happen from what i am reading in a sub $1000 dollar AVR. So my thinking was to find clean reputable circuitry with analog preouts for clean amps downstream of the avr. (i cant decide though if passing the signal through the avr will taint/contaminate/alter it). My thinking is an AVR gives me home theater now and music that i can (hopefully) clean up a bit later down the road.

The material that i have read about Audssey makes me think calibration of a 5 speaker system will be just short of automated using it. I am not planning on running a sub. I will use 2 massive towers each with 12 inch subs on an internal crossover, a center channel and 2 rear channels. The quality of sound and particularly music is what will matter most to me. That seems to be fairly straight forward to set up for a 2 channel system and that is how I plan on listening to music.

For less than 600$ with the possibility of being able to "throw" more money at the system later, how would you approach it? Which AVR or separates would you chose?
Yamaha tends to be rock-solid. They have been in the game a loooonng time and have some of the best reliability in the industry. My old (pre-hdmi) receiver was a Yammy and now I have Pio Elite. The only possible downside to the Yammy is the lack of Audysee (but they have their own RC).

At this point, we need to know what speakers you have.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Why would you prefer yamaha over the other 2? Price? internal DAC? quality of the circuits? more features for the buck?
If you read the post to which I was referring, the issue of reliability was raised. With that (i.e., reliability) in mind, I would go with Yamaha. Judging from online complaints, no one makes a more reliable receiver than Yamaha. They also go for a reasonable price, with good feature sets.

As for DACs, you need not worry about them. Every decent brand uses fine DACs.

From a sound standpoint, no one is going to be able to hear the difference between comparably priced receivers from reputable brands, as long as they are set identically (which is something that people almost never do when they compare, which makes their comparisons totally useless).

But, again, there is nothing wrong with Marantz, and no one can reasonably call it a bad choice.


Just curious as i have not made up my mind on anything more than i want a "good" HT experience and Superb 2 channel music sound. Thats doesnt seem likely to happen from what i am reading in a sub $1000 dollar AVR.

You are reading the wrong things. Modern AVRs from reputable companies sound great, as long as they are operated within their design limits (e.g., hooking up 1 ohm Apogee Scintillas and cranking up the volume would not be using them within their design limits).


So my thinking was to find clean reputable circuitry with analog preouts for clean amps downstream of the avr. (i cant decide though if passing the signal through the avr will taint/contaminate/alter it). My thinking is an AVR gives me home theater now and music that i can (hopefully) clean up a bit later down the road.

Most likely, adding an external amplifier will be totally unnecessary. It is ONLY if your speakers are difficult to drive that you should do that. Otherwise, it is a waste of money. And it also is more likely to degrade the sound, as one could mismatch the levels and worsen the noise floor with an added amp. But if one has difficult to drive speakers, then one should get an external amp for them.


The material that i have read about Audssey makes me think calibration of a 5 speaker system will be just short of automated using it. I am not planning on running a sub. I will use 2 massive towers each with 12 inch subs on an internal crossover, a center channel and 2 rear channels. The quality of sound and particularly music is what will matter most to me. That seems to be fairly straight forward to set up for a 2 channel system and that is how I plan on listening to music.

For less than 600$ with the possibility of being able to "throw" more money at the system later, how would you approach it? Which AVR or separates would you chose?

Every good brand of AVR has some sort of automatic setup. Typically, they can be trusted for things like delays and levels, but are not generally to be trusted for crossover settings. As far as I know, no one has ever done a proper comparison to determine which company makes the best automatic setup, but a lack of actual facts does not prevent many people from forming strong opinions anyway.

For $600, I would totally forget about separates, as you cannot get much for that price. I would look for closeout sales on recently discontinued receivers to get the best I could for my money. I would look at Yamaha first, but I would also keep in mind Denon, Marantz, and Pioneer at that price point.

Again, your Marantz choice is fine. If it has all the features you require, it is a fine choice.
 
H

Hatfield101

Enthusiast
Yamaha tends to be rock-solid. They have been in the game a loooonng time and have some of the best reliability in the industry. My old (pre-hdmi) receiver was a Yammy and now I have Pio Elite. The only possible downside to the Yammy is the lack of Audysee (but they have their own RC).

At this point, we need to know what speakers you have.
JBL L7s are the 2 tower speakers that I currently own. I would like to use them in the 5.0 setup. I am a touch concerned about "matching" them with a center channel and the 2 rears. The L7s are 6 ohms and that seems to warrant a few extra setups in Yammy AVRs. Marantz gives every indication that they can handle 6ohms.
 
H

Hatfield101

Enthusiast
Wow. What a ton of help!!!

a Few more questions. My L7s are 6ohms with a minimum recommended power of 35 watts (45 max). A few people have indicated that it would be tough to increase the quality without dropping a few grand. Will the L7s be hard to drive or operate correctly with a $600 AVR? I was thinking a minimum of 50 watt AVR with Marantz and closer to 100 with the rest (i have considered Denon and thought about Yamaha....The Nad was a recent suggestion from a colleague who is a audiophile with a high end system.....plus the goober in me still snickers at saying "nad"....)

I see where you suggested that for 6 bills is should forget about separates. I had initially done so then read about how much better an emotive pre amp and amp sounded than a denon AVR
Do separate components sound better than AV receivers, Part 2 | The Audiophiliac - CNET News

That threw my plan at the time (find a good refurb or last years model) out the window and start thinking about a pre amp and amp(s) and that lead me to discover integrated amps and i almost feel more confused than when i started. I am starting to lean back to the AVR though still getting over the paranoia regarding the sound quality.

Pyhrro - as much reading as I have done, your post has helped me out a boat load. thank you and everyone else for taking the time to help a new comer out. I greatly appreciate it. This site rocks and not only for the reviews, but the genuine help and knowledge that can be found on the forums. I will be hanging around for quite some time now.

Cheers!
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Wow. What a ton of help!!!

a Few more questions. My L7s are 6ohms with a minimum recommended power of 35 watts (45 max). A few people have indicated that it would be tough to increase the quality without dropping a few grand. Will the L7s be hard to drive or operate correctly with a $600 AVR? I was thinking a minimum of 50 watt AVR with Marantz and closer to 100 with the rest (i have considered Denon and thought about Yamaha....The Nad was a recent suggestion from a colleague who is a audiophile with a high end system.....plus the goober in me still snickers at saying "nad"....)

The nominal impedance, if accurate, will not be a problem for any of them. If it is not accurate, then impedance could be an issue. (Many speaker companies basically lie about the impedance, claiming it is higher than it is, in order to sell speakers to people who would otherwise not buy them, due to compatibility issues with their amplifiers. To know this, you would need to find a professional review in which the impedance is actually measured, or you would have to have the proper equipment to do this yourself; and no, an ohmmeter would not be good enough for this, as impedance varies with frequency, and an ohmmeter would just give you dc resistance.)

I see where you suggested that for 6 bills is should forget about separates. I had initially done so then read about how much better an emotive pre amp and amp sounded than a denon AVR
Do separate components sound better than AV receivers, Part 2 | The Audiophiliac - CNET News

His listening test is meaningless. In order to do a proper test, it must be done blind (i.e., one must not know which one it is that one is listening to). And they would also have to be properly level matched. Otherwise, bias will enter into it. This applies to more than just audio; it applies to pretty much everything people do. Here you can read about how it applies to the perception of wine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/world/americas/15iht-wine.1.9221093.html?_r=0

People who believe a wine costs more enjoy it more than if they taste the same wine believing it is cheaper. To guard against such bias, one must taste without any other information. And so it is with audio: to test actual sound, one must listen without knowing anything else (like which one it is that one is listening to). And of course, it must be a fair test, with careful level matching (making sure that they are precisely the same volume, which must be set with test equipment), just like with wine tasting, one would have to not only be tasting blind, but also fair (the same temperature for both wines, for example).


That threw my plan at the time (find a good refurb or last years model) out the window and start thinking about a pre amp and amp(s) and that lead me to discover integrated amps and i almost feel more confused than when i started. I am starting to lean back to the AVR though still getting over the paranoia regarding the sound quality.

Pyhrro - as much reading as I have done, your post has helped me out a boat load. thank you and everyone else for taking the time to help a new comer out. I greatly appreciate it. This site rocks and not only for the reviews, but the genuine help and knowledge that can be found on the forums. I will be hanging around for quite some time now.

Cheers!
You are welcome.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have to agree with Pyrrho, you have to be careful with professional reviews. When I read those reviews I focus mainly on lab measurements, not the reviewers subjective impressions and opinions. They typically hear all sorts of things, for whatever reasons.:D
 
H

Hatfield101

Enthusiast
I have to agree with Pyrrho, you have to be careful with professional reviews. When I read those reviews I focus mainly on lab measurements, not the reviewers subjective impressions and opinions. They typically hear all sorts of things, for whatever reasons.:D
Oh I agree. I suspect some "review" sites are well 'paid' by a few manufacturers.

Here is a review from 1992 with actual figures/measurements that ReUpRo found for me. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=VfXOUs-5DMrHqgGx9oDYAw&url=http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=49385&d=1295024092&cd=13&ved=0CFkQFjAM&usg=AFQjCNG_YHlPkT9fMXcwR3qpda_weseRUQ

FWIW - i bought these speakers brand spanking new and still have em. A reallly old sony reciever is pushing them and its 15 years past time to upgrade.

You guys rock. I am now looking for a 5.1 (going to run 5.0) AVR with the most power I can find with few features that I need. Will be looking on Acessories4less for a few days to get a handle on the pricing then likely pull the trigger. Once i do so i will report how everything sounds. I feel like a kid a few weeks before Christmas!!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
JBL L7s are the 2 tower speakers that I currently own. I would like to use them in the 5.0 setup. I am a touch concerned about "matching" them with a center channel and the 2 rears. The L7s are 6 ohms and that seems to warrant a few extra setups in Yammy AVRs. Marantz gives every indication that they can handle 6ohms.
Nice specs! If in good conditions I bet they are very nice sounding speakers. Having seen their specs now, I would say the SR5004 can do better with the help of a two channel amp, like two Outlaw monoblocks. Alternatively, if you can find the 4 ohm rated Denon AVR-4311 for under 1K you will be in good shape.

The SR5007 on its own should do just fine too in a smaller room and if you don't listen to those highly compressed rock music at high SPL.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My music tastes range from Blues to Jazz to Jam bands to hair rock (lol).

Pyrrho sent me down the Yammy street and this is what i came up with

YAMAHA RX-V473 5.1-Channel Network AV Receiver | Accessories4less
That won't do your big JBLs much good.:D If you want a Yamaha, get one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A830-7-2-Channel-AVENTAGE-Receiver/dp/B00BQHCCQQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389925096&sr=8-1&keywords=rxa830

for $849.99

or

Amazon.com: Yamaha Rx-a820 7.2- Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver: Electronics

for $699.99

They have 7.2 preouts so you have the option of adding a 2 channel amp for the big L/R towers any time you are ready.
 

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