Smoke Does NOT Always Mean Fire

[herbu]

There was a recent thread here which included some discussion on "Safety" issues of a product. That thread has mercifully been locked. It included some common assumptions about what a "Safety" issue is, and I have seen the same assumptions made within the industry when some problem is reported. Due to the potential severity of any real "Safety" issue, it is prime territory for people to cry "The sky is falling" without understanding all the facts.

Product design today includes a host of redundant measures to prevent a real "Safety" issue, including electrical design and non-flammable materials. Testing under extreme and nearly impossible conditions is exhaustive. Various independent agencies like CE and UL exist, and different governments have different requirements for products that sell in their geography. All of these agencies charge a company to evaluate their product, so companies generally select the one(s) that most universally cover the requirements for the geographies in which they want to do business.

I can tell you that probably less than 1% of all problems reported from the field as possible "Safety" issues turn out to really be that. Those are the ones for which you are most likely to see a recall.

If one customer reports a problem, the company analyzes it, finds a safety issue and decides not to address the population already in the field, then another customer with the same problem has his house burned down and family injured, the company is liable for punitive damages. It would be a very short thread if every case where this happened with consumer electronics was listed.

NO COMPANY TAKES THIS LIGHTLY. I learned that while the most horrible sounding report from the field does justify a quick response and evaluation, it does not justify jumping to any conclusion. If you are compelled to make an assumption or jump to a conclusion, you will be right 99.x% of the time to assume the horrible report IS NOT a real "Safety" issue.

Even if the customer accurately reports the observed symptoms, actual analysis in the lab will likely prove there was never any danger to life or property. This is why the design engineers get paid more than the manufacturing engineers. If it was not so, you would see consumer electronics companies come and go as frequently as you change underwear.

All this is not to say that real "Safety" issues don't exist. But it is an admonisment to never assume any problem is a "Safety" issue, or that any company does not take "Safety" very seriously. If it is a company that is large enough to be known/recognized, I can guarantee you they do.

 

[slipperybidness]

If you have electronics fail at home in a dramatic manner (sparks, smoke, fire, etc), then the best approach is to assume that it is a safety concern UNTIL someone with enough knowledge can confirm or discredit your concerns.

End of story. Whether or not it is a true safety concern is a moot point. You approach these situations with caution until you have all of the info to make an educated and informed decision.

I work in hazardous environments every day. Not unsafe environments, hazardous environments.

 

[markw]

The only time smoke or flames coming from my equipment doesn't worry me is when it's my smoker or BBQ.

 

[sharkman]

No doubt, and the fire may be contained within the component, but the burnt electronics smell can stick around for a long time. How much does it cost to remove this kind of smoke damage? Personally I prefer my electronics to have a UL or CSA certification on it, which means the company spent money to have these labs test and certify their gear. Heck, even NAD has this on their $300 dollar CD player, so it's not like the cost to get tested is an issue on sub thousand dollar items. To each their own I guess. Also, not sure why an emotiva thread was locked, I've found that the membership here is more sophisticated than your typical forum and can hash these things out without being shut down.

 

[lsiberian]

I'm not sure how you produce smoke without fire. Capacitors do blow out sometimes. Especially if you stick them in a socket.

 

[herbu]

the best approach is to assume that it is a safety concern UNTIL someone with enough knowledge can confirm or discredit your concerns.

Exactly right for the company... not for a bystander reading on a forum only what the poster says.

The only time smoke or flames coming from my equipment doesn't worry me is when it's my smoker or BBQ.

True again, (and thumbs up on the smoker).

My intent was to point out that even within the engineering community of a company, it is perilous to draw conclusions based solely on a report from a customer. Analysis is required. And due to the nature of an internet forum, caution becomes more than prudent.

We all know people, (real people, not forum people... ), who adopt strong personal opinions based on something they heard on the radio, tv, or read in a paper or magazine without doing any further research or having any deeper understanding of the situation than what they heard. Those opinions, however strongly defended, are rarely given credence or held in particularly high regard by thinking people. I like to give a company the same deference before jumping on a bashing bandwagon.

 

[UrdnotWrex]

That thread has mercifully been locked..

Potential safety issues (or not) aside, there was also a dialog about customer service (or apparent lack thereof), that should have been allowed to continue. Regardless, I think there is enough for people to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Speedskater]

On the other side of the coin, we have to recognize that a "UL" sticker only means that the product is safe. The sticker does not mean that the product will do it's advertised function well. This is important in products like surge protectors. They only test for safety not how well it protects.