A warning to anyone considering Emotiva products

[UrdnotWrex]

I wanted to share my experiences with Emotiva products and services in the hopes that others can avoid their abhorrent product quality and service.

I purchased an XPA-3 in 2010. I live in an apartment (for now), so while I do enjoy listening critically, I haven't yet fully 'stretched' any of my audio equipment. Bearing that in mind, the XPA-3 I had purchased (along with the rest of my audio gear) has, to this day, never been really leaned into. Despite this fact, and after what I would describe as light use, my XPA-3 experienced a catastrophic failure in the form of (what I would later be told was) a blown capacitor. We were watching a movie at the time (I had guests over), and suddenly a loud bang was heard (it was seriously loud) followed by a lot of arcing and smoking. I had to run to the wall (spilling our drinks all over the floor in the process) and start frantically tearing power cords out of the wall. In short, it was a wholly unpleasant experience. Now--I could be convinced that this may have been the result of a power issue (despite the fact that the amp this XPA-3 replaced had been running in parallel with all of this equipment in the same place for 6 years without issue), but I gave Emotiva the benefit of the doubt, assumed this was a fluke, and paid the roughly $80 to ship the amp back for repairs without complaint.

I later ordered a UMC-200 along with two XPA-100 monoblocks. To my dismay, I found that one of the XPA-100s was displaying troubling behavior directly out of the box. It would constantly go into fault protect mode, even with nothing plugged into it. In searching this forum, I found a thread wherein another Emotiva customer described a similar issue, and was instructed to run a blow dryer over the top of the amp--as some condition from the factory could result in excessive static buildup inside the case. I tried this and it actually worked for a time, but the amp kept intermittently returning to fault protect mode (the other was always fine, even after I switched them). Recognizing that the unit was clearly defective at this point, I emailed support@emotiva.com on 4/15/2013 and described my issue. After receiving no response, I forwarded my original email and a request for response again to support@emotiva.com on 5/6/2013. I STILL received NO response, and so I forwarded the email to every distribution group at Emotiva I could find, along with the only person I had dealt with directly at the time--Janna from accounting. She responded immediately and told me someone would get back to me. When support did finally get back to me, they tried to advise that if I needed help, I should call. NO. It just so happens that Emotiva's office hours are the exact hours I work as well, so it is NOT convenient for me to call. If we have to call to get support, why does the support@emotiva.com distribution list even exist??!?!!? I should be able to engage and communicate with support through email if that is my preferred method.

Now as if all this wasn't enough, let's get to the refurbished UMC-200 I purchased along with the monoblocks in early February, 2013. I recently attempted to perform the firmware update to version 1.52.02.47. I did not make note of the version present before attempting the upgrade, but I do know that it was from before v1.52.02.39. After following the original PDF instructions, I noticed that the DSP2 module seemed to install much too quickly (returned a 'successful' result after only a second, with no change in the progress bar). Despite following the instructions exactly, the unit continued to display 'ERROR DSP2 NOT MATCH!', followed by 'ERROR! DSP2 Code 20130417155506', before booting. This was clearly the result of the DSP2 module not installing correctly (all other modules were successfully installed).

I proceeded to try every method outlined in several online threads, to no avail.

I was already relatively dissatisfied with Emotiva products based on my previous experience to date, but this latest experience has definitely further soured my taste for Emotiva products and services. I don't enjoy being critical, but I doubt it's entirely unfair of me to say that I've lost all faith in Emotiva products and would not be comfortable purchasing another, nor would I ever recommend them to anyone. Upon expressing these sentiments to Emotiva, I was met with defensive avoidance and my thread on their forum was summarily removed. THEY WILL NOT ADDRESS YOUR ISSUES, they will attempt to brush it under the rug. Luckily, they can only sanitize their own forums. 3 out of 4 Emotiva products I have purchased have been defective or unsatisfactory and I have had to ship them back for repairs at my own expense. I find this to be unacceptable. I would urge anyone considering an Emotiva product to reconsider.

 

[ImcLoud]

I'm sorry to hear this, I always try to call about problems, I think after no email reply after the first 24 hours, I would have called, I understand you work the same hours as they are open pretty basic hours 8 or so to 5 or so if I remember correctly and a lot of people work during these hours, but I think I would have found a way to call during lunch or some break time...
If I were you I would also never buy the products again, I would sell and replace the ones you have with another brand, the good thing is you won't lose much in selling the equipment because it has a good resale value, but the bad part is there aren't many companies that price as competitively...

I have at least $8000 of emo gear and never had an issue, I hope when and if I do I don't get treated poorly because as you are doing I would sell and never buy again anything emo...

 

[UrdnotWrex]

Consider yourself lucky, sir. Their track record with me has obviously been less than stellar. I originally intended to air my grievances only in their own forum, where they had control and could address my assertions and show their dedication to quality service. Once they decided to censor it, and blow me off instead, I decided that I would do everything in my power to post my experience with them in every AV/tech forum and review site I could find. I would like to ensure that as many of their potential customers as possible are exposed to my story before making their purchasing decision.

 

[ImcLoud]

If they did not stand up to the specifics of their advertised warranty your best bet is to contact the BBB, and let them know, letting future customers know is all well and good, but the problem is, its not going to help your situation, and there are many many more happy emo customer than not {believe me I have been to emo envents, people love this stuff}... I would also keep posting on their website and let them know you are not happy, and link them to other posts...

 

[UrdnotWrex]

Unfortunately, I don't think anything is going to help my situation. I am simply going to have to ship the UMC-200 back to them at my own expense and hope it works when I get it back. They are very aware of my dissatisfaction (I did also lodge a complaint with BBB), I just don't think they care.

 

[sharkman]

Once they get it working, you could sell it off, though you'll lose some money. It seems Emotiva does indeed have a failure rate, threads like these pop up now and again. Expect to have some boys from the Emo forum come over here to challenge your experience.

I'm a former Emotiva fan boy, my latest post regarding them explains my thoughts pretty well.

 

[UrdnotWrex]

It would most certainly seem so, Sharkman. Your prediction about Emotiva fanboys is spot on as well. When I posted this in their forum, of course a few people were reasonable, but I also got everything ranging from straight up personal attacks to assertions that I should just call and that I'm being unreasonable for expecting them to respond to their support email distro in a reasonable timeframe, which is--of course, absurd.

 

[sawzalot]

Before this thread turns into a "Fanboy" vs. "Reconsider" we should be clear about one aspect, there is a big difference between fanboys and actual satisfied customers/owners of Emo products. I have had a few EMO units and they all worked perfectly as they should and my calls for warranty transfers when I moved on were answered and addressed in a professional manner through the CS. What I would like to say , I guess, is that this forum is mostly 1st class audioholics that speak true to form, no B.S. So when most satisfied folks talk about the experience they have with EMO it is in fact coming from a satisfied point of view not from the so called fanboy perspective, as if I even knew what that is.
It does indeed bite that your experience with the product has been so awful and I hope for your peace of mind that this company will address all of the issues you have until you too are satisfied.

 

[UrdnotWrex]

Thanks sawzalot--I don't disagree with your post and I admire your fair and balanced approach. I don't doubt that there are many satisfied customers--unfortunately, my experience has been less than stellar, and I fear I am not the only one. If I had known I was going to have these experiences, I would not have purchased from Emotiva. I'm just throwing my experience out there for the sake of full disclosure.

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks sawzalot--I don't disagree with your post and I admire your fair and balanced approach. I don't doubt that there are many satisfied customers--unfortunately, my experience has been less than stellar, and I fear I am not the only one. If I had known I was going to have these experiences, I would not have purchased from Emotiva. I'm just throwing my experience out there for the sake of full disclosure.

Sawz hit the nail on the head, when you open a thread to air out your experience with a company you need to expect the "happy" customers to chime in and give their positive experiences also... I have heard about 3 dissatisfied emo customers since I started buying from them, that is easily offset by my experiences as well as A LOT of others that love the stuff... Like I said before, just sell the stuff, it has a following and you will get a lot of your money back, depending what you spent on your xpa3 you could get more than you paid, I bought my xda1 for $199 and sold it for $50 more than that a year later!!! But obviously you know what a 600 watt amplifier is going to cost you to replace it, the best bet is outlaw 2200's I own a few of them and they are really nice too...

IMO you want to take everything into consideration, you bought emo because it was affordable, I always tell my customers, "you get what you pay for , you want to pay for a $3000 boiler vs a $9000 boiler be prepared to get 1/3rd the boiler" with emotiva you seem to get more than the price difference, and believe me I have owned other amps, yamaha and BK cost me more to fix then to buy emos...

 

[itschris]

I've never been a fan of Emo. I'm still sour from way back when I was waiting and waiting for them to release thier processor. I think it came almost 2 years late and they still had their customers beta test the damn thing. They are what they are. They make affordable good looking stuff which lowers the barrier of entry to getting past the standard consumer grade fare.

Hopefully, they can get their house in order and right the ship as these very types of complaints seem to be a bit more common lately.

 

[slipperybidness]

I own XDA-1 and USP-1 and have been happy with those, absolutely no problems. I was well-aware of the XDA-1 shortcomings at purchase, but it really didn't matter for my application. Also, I originally paid $250 for the XDA, then like 2 weeks later it dropped to $199. I placed a call and got my $50 immediately refunded, so I was pretty happy about that. This has probably been about 1.5yrs since purchase.

All that being said, I am really nervous about continued business with EMO. Too many horror stories coming up, the whole Sherbourn consolidation, and the acquisition of Bob Carver followed by his early departure. Delayed XMC, delayed XSP, questionable UMC-1.

Right now, I think Emo is trying to do way too much way too fast and they are having serious growing pains. It seems that the CS is also suffering for it. They need to tread very carefully and get a good business plan, and focus on their historical core strengths: Value, CS, and analog gear.

 

[sharkman]

You have to hand to to Dan Laufman, he really cares, he's got a big vision and apparently he's bringing at least some manufacturing back to the US. But I agree, it continues to be a rocky road. On top of the Sherbourn and Carver failures, there was also TacT. The processor market has eluded many good audio manufacturers, so Emotiva is in good company, but they are now going to release(if their latest projection is still accurate) a $2000 processor that only does 7.1. with back surround channels, if that's still correct. It's outdated before it's even released.

They've introduced and dropped so many components, I'm sure it's hurt them. Subwoofers, speakers, ceiling speakers, cable lines, the UPA amp line, I think I agree: I think they are indeed trying to do way too much and the CS is suffering. Their business plan was a head scratcher to me, introducing and then discontinuing so many products does not build a company. They need to focus on their core strengths.

Edit: As far as the Fanboy vs Reconsider type of thread, to be fair to Emotiva there are 2 general types of "customer unhappy" posters. The person who has experienced issues and is unhappy with the result, and the person who has experienced issues and is unreasonable or freaking out. The latter's impressions should be taken with a grain of salt, but let's face it, a company has to deal with both in a professional manner.

 

[j_garcia]

My UMC-200 would not update initially either, and after a few "work arounds", I was able to get it fully updated. I had a minor problem with my amp right out of the box as well; one that I did not consider serious, but they still replaced it. I do see the growing pains there also and it is kind of disheartening, but the gear that I have from them is working fine for me currently.

 

[lsiberian]

I think the real warning is you get what you pay for. If Adam has a bad experience with a company you know the company probably sucks. Of course I personally don't see any appeal with any of their products. I will say that 2010 to 2013 is still a decent run for an amp. I've had amp channels go out early than that before. Congrats on blowing up an amp with friends present that's a fun story to tell someday.

 

[cpp]

If your equipment is under warranty and you are not getting the satisfaction from the manufacturer, ( I hope your keeping notes, dates/times/emails/whom you spoke to/, you find yourself an attorney and have them write a letter to Emotiva. You would be surprised of the results..

There is good and bad in everything that is manufactured in this world, some people have no issues and some do and it could be any product from cars, doctors, cell service you name it, it's going to happen... But sometimes patience and persistence prevails..

 

[slipperybidness]

If your equipment is under warranty and you are not getting the satisfaction from the manufacturer, ( I hope your keeping notes, dates/times/emails/whom you spoke to/, you find yourself an attorney and have them write a letter to Emotiva. You would be surprised of the results..

Heck, a lot of the better credit cards will also offer consumer protection, above and beyond warranty, etc.

The moral is to use a CC that's "got your back"

 

[TLS Guy]

I think the real warning is you get what you pay for. If Adam has a bad experience with a company you know the company probably sucks. Of course I personally don't see any appeal with any of their products. I will say that 2010 to 2013 is still a decent run for an amp. I've had amp channels go out early than that before. Congrats on blowing up an amp with friends present that's a fun story to tell someday.

The problem with that story is that exploding smoothing capacitors are very dangerous. When I was a teen I started to service a pre WW II tube radio. As soon as I went to check voltages, the main cap exploded. I received some shrapnel and narrowly escaped serious injury. I leaned you needed a Variac after that to bring the line voltage up slowly. A cap should never explode on a new unit. That means they are purchasing components from highly questionable Chinese suppliers.

I met the Emotiva chaps at Sota a few years ago, and I found them really personable. I did make a note however of a very large part count on their amp boards. This is not a good thing. Elegant design leads to a low part count, like in my Quad amps that I universally recommend.

The only way you can sell cheap gear, is to use elegant design, and keep the part count down and keep overhead low. Buying cheap components, which I suspect is what is going on here, never works. Failures are costly and convert profit to loss fast. Then it becomes all too tempting to blow failures off and give customers the run around. Then comes loss of reputation followed by bankruptcy.

A power amp will not go out of date so you might as well buy a good one. If you buy a Quad amp, the overwhelming probability is that you will have it for a life time. Then it becomes very cheap power indeed.

I'm really sad about these reports. To me they are credible and I find it sad. I have no ax to grind, as I would never be an Emotiva customer. I have recommended their products on these forums, but I won't in future. This last report is credible and one too many.

If they have anymore capacitor explosions, they need to do the right thing and recall those units and replace the caps. To me it seems highly likely the OPs explosion will not be an isolated incident. Since this is such a rare event, if they have even one more, they have a serious problem and a big potential legal problem.

 

[PENG]

Not sure if I missed something but I don't see any UL or CSA marking on the XPA-3? There is a CE marking on it but that does not mean much in terms of safety related certification. For power amps I would not buy anything without either UL, CSA, CSA NTRL/C, UL-C marking on it.

 

[fuzz092888]

Not sure if I missed something but I don't see any UL or CSA marking on the XPA-3? There is a CE marking on it but that does not mean much in terms of safety related certification. For power amps I would not buy anything without either UL, CSA, CSA NTRL/C, UL-C marking on it.

Unless I'm mistaken, none of their products have any of those listings. That was always a big issue with DS-21 about products not carrying safety certification. With the exploding cap, it would seem that his issue about insurance policies not covering damages due to the cause being an uncertified device is more relevant than ever with Emotiva.