Help with Marantz (SR6008 vs. SR5008)

Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
Hello, I am having a hard time seeing why the SR6008 is almost $400 more than the SR5008 and would appreciate any help with this and the order to purchase my equipment.

From doing a side by side comparison I see the 10W difference and the addition HDMI out (which I would not need). Is there something I am missing here?

The room this will go into is ~1600 cubic feet and will power a 5.1 system (well the sub will have its own amplifier). I plan to include some ID companies in my short list and want to audition any potential purchases in the room they will end up in. This makes me believe I need to land on a receiver first so all of my comparisons are done with the same power source.

A couple of questions outside of the SR6008 vs. SR5008 comparison:

1. Some of the ID speakers I am looking into (Salk song towers for instance) are 4 ohm. Are either of the Marantz's ok for this?

2. Related to this I have been reading up on getting a 3 channel amp, connecting it to the receiver pre-out and running the front three speakers. Some posts say this will make for better sound, some say it will just increase volume. What benefit would this have for my room and a speaker set that is Salk, ascend or maybe Kef Q900? If I go this route it would be nice to save $400 and get the SR5008 and put that towards an amp.

3. For the separate amp route are there any recommendations around $800 other than emotiva? I would not want to go used for this.

Thanks for all of the advice in advance!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
For a 5.1 system, there aren't many differences that I see between those models. The main one that I noticed is that the 6008 can decode DSD for SACD playback (if you don't use SACD, or if don't pass DSD from your player to your receiver, then it won't matter). The 6008 has more connections and more advanced processing for front ambiance speakers, but the front ambiance speakers don't matter in a 5.1 setup.

Neither model is rated for 4-ohm speakers, at least according to the back panel images. However, as long as you aren't cranking your system up really loud, it likely won't matter. The lower the impedance, the more current will be drawn from the amps at any given volume level (assuming that the speaker sensitivities are the same). The receivers are designed for a given max current level, above which they will begin to exceed their thermal design limits. At lower volume levels, it won't matter. At higher volume levels, you might find that you can't run 4-ohm speakers for as long before the receiver's protection circuit kicks in.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Some more differences are listed here:

Marantz SR5008, SR6008, and SR7008 Receivers Preview | Audioholics

As far as the addition of an amplifier goes, there are two primary reasons to do so. One is if one has difficult to drive speakers that the built-in amplifier cannot handle. The other is just for more power (giving one increased volume). For most people, it is a total waste of money to buy an external amplifier, but with some speakers it is necessary for extended, loud volume.

I recommend that you select your speakers before you decide to buy a separate amplifier. You really have no way of knowing if it will do any good at all until the speaker is selected.
 
Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
Pyrrho would you mind on expanding on how to know which speakers would benefit from a separate amplifier? I know the 4 ohm is part of the picture.

Some more differences are listed here:

Marantz SR5008, SR6008, and SR7008 Receivers Preview | Audioholics

As far as the addition of an amplifier goes, there are two primary reasons to do so. One is if one has difficult to drive speakers that the built-in amplifier cannot handle. The other is just for more power (giving one increased volume). For most people, it is a total waste of money to buy an external amplifier, but with some speakers it is necessary for extended, loud volume.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
A couple of questions outside of the SR6008 vs. SR5008 comparison:

1. Some of the ID speakers I am looking into (Salk song towers for instance) are 4 ohm. Are either of the Marantz's ok for this?
Both Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy have been asked this often. Their answer is that any decent AVR that delivers an honest 75-80 watts/channel rated at 8 ohms will drive SongTowers. They are 4 ohm speakers, but they are easily driven by nearly all AVRs on the market.

I have SongTowers and I can confirm this. My old Denon AVR, at 70 wpc, did fine with them. They also do well with much more power, but they don't require it.

Both the 5008 and 6008 have a full set of pre-amp output jacks for 7 channels. That will allow you the option of adding external amps for any or all those channels. If you plan on adding external amps in the future, I'd say get the 5008. The additional cost of the 6008 model is not for the small amount of extra power, but for other capabilities that may or may not matter to you. Adam is right about that.

The benefit of more powerful amplification is subtle. It's more for avoiding clipping than a more tangible benefit such as "better sound". Try the AVR first before you pay for external amps. You may be satisfied with it as is.
 
Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
Thank you for this. I like the idea of saving $400 and getting the SR5008 especially considering I do not need any of the added features of the SR6008 after looking at the comparison Pyrrho posted (thanks by the way!).


Both Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy have been asked this often. Their answer is that any decent AVR that delivers an honest 75-80 watts/channel rated at 8 ohms will drive SongTowers. They are 4 ohm speakers, but they are easily driven by nearly all AVRs on the market.

I have SongTowers and I can confirm this. My old Denon AVR, at 70 wpc, did fine with them. They also do well with much more power, but they don't require it.

Both the 5008 and 6008 have a full set of pre-amp output jacks for 7 channels. That will allow you the option of adding external amps for any or all those channels. If you plan on adding external amps in the future, I'd say get the 5008. The additional cost of the 6008 model is not for the small amount of extra power, but for other capabilities that may or may not matter to you. Adam is right about that.

The benefit of more powerful amplification is subtle. It's more for avoiding clipping than a more tangible benefit such as "better sound". Try the AVR first before you pay for external amps. You may be satisfied with it as is.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Pyrrho would you mind on expanding on how to know which speakers would benefit from a separate amplifier? I know the 4 ohm is part of the picture.
Low impedances are a big part of the picture. But another factor is sensitivity. Some speakers require more power than others for the same volume. That also brings us to the space in which the gear will be located, and just how loud you want to play it, which are other factors in how much power you need.


If the impedance is not an issue with the speakers you select, you should try them without a separate power amp. If the receiver gets too hot running them, then you may wish to get a power amp. If the receiver seems to distort at high volume, you may wish to get a power amp (though it may be difficult for you to distinguish between the amplifier distorting and the speaker distorting, and the added power amp will only help if it was the amplifier that was distorting, not the speaker; either way, though, if you are hearing distortion, you should turn down the volume). And obviously, if the receiver's protection circuitry causes it to shut down after extended loud playback, you need more power for such volumes and should get a power amp if you are going to listen that way.


But going back to the earlier point for a moment: I used to run a receiver that retailed for about $600 with speakers that retailed for well over $6k. It sounded great (as it should with such speakers). I replaced the receiver with one that retailed for about $1700, because I wanted more (and newer) features. It also happens to be able to put out about twice the power of the older, less expensive model. But in my case, the old receiver was capable of driving my speakers to levels that I found painful with crystal clarity, so the extra power was useless in my case. Unless I engage a feature that affects the sound, it sounds the same as before. So, if I had purchased the more powerful receiver for its power and not its features, it would have been a total waste of money for me. This is the sort of situation many people are in with their receivers; they just don't need any more power, so spending money on it is just a total waste of money. Of course, for those who need it, it isn't a waste of money.

I certainly would not try running my 3 ohm Apogee speakers (that I use in my main 2 channel system) to high levels with my surround receiver. But my home theater speakers are an honest 8 ohms, of normal sensitivity, so nothing special is needed to drive them. And so I do not bother with a separate amplifier for them, as I do not wish to waste my money on something that will not improve the sound. With my main 2 channel system, I use a separate power amplifier, because of the 3 ohm speakers in that system.


One other thing: It takes a doubling of power to get just a 3dB increase in volume (which also means a quadrupling of power for just 6dB, octupling [8x] for 9dB, etc), so if your home theater receiver is not powerful enough, you should be looking at very powerful amplifiers in order to make it worthwhile getting one.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
All Marantz are listed as 6 Ohm minimum. I've run 4 Ohm speakers on quite a few of them, but if you want to listen loud, none of them are truly going to cut it, so an amp with the 5008 would be a better choice than spending more on the 6008.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Thank you for this. I like the idea of saving $400 and getting the SR5008 especially considering I do not need any of the added features of the SR6008 after looking at the comparison Pyrrho posted (thanks by the way!).
As an added note, I've listened to SongTowers driven by various amps from as low 35 watts/channel to as high as 250 watts. All of them drove the STs nicely.

You might have noticed in my signature line, that I use powerful external amps to drive my STs. I owned this amp before I bought the STs and use it because it's there.

The added benefit of more power allows for a barely noticeable cleaner sound, especially in the lower bass. It took me weeks before I really was aware that I was listening to music louder than I had previously only because I had (unknowingly) judged overall volume by the amount of noise in the background. With different amps, apparently the background noise was lower, allowing me to listen at higher volumes without hearing unpleasantness.

It's not unlike judging your driving speed in a car by road noise. If you change to different tires, your sense of speed is off.

As I said before, the difference was subtle, and describing it in these words makes the effect seem larger than it really was.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I bought my amp because my previous speakers are 4 Ohm. Current ones are 8 Ohm and I technically don't need all that power now, but it isn't like I am going to downgrade either.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would get the Denon X4000 for Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ.

I think output is 143WPC x 2Ch into 8 ohms, 225WPC x 2Ch into 4 ohms, 103WPC x 5Ch into 8 ohms (RMS @ 1% THD).

My Denon 3312 has about the same output. It drives my 4 ohms 85dB/2.83v/m Phil3 towers fabulously. :D
 
S

sjcguy

Junior Audioholic
I knew it. Someone would recommend Denon :).
I have been torn between the SR6008 vs yammy RX-A1030. I am using an external amp to drive 4ohm speakers and limit to 5.1 setup so I may save money with the SR5008. Would anyone know if Marantz compromised the sound quality in the SR5008 by using the cheaper components and DACs?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I knew it. Someone would recommend Denon :).
I have been torn between the SR6008 vs yammy RX-A1030. I am using an external amp to drive 4ohm speakers and limit to 5.1 setup so I may save money with the SR5008. Would anyone know if Marantz compromised the sound quality in the SR5008 by using the cheaper components and DACs?
If you bypass the special processing (because different brands have different processing modes) and set them up identically, I doubt you will be able to hear any difference at all between a comparably priced Yamaha, Marantz, or Denon. I would not worry about the DACs in any of these brands.

Right now, you can get some deals on discontinued Yamaha models:

Yamaha RX-A1020 7.2-channel home theater receiver with Apple AirPlay® at Crutchfield.com

Yamaha RX-A2020 9.2-channel home theater receiver with Apple AirPlay® at Crutchfield.com

There are other stores that offer the same prices. And you can check Yamaha's web site to compare with the current models, to make sure they have the features you require.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I knew it. Someone would recommend Denon :).
I have been torn between the SR6008 vs yammy RX-A1030. I am using an external amp to drive 4ohm speakers and limit to 5.1 setup so I may save money with the SR5008. Would anyone know if Marantz compromised the sound quality in the SR5008 by using the cheaper components and DACs?
Why? Is Denon bad ?

The SR6008 doesn't have Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ, while the X4000 has XT32 + dual Sub EQ.
 
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