Yamaha Separates? The CX-A5000 AV Preamp and MX-A5000 11CH Amplifier is here!

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So basically Yamaha took the amp section of the RX-Z11, turned it into power amp, then paired it with an updated processor? It costs about the same as a Z-11 too, so it's basically a Z-12?

That's a good idea.

A lot of people truly believe that pre-pros sound better than AVRs just because the pre-pros are "separates".

And most people who spend that kind of money probably want separates anyway. Just because.

So it's a great idea to take a "Z12" and separate it into an amp + a pre-pro.

 

[bwillcox]

That's a good idea.

A lot of people truly believe that pre-pros sound better than AVRs just because the pre-pros are "separates".

And most people who spend that kind of money probably want separates anyway. Just because.

So it's a great idea to take a "Z12" and separate it into an amp + a pre-pro.

And in my case, the system I was using the Z11 in had separate power amps for all of the channels any (all 11 of them) so have an AVR meant that I had a bunch of added electronics in the box that generated heat but I didn't use. Overall, I feel that the CX-A5000 is a worthwhile upgrade for the preamp portion of the Z11 that I was previously using (in features and performance).

 

[RichB]

^^^

Does the CX-A5000 YPAO have subwoofer equalization like Audyssey?

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I really can't claim for how the 5.1 music mixes work as I really only ever had two channel systems, and I would much more like to spend the money on two as good channels as possible, rather than 5, although I fully respect people who have differing views and different ways of looking at these things.

I was in Musikverein last May, it's where they do the famous new year concerts, it's a shocking experience and highly recommended....
The obvious thing there is the absolute lack of ability to pinpoint locations of any instruments, whether we can really reproduce such an event in a two channel, 5 channel or 10 channel system I really don't know, probably not possible to reproduce the sheer smack and the dynamic..... well, you just have to experience this guys

You cannot beat live.

Even a marching band snare drums blow away the dynamics of any recording I have heard on my system. I think I would be scared by the sound of wood on metal coming from my speakers; but I would like to try it

- Rich

 

[davee86]

That's a good idea.

A lot of people truly believe that pre-pros sound better than AVRs just because the pre-pros are "separates".

And most people who spend that kind of money probably want separates anyway. Just because.

So it's a great idea to take a "Z12" and separate it into an amp + a pre-pro.

We have the same here in Poland, whenever I enter an audio store, they tell me that "this amp will sound better than this avr" (the same manufacturer) and in the other shop they point at the other pair of what I consider interior sblings telling me the same - so that comes pretty much to badges and adds they have on their shop's doors or walls, not to the sound quality. So why the hack should I listen to a guy who is the X company's authorised reseller and who has a 10X bigger margin on niche market and who wants to bring me down and yet cheer me up by selling a high quality stereo after I bought an AVR at his competition's.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

^^^

Does the CX-A5000 YPAO have subwoofer equalization like Audyssey?

- Rich

You notice I've been asking the same question?

Dual Sub EQ is very important. Well, at least Audyssey Dynamic EQ is very important to me.

I don't really care about the Room EQ itself. I just care about the Dynamic EQ/Sub EQ.

So if YPAO does not have a Dynamic EQ/Sub EQ equivalent, that is a HUGE minus IMO.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We have the same here in Poland, whenever I enter an audio store, they tell me that "this amp will sound better than this avr" (the same manufacturer) and in the other shop they point at the other pair of what I consider interior sblings telling me the same - so that comes pretty much to badges and adds they have on their shop's doors or walls, not to the sound quality. So why the hack should I listen to a guy who is the X company's authorised reseller and who has a 10X bigger margin on niche market and who wants to bring me down and yet cheer me up by selling a high quality stereo after I bought an AVR at his competition's.

We know that AVR will sound exactly the same as Pre-pro or preamp in "Direct" mode.

Let them say what they want if it makes them happy. Everyone deserves to be happy.

 

[RichB]

You notice I've been asking the same question?

Dual Sub EQ is very important. Well, at least Audyssey Dynamic EQ is very important to me.

Yes, I should have attributed that question.
When I first read that YPAO did not do subwoofer equalization, I was surprised.
This might be something I am interested in trying someday. It comes highly recommended

We know that AVR will sound exactly the same as Pre-pro or preamp in "Direct" mode.

Let them say what they want if it makes them happy. Everyone deserves to be happy.

In my game room, I have an Aventage A820 receiver driving a pari of Revel M20's mated with a Grotti sub. I ran YPAO and I have to say, I like it about as much as Audyssey. Meaning, not so much. The M20's are wall mounted with OmniMounts about 8" from the wall.

Not ideal to say the least, but the pool players must be able to walk under them without hitting their heads. Priorities must be maintained

YPAO standard is not bad, but Pure Direct wins again.
I send the two channel outputs to the sub as well and used its control to tune the crossover. I have a BDP-95 in this system and its analog outputs sound better than HDMI for 2 channel LPCM. I call em as I hear em.

For the record, "Pure Direct" and "Direct" do not sound the same on the Marantz AV8801. Direct is brighter.I know Gene thinks I am crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Marantz followed the Onkyo lead to make the processor a bit brighter when not in Pure Direct mode. This accounts for a great many veils being lifted.

The default Audyssey calibration also boosts the surrounds by 3DB which miraculously produces a much better enveloping surround sound.

Call me a cynic, but I do not think these are accidents.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, I should have attributed that question.
When I first read that YPAO did not do subwoofer equalization, I was surprised.
This might be something I am interested in trying someday. It comes highly recommended

In my game room, I have an Aventage A820 receiver driving a pari of Revel M20's mated with a Grotti sub. I ran YPAO and I have to say, I like it about as much as Audyssey. Meaning, not so much. The M20's are wall mounted with OmniMounts about 8" from the wall.

Not ideal to say the least, but the pool players must be able to walk under them without hitting their heads. Priorities must be maintained

YPAO standard is not bad, but Pure Direct wins again.
I send the two channel outputs to the sub as well and used its control to tune the crossover. I have a BDP-95 in this system and its analog outputs sound better than HDMI for 2 channel LPCM. I call em as I hear em.

For the record, "Pure Direct" and "Direct" do not sound the same on the Marantz AV8801. Direct is brighter.I know Gene thinks I am crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Marantz followed the Onkyo lead to make the processor a bit brighter when not in Pure Direct mode. This accounts for a great many veils being lifted.

The default Audyssey calibration also boosts the surrounds by 3DB which miraculously produces a much better enveloping surround sound.

Call me a cynic, but I do not think these are accidents.

- Rich

Yeah, I don't care so much for room correction as long as I can have Dynamic EQ.

Boosting surround speakers for more effects, huh?

Sounds like adding 2 extra surround speakers (7.1 vs. 5.1) and 4 extra width/height speakers (11.1) for more "effects", except MUCH CHEAPER.

 

[3db]

Yeah, I don't care so much for room correction as long as I can have Dynamic EQ.

Boosting surround speakers for more effects, huh?

Sounds like adding 2 extra surround speakers (7.1 vs. 5.1) and 4 extra width/height speakers (11.1) for more "effects", except MUCH CHEAPER.

If you refer to Dynamic EQ has the ability to vary its loudness, then yes, it has that. My old RX-V1800 has it as well but Yamaha calls its own thing. If this is not what Dynamci EQ is, then just forget I posted this.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you refer to Dynamic EQ has the ability to vary its loudness, then yes, it has that. My old RX-V1800 has it as well but Yamaha calls its own thing. If this is not what Dynamci EQ is, then just forget I posted this.

Dynamic EQ is more like dual Sub EQ.

That's the only difference that I can tell. The bass from subs just "come alive" with Dynamic EQ.

I bypass Audyssey for my L/R speakers and just use Dynamic EQ.

 

[ichigo]

That's a good idea.

A lot of people truly believe that pre-pros sound better than AVRs just because the pre-pros are "separates".

And most people who spend that kind of money probably want separates anyway. Just because.

So it's a great idea to take a "Z12" and separate it into an amp + a pre-pro.

I think it's also because Yamaha doesn't have the same reputation at the high end as Denon. Equivalent Denons (the 5805 and 5308) held their value much longer, Yamaha was basically fire sale-ing the RX-Z11 by 2008, $1300 for 5 year Warranty was the average retail price before they were phased out by the RX-A3000. That's a far cry from the $5k they were hoping to get.

 

[bwillcox]

Where did you see the RX-Z11s for only $1300. And since they didn't hit the streets till Dec of 2007 I think you may be off on the year as well. I bought my 2nd Z11 in Dec of 2009 when I was first able to get it at the discount price (I paid $2000) (Also, I don't think the RX-A3000 was released till sometime in 2010). My recollection was that they were mostly sold on fire sale (by reuptable places for in the $2000 range, with newegg.com having Saturday only sales for $1800 for a few months.

Also, the economy had more to do with the price drop and fire-sale than anything. 2008 turned out to be a very bad year to introduce high-end AVRs in the $5000+ price range. Yamaha wasn't the only company affected. For example, Pioneer's $7000 offering suffered a similar fate.

As for Denon's reputation...well I guess that greatly depends on one's personal experiences. I've owned a number of Denon products over the years and they've all had problems. The worst was the $5000 DVD player that never did work right, even after a long stay in the shop getting a number of critical parts replaced (a common failure with them as I recall). I finally sold it for a small fraction of what I paid for it on ebay. I make it a point to avoid Denon these days. Reduces my anxiety level.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I love Denon. As long as they are not refurbished.

I also love the aesthetic of my Denon.

Yamaha & Pioneer should implement Audyssey (specifically Dynamic EQ/ dual Sub EQ). Without DEQ, there is no competition IMO.

Onkyo needs to clean up their reliability and customer service act.

 

[psbfan9]

I love Denon. As long as they are not refurbished.

I also love the aesthetic of my Denon.

Yamaha & Pioneer should implement Audyssey (specifically Dynamic EQ/ dual Sub EQ). Without DEQ, there is no competition IMO.

Onkyo needs to clean up their reliability and customer service act.

I agree with this.

I liked my Onkyo 608. It had Audyssey which I liked better than Yamaha's YPAO. Other than that, I like my Yamaha A830 better than the Onkyo.

 

[ichigo]

Where did you see the RX-Z11s for only $1300. And since they didn't hit the streets till Dec of 2007 I think you may be off on the year as well. I bought my 2nd Z11 in Dec of 2009 when I was first able to get it at the discount price (I paid $2000) (Also, I don't think the RX-A3000 was released till sometime in 2010). My recollection was that they were mostly sold on fire sale (by reuptable places for in the $2000 range, with newegg.com having Saturday only sales for $1800 for a few months.

Also, the economy had more to do with the price drop and fire-sale than anything. 2008 turned out to be a very bad year to introduce high-end AVRs in the $5000+ price range. Yamaha wasn't the only company affected. For example, Pioneer's $7000 offering suffered a similar fate.

As for Denon's reputation...well I guess that greatly depends on one's personal experiences. I've owned a number of Denon products over the years and they've all had problems. The worst was the $5000 DVD player that never did work right, even after a long stay in the shop getting a number of critical parts replaced (a common failure with them as I recall). I finally sold it for a small fraction of what I paid for it on ebay. I make it a point to avoid Denon these days. Reduces my anxiety level.

They were available at Fry's Electronics for $1300 the last few months that they were still in production. And you are right, the 3000 didn't come out until 2010, so I'm referring to the 2009 period.

 

[randyb]

IMO, people who bought the z11 for 1300 got a bargain. You could do a lot of manual eq on that unit. Use the savings and hire Jeff Meier of accucal and I can just about guarantee you will have a better result that audyssey even x32.

 

[bwillcox]

They were available at Fry's Electronics for $1300 the last few months that they were still in production. And you are right, the 3000 didn't come out until 2010, so I'm referring to the 2009 period.

Well, I don't know what Fry's may have been selling them for in all of their stores, but I never saw the Z11 for $1300 in the Austin, TX store. As for 2009, it wasn't till Dec of 2009 that their price was dropped. Also, as far as I was told by my dealers Yamaha rep, they hadn't been in 'production' for some time. These were units in the warehouse that were unsold. Folks just weren't buying $5000+ AVRs in the down economy. Indeed, they may never again. The rep specifically said that any new receiver that they came out with (this was in Jan of 2010, would be in the $3000 range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

SV/HTM just reviewed the duo. Pre-pro measures very impressively. I think Crosstalk is -94dB and SNR is -121dB. High-end measurements for sure. Too bad Yamaha won't just get on board with Audyssey XT32 dual Sub EQ & DEQ.

 

[PENG]

SV/HTM just reviewed the duo. Pre-pro measures very impressively. I think Crosstalk is -94dB and SNR is -121dB. High-end measurements for sure. Too bad Yamaha won't just get on board with Audyssey XT32 dual Sub EQ & DEQ.

If and when they do, their flag ship AVR will replace my AV8801 for sure. I love the 8801 but its too much money for just a prepro.