Emotiva Customer Service is Horrible!

[surveyor]

Outlaw amps are not sold in brick and mortar stores- I believe ATI are, correct? That alone amounts to approximately 30 to 40% mark up for the ATI amps. I see no proof yet! ATI amps are not any better that their Outlaw near clones! Oh- unless you ask the dealer that sales them?

 

[fuzz092888]

Outlaw amps are not sold in brick and mortar stores- I believe ATI are, correct? That alone amounts to approximately 30 to 40% mark up for the ATI amps. I see no proof yet! ATI amps are not any better that their Outlaw near clones! Oh- unless you ask the dealer that sales them?

Already addressed that. Reread my post if you need to. In any case, not worth dealing with Outlaw when you can deal with ATI directly.

 

[surveyor]

Already addressed that. Reread my post if you need to. In any case, not worth dealing with Outlaw when you can deal with ATI directly.

I will leave this to your opinion- which is respected! However, I see nothing in the form of proof- in any way!

 

[fuzz092888]

I will leave this to your opinion- which is respected! However, I see nothing in the form of proof- in any way!

Other than e-mails sent out by ATI reps saying that they differ somewhat in internal parts. I've never been a recipient of such an e-mail since I've never asked but enough people have said so, including another member of this forum.

I knew I was forgetting another reason, glad I remembered. So in conclusion, I would rather buy a B-stock ATI from CAP and get full ATI support rather than deal with Outlaw.

 

[surveyor]

Other than e-mails sent out by ATI reps saying that they differ somewhat in internal parts. I've never been a recipient of such an e-mail since I've never asked but enough people have said so, including another member of this forum.

I knew I was forgetting another reason, glad I remembered. So in conclusion, I would rather buy a B-stock ATI from CAP and get full ATI support rather than deal with Outlaw.

That's good enough- I'm not knocking your opinion!

 

[fuzz092888]

That's good enough- I'm not knocking your opinion!

Well that part isn't opinion since it is straight from ATI, but in either case I din't think you were. I just knew there was a good reason, but I couldn't put my finger on it. A product of too much readily available information I suppose.

Another thing I'll add is that one member had trouble with his out of warranty Outlaw amplifier and IIRC had better luck dealing with ATI directly rather than Outlaw. So for nearly similar money when buying "B-stock" you get the real deal ATI amp and 2 more years of warranty compared to buying Outlaw. That's reason enough for me to stay far away from them, although it doesn't look like I'll be in the amp market for quite some time (hopefully anyways).

 

[RichB]

I will leave this to your opinion- which is respected! However, I see nothing in the form of proof- in any way!

Other than e-mails sent out by ATI reps saying that they differ somewhat in internal parts. I've never been a recipient of such an e-mail since I've never asked but enough people have said so, including another member of this forum.

I knew I was forgetting another reason, glad I remembered. So in conclusion, I would rather buy a B-stock ATI from CAP and get full ATI support rather than deal with Outlaw.

Well that part isn't opinion since it is straight from ATI, but in either case I din't think you were. I just knew there was a good reason, but I couldn't put my finger on it. A product of too much readily available information I suppose.

Another thing I'll add is that one member had trouble with his out of warranty Outlaw amplifier and IIRC had better luck dealing with ATI directly rather than Outlaw. So for nearly similar money when buying "B-stock" you get the real deal ATI amp and 2 more years of warranty compared to buying Outlaw. That's reason enough for me to stay far away from them, although it doesn't look like I'll be in the amp market for quite some time (hopefully anyways).

I received an email from ATI when comparing the ATI3000 series and Outlaw 7900.
Two obvious differences are the number of output devices 12 ATI and 24 7900.
My current Parasound Amp uses 8 per channels. I believe that ATI is in a spec war with Emo thus the large number of lower SOA devices.
ATI uses less higher Safe Operating Area devices. The 7900 auto detects XLR/Single ended and the ATI3000 has a switch.
This results in a higher input impedance for the ATI.

I recently had a used Outlaw 7500 repaired through Outlaw but performed by ATI.
So in the end, ATI will be repairing the amp.

ATI's email indicated that they build them according to spec.
Were I buying again, I would follow Fuzz advice and buy directly from CAP.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ATI amps are not any better that their Outlaw near clones!

None of the ATI clones (ML, Lexicon, JBL, Outlaw, B&K, Theta, Cary, etc.) should sound any differently than the ATI amps, although they will differ slightly internally and differ significantly externally.

 

[Stereojeff]

RichB:

ATI is not in a spec war with anyone. We design using the best value/highest performance components available that satisfy our design goals. Component pricing and availability are fluid. So are we.

Jeff

 

[RichB]

RichB:

ATI is not in a spec war with anyone. We design using the best value/highest performance components available that satisfy our design goals. Component pricing and availability are fluid. So are we.

Jeff

Sorry, I meant Outlaw not ATI.

- Rich

 

[ImcLoud]

RichB:

ATI is not in a spec war with anyone. We design using the best value/highest performance components available that satisfy our design goals. Component pricing and availability are fluid. So are we.

Jeff

Jeff do you work for ATI?

 

[Stereojeff]

Jeff do you work for ATI?

I do. I am Sr. Vice President of Amplifier Technologies.


Jeff

 

[ImcLoud]

nice.

So Jeff not to completely change the subject, but I always wondered why a company like ATI wouldn't throw together an inexpensive brand to blow Emotiva out of the water? Even some multi channel class D stuff like 200x5, Emos prices are getting higher and higher and they are going to stop their sales {supposingly} after this year, it seems like a good time for a new company to come in with a good product for a little less and even everything out....

I have listened to many amps and do not have good enough an ear to distinguish the difference between a $4000 200w per ch amp and a $900 200w per ch amp, so I obviously buy the $900 unit, I know a lot of guys say they can hear the difference but I am not lucky enough to see any difference beyond the price.... Anyway I thought class d was inexpensive to produce why has no company jumped on that yet for home audio?

 

[RichB]

I think a class-G like the Outlaw M2200 would be a nice addition.

Although, I like the features of the Signature series.

- Rich

 

[herbu]

Emos prices are getting higher and higher and they are going to stop their sales {supposingly} after this year

Really? Uh Oh. I wonder what that would mean for future customer service. Nothing good, I imagine.

 

[wilejoe]

nice.

So Jeff not to completely change the subject, but I always wondered why a company like ATI wouldn't throw together an inexpensive brand to blow Emotiva out of the water? Even some multi channel class D stuff like 200x5, Emos prices are getting higher and higher and they are going to stop their sales {supposingly} after this year, it seems like a good time for a new company to come in with a good product for a little less and even everything out....

I have listened to many amps and do not have good enough an ear to distinguish the difference between a $4000 200w per ch amp and a $900 200w per ch amp, so I obviously buy the $900 unit, I know a lot of guys say they can hear the difference but I am not lucky enough to see any difference beyond the price.... Anyway I thought class d was inexpensive to produce why has no company jumped on that yet for home audio?

I agree would love to buy a nice American made amp in the not so distant future, mine would be a simple stereo amp prob. a little over a 100W
I was looking at Class D Audio amps but ATI seems to get great reviews

 

[wilejoe]

Back in 2007 when this happened to a few of us, we didn't feel so free to rail on them here. They were a sponsor, and none of us had been here that long. I did mention it, but not nearly as harshly as I felt. I took a different approach and left the forum for six months. I associate the two, and I was too upset to hang out here after my experiences with Lonnie and the others. Later, I figured that I'm not going to let them ruin my fun here, too, and came back.

I did tell a lot of people to never buy from them, but it was irrelevant - none of the people that I know off of this forum would buy an amp, anyway.

Glad you came back

 

[gene]

nice.

So Jeff not to completely change the subject, but I always wondered why a company like ATI wouldn't throw together an inexpensive brand to blow Emotiva out of the water? Even some multi channel class D stuff like 200x5, Emos prices are getting higher and higher and they are going to stop their sales {supposingly} after this year, it seems like a good time for a new company to come in with a good product for a little less and even everything out....

I have listened to many amps and do not have good enough an ear to distinguish the difference between a $4000 200w per ch amp and a $900 200w per ch amp, so I obviously buy the $900 unit, I know a lot of guys say they can hear the difference but I am not lucky enough to see any difference beyond the price.... Anyway I thought class d was inexpensive to produce why has no company jumped on that yet for home audio?

You can't produce an amp in the USA and compete with Emotiva prices. Also most Class D amps are still lacking in performance when compared to the best linear designs.

 

[VanPT]

I know this thread has been hijacked a bit and I'm totally ok with that... but I just thought I'd give an update as to what has transpired in the last few days:

The customer service department called me first thing yesterday morning and explained that my unit was ready. He apologized and corrected himself from the previous conversation we had had on Thursday/Friday saying that the techs actually had looked at my unit but did not make any notes. He also said that it was ready to ship and wanted to know where I wanted it shipped to. Now, it may sound a bit convenient that it was suddenly fixed but considering the time he called me at I have a hard time not believing him. Either way, he was very apologetic and concerned (which is all I was asking for) about the confusion and wanted to make it right.

Originally he told me I would have to pay for shipping back to Canada but not Point Roberts, WA just over the border. I would have insisted on getting it sent to my house here but was not sure about border issues at Canada Post etc. Well I didn't need to be as he called back today and insisted they pay for shipping back to my house and advised there would be no issues with customs (listed as repair unit, etc).

So, as some had predicted Emo has bounced back and made sure everything is taken care of. I stand by my previous statement that it should not have come to these measures to get this service but they could have dismissed it and not done anything. They didn't, and it takes character to admit a mistake and apologize, both which they have done.

In terms of the unit itself, it turns out it was the headphone jack on the front of the unit. It appears it was sending a signal or the unit thought the headphones were plugged in, hence no sound out of the speakers. Not sure why it corrected it self after 10 mins but I'm no techy so who knows.

Thanks for everyone's input, concern and help here. Again, glad that Emo has rebounded from the many errors and hopefully my experiences with any future customer service issues, should there be any, goes smoother.

 

[psbfan9]

VanPT, glad everything worked out. You're 100% correct that it should not have come to this. I wonder if someone from Emo was watching this thread.