Zumbo: A proposition for you

[zumbo]

Called the dealer posted in this thread by another member for permission to post a link to their site.

No problem.

Then I get a call a day or two later from the owner, wanting to know what's-up.

After a good while of talking, we had figured each other out. Dealer was worried I was sending people to audition products I was selling.

I AM NOT SELLING PRODUCT.

What I would like to post is that he is not a B&W dealer. He owns B&W products so customers can compare the QLS side-by-side with B&W, in his showrooms. He states the MB Quart are better. Period. They are so much better, he purchased B&W to have on the showroom to prove it. Pretty cool story, I think.

The dealer I purchased mine from is a NHT dealer, and a PSB dealer. They state there is no comparison. Just as I stated about my car audio days, if a customer walks in looking for speakers, they leave with Quart.

I would like members to notice I did not post the information that led me to contact the dealer. These are just actual occurrences that I felt I should share.

Just wanted to chime in as another who has actually heard the Quarts. My local dealer apparently picked up a bunch of the old QLS line of bookshelf and floorstanders from a warehouse; the previous owner of the stock could not sell them. I listened much more to the bookshelf version, as this was the size I was in the market for. I listened to them against a similarly priced NHT model (3 way design, don't remember the model) and an older B&W nautilus model priced in the $2k range when it sold new. To my tastes, I enjoyed the Quarts the least out of the 3. Their strong point was the midrange, and also had well detailed highs. The bass quite lacking to my ears though. Overall, I found their sound very thin and not to my liking. The NHT was more neutral and liquid overall. The B&W was my favorite of the 3 (would hope so at its price), and as such I auditioned the 685's and found them also to my liking. I imagine someone with different musical tastes liking the Quarts very much, but they just weren't for me.

The quoted post is what started the series of events. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the above quoted review is of bookshelf speakers. I believe the negative review is actually positive, and ideal for a bookshelf.

 

[zumbo]

By the way, the B&W dealer is just down the road from the Quart dealer.

B&W dealer has never been happy with the Quart dealer having B&W on the floor.

Heck, the B&W dealer could do the same thing, and it would cost him a whole lot less money than it did the Quart dealer to do so.

 

[zumbo]

I did give the Quart dealer the tip to put some more juice on the 4ohm Quarts to equal the playing field, and he was very thankful for the tip.

But he defended there is no comparison, even with equal power.

 

[jostenmeat]

The dealer I purchased mine from is a NHT dealer, and a PSB dealer. They state there is no comparison. Just as I stated about my car audio days, if a customer walks in looking for speakers, they leave with Quart.

Really, they say no comparison for any PSB across the board? Wow. I am not saying they are wrong, I just want to know if PSB's best cannot compare with Quart, or if maybe they're thinking of the computer speaker sized Alpha LR1.

This is the AH measurement for the Imagine T (and mind you both the Synchronies and Platinums should be superior, well I'd hope so as they cost thousands more yet).

This speaker is the bookshelf version, 1k/pr, waterfall at 50" by Stereophile.

 

[zumbo]

Really, they say no comparison for any PSB across the board? Wow. I am not saying they are wrong, I just want to know if PSB's best cannot compare with Quart, or if maybe they're thinking of the computer speaker sized Alpha LR1.

Don't remember the model. It was in '03. It was a MTM 2.5 way tower of eqaul comparison/class.

I do remember the price was higher for the PSB, so telling me what they did didn't benefit them.

I have also found many threads in a Google search where people have compared the two in stores.

 

[zumbo]

This is the AH measurement for the Imagine T

From what I see, the Quart graph is better.

The Quarts are 1k pair.

How much are those Image T's.

 

[zumbo]

I just noticed the spike on the PSB was after 20k.

Pretty sweet.

But how much are they?

EDIT
Found it. 2k a pair. Twice as much.

That is a sweet graph though.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/psb-imagine-t

 

[jostenmeat]

Don't remember the model. It was in '03. It was a MTM 2.5 way tower of eqaul comparison/class.

I do remember the price was higher for the PSB, so telling me what they did didn't benefit them.

I have also found many threads in a Google search where people have compared the two in stores.

There is a big difference between saying "my Quarts are better than B&W 683's because he said so", and "my Quarts are better than B&W, period, because he said so". There was no qualifier the first time, and the second time we still only have a guess as to what the speaker could be, as PSB made plenty of mid-level 2.5ways that could be had anywhere from $500-2000, and there are probably more I'm not aware of.

From what I see, the Quart graph is better.

The Quarts are 1k pair.

How much are those Image T's.

2k. I believe it was a combination of nearfield and gated, but I don't recall seeing anything said about smoothing either.

But I don't see why the Quart has a better graph (not that we can compare these graphs anyways). Would the spike starting at 7k make for a sibilant speaker?

 

[zumbo]

There is a big difference between saying "my Quarts are better than B&W 683's because he said so", and "my Quarts are better than B&W, period, because he said so". There was no qualifier the first time, and the second time we still only have a guess as to what the speaker could be, as PSB made plenty of mid-level 2.5ways that could be had anywhere from $500-2000, and there are probably more I'm not aware of.

In '03, the dealer said what they said about PSB. They made less money on me.

The current dealer told me 800 series is what he has in store. 805S is the model that was compared to the 530 for the member who posted in this thread. You can buy three pair of 530(EDIT: four pair would be $2400) for the price of one pair of 805S.(discontinued price)

Please be aware that I am stating what I was told, and that is clearly defined.

I do have a friend with 683, and they don't even come close to my 830. It makes him sick.

But I don't see why the Quart has a better graph (not that we can compare these graphs anyways). Would the spike starting at 7k make for a sibilant speaker?

I noticed late that the spike was after 20k. It's a nice graph, but double the cost. And, smaller drivers.

 

[zumbo]

There is no hiss, or lisp.

Cymbal crashes simply sound like cymbal crashes.

Hi-hats simply sound like hi-hats.

I don't know what a real drum set cymbal crashing looks like on a graph, but I have a strong feeling it isn't flat.

 

[GranteedEV]

I don't know what a real drum set cymbal crashing looks like on a graph, but I have a strong feeling it isn't flat.

Wait, what?

Think of a shape like a

U

Now imagine a speaker that takes that first line out... "a curved response", similar to a speaker with no bass That speaker gives you a

J

And the J might sound exactly like parts of the U, but like the whole U.

Now think of a bose speaker trying to make that U

L_K

They didn't even try, but some people think it sounds cool when they hear the demo 2 feet away with jurrassic park sounds that are loud

Some speakers get closer though

|J

and closer

(_)

But you just want a speaker that does this, right?

U

That has nothing to do with whether the original U was flat. It just means you're not taking away or adding anything to the original U. It's the ideal speaker only assuming an ideal recording of the letter U. Boy, this feels like sesame street.

Obviously sound is more complex than the letter U, but it's still measured by a mic in a way that can be represented by electrical signals. The two toughest parts are going to be a mic that can represent what was going on and a speaker that can represent what the mic was recording. The rest is all stuff you'd learn in a second year undergrad EE course or something (boooooooringgggg )

I think what's happening here is a difference between power response (which is what we have of very few speakers but should really have of most as it's a huge indicator of what we hear) and on-axis response (which is basically all we really have of most speakers including the quarts) is being mitigated. There's so much to sound than just a waterfall and a frequency response, although that basically isolates the really bad and the "good enough to bother with", it doesn't mean measurements are getting something wrong. There just isn't enough of them.

 

[zumbo]

I have been hearing a drum set longer than I have been hearing hi-fi.

Until I heard my first set of Quarts @16, I had never heard a cymbal sound like a cymbal through a stereo. Ever.

It just never sounded real.

As I have said over the years here, B&W 800 series is as close as I had come to finding what I considered to be the best I had heard in a home system. This includes all of them, all the way to the 805S.

I just don't have that kind of money.

I say this over and over, not to voice an opinion. But, to give a description of what I think sounds real.

MB Quart QLS has that sound. For a very small fraction of the price.

As far as graphs, there has been a certain brand mentioned in other threads that seem to have a superb graph. Those speakers do not sound good to me. AT ALL. This says to me that a graph is just not the end all.

I did not mention the brand, because I don't wish to get back into a battle of what I think sounds good.

All of this is just to try to inform all of you of what these speakers sound like.

There is no benefit to me.

It's just a passion that can't be explained by a graph, or words.

 

[GranteedEV]

As far as graphs, there has been a certain brand mentioned in other threads that seem to have a superb graph. Those speakers do not sound good to me. AT ALL. This says to me that a graph is just not the end all.

...You do realize we're talking about $600 speakers that retail for like, $300/pr right?

That speaker is excellent relative to their price point The idea that it's the definition of a speaker with a good graph is beyond ridiculous. It does some things well that most speakers don't.

You don't see it on anyone here's list of "speakers that define accurate sound reproduction". Just that they are doing some things fundamentally correct. Far from everything. In fact some aspects of their "graphs" are cringe-inducing.

They're a good speaker for what you pay but there's speakers that measure far better, including by the same brand (Harman). What are your thoughts on a Revel Ultima Salon 2

It's just a passion that can't be explained by a graph, or words.

The problem brings us right back to the idea that one frequency graph doesn't begin to tell us the whole story, never, ever, because the story has more angles than that. Your words have said a lot - of course not everything. For example, they tell us that the MB Quarts sound good to a drummer given his choice of recordings in his choice of room. Some graphs said some things, but not everything.

 

[zumbo]

...You do realize we're talking about $600 speakers that retail for like, $300/pr right?

That speaker is excellent relative to their price point The idea that it's the definition of a speaker with a good graph is beyond ridiculous. It does some things well that most speakers don't.

You don't see it on anyone here's list of "speakers that define accurate sound reproduction". Just that they are doing some things fundamentally correct. Far from everything. In fact some aspects of their "graphs" are cringe-inducing.

They're a good speaker for what you pay but there's speakers that measure far better, including by the same brand (Harman).

Fair enough. But as I mentioned, I am just trying to describe sound without a graph. I wouldn't own them, or buy them. The tweeter kills it for me.

What are your thoughts on a Revel Ultima Salon 2

I have not heard them. I can guarantee the performance doesn't justify the price. We can all throw prestigious products out there. I am certain 95% of the members here don't have that kind of money.

Also, just throwing a parent company name out there has no merit to me. Ford was the parent company of Aston Martin. That doesn't make a Ford Escort da bomb.

The problem brings us right back to the idea that one frequency graph doesn't begin to tell us the whole story, never, ever, because the story has more angles than that. Your words have said a lot - of course not everything. For example, they tell us that the MB Quarts sound good to a drummer given his choice of recordings in his choice of room. Some graphs said some things, but not everything.

So far, any room. Or car. Or sound room. For 23 years.

As a drummer, there are usually other instruments involved. Again, it's all an attempt to describe the sound quality of the speaker.

1k was a lot for me to pay for each pair of my 830's in my HT. I couldn't justify paying any more for a set of speakers. Luckily, for me, I was able to build my HT before we had our daughter.

 

[zumbo]

Not any recording.

Bad recordings really sound bad. The speakers bring-out all the details of the bad recording.

 

[GranteedEV]

As a drummer, there are usually other instruments involved. Again, it's all an attempt to describe the sound quality of the speaker.

I think very experienced listeners are important in helping make that exact correlation between "the graphs" and "the sound". I do respect the opinions of old people like yourself, KEW, and TLS Guy because you guys are old I mean experienced

Fair enough. But as I mentioned, I am just trying to describe sound without a graph. I wouldn't own them, or buy them. The tweeter kills it for me.

I couldn't see myself buying it either, but I think we still both agree that there's an evident price gap between that speaker and even these MB quarts. Whether the tripling-of-price is worth it, I would leave to a person to decide for themselves. I would personally stick with my lame little soft dome tweeter on my emp teks

I can guarantee the performance doesn't justify the price[/B]. We can all throw prestigious products out there. I am certain 95% of the members here don't have that kind of money.

I would agree with that. It was more a question of "Do the best measurements truly fail to give the desired end results to your ears?" - because that's a product that measures well in many, many (still not all ) facets unlike the cheap product being discussed earlier which measures well in some. I'm just curious if you've heard it, not if you would buy it