Yamaha RX-Z9 First Look

Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
Ricky,

Never mentioned that Yamaha speakers are famous in Japan although I did find NS-2000 traded at high prices in Akhiabara last time I visited there and I also come across web sites from Japanese audio enthusiasts with their high end Yamaha NS-1000x/2000 or even the 10000 with the rare MX-10000 amps, the NS-200/300 got great reviews in UK, Germany as well as Australia and were never imported in US.

Your being a Japanese national working for Pioneer will obviously reflect in your bias against Yamaha and that is perfectly understandable.
 
S

stick312

Audiophyte
KrazyKaj

Sorry to hear about your problems, My understanding is a bit different(from what I've read on yamahas pages. Basically Upconversion only works on non copyrighted materials... You stated that you saw it work breifly? 1080i 720p?? I can switch my upconversion around but I can't really validate that it's working properly. I can tell you that 720p with my monitor messed up the display entirely(most likely do to the fact that it's an older Pioneer HD Monitor)

I'm not familiar with the 2200 but the denon 5900 and the pioneer 59avi do the upconversion for you ... then pass that data thru however upconversion on copyrighted materials can ONLY happen via HDMI/DVI inputs/outputs.

The Upconversion appears to work for my primary Digital Sat stations. I'm not sure about the HD stations (I am currently using the hughes High def sat reciever) the HD ones are obviously MUCH clearer than the digital.

I guess that's a long way of saying, are you sure upconversion works via I'm assuming non-ilink connections with the rx-z9?
 
K

Krazykaj

Junior Audioholic
My apologies, it worker briefly on 576p as it rightly should :eek:

I understand completely that the Z9 won't up convert any copyrighted video signal to 720p or 1080i.
It up converts (de-interlaces) copyrighted signal to only 480p/576p, For DVD's this is will work via the component output/input

I was saying that at one point in time (about a month ago now) I was told by Yamaha that If I put ANY DVD into ANY DVD player (copyrighted or not) passed it though component in’s/out’s on the Z9, the Z9 would de-interlace and scale the image to 720p if I had it selected.

This of course is wrong, it will only scale non copyrighted material (of which there are very few DVD's like that) I have about 4 non-copyrighted DVD's at home and the Z9 will put them out at 720p, all others will only do at 560p, 480p, but of course it's the doggiest image you've seen so I don't use it.

So not only did we get Bad support, we got, as you pointed out yourself, WRONG support (I wasn't as clear on this then, but I still assured them that that's not how the de-interlacing and scaling works, but I was assured by the guy on the other end of the phone that it is the case and that's why it's our TV) as I said, it's pathetic support we are getting.

And as to the 2200, it is the little brother of the 2900 and uses the Silicon Image chip to de interlace only video, this is how I know what to expect and I have something to compare against.

Thanks for the reply
I hope your bass is sounding ok.
 
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E

ekb

Guest
The review shows that the low pass filter slope on the Xover is 12dB/oct. Can this be true? Isn't this too shallow for the LPF? And doesn't THX require a 24dB/oct filter?

Ed
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ekb;

Good find. I messed up the Checklist table when I uploaded it. It should be all set now. The LPF is 24dB/Oct as per THX spec. Thanks for pointing it out!
 
D

Denon Lover

Guest
Home and Volume Bank Memory

Do you guys Know that the Z9 Retains this feature found on the V1 and Z1? Home Bank and Volume Bank which allows you to recall up to 6 sound settings.
Can I access these features through the Z9 remote.Or do I need to Purchase a Rav2000 or Pronto Remote to access these features.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Yes the Z9 does have a receiver editor feature with homebanks to store basic settings. This is why I didn't totally rail it on 1 independent global channel trim setting since it has that workaround.
 
D

Denon Lover

Guest
Home and Volume Bank Memory

Wow Gene you are fast!! Thank you .

How can I access these features with the Z9 Remote?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
How can I access these features with the Z9 Remote?
Yamaha didn't provide me with much info on the receiver editor feature and it wasn't really discussed in the user manual. I think they reserve it more for the custom installer than the average Joe. When I write my review addendum, I will ping them on how to do this and try to add it in there.
 
K

Krazykaj

Junior Audioholic
Letter to Yamaha

Again, if you're interested (or have been following the AVS thread), here is the email we sent to a number of people, including Yamaha. (it's been edited slightly for privacy reasons)

please let me know if it's any good.



(EDIT)
For a start, we are really frustrated with the seeming Yamaha’s lack of timely response and not even keeping us informed.



Therefore, a day or so ago, my son (ME, krazykaj) has begun to make enquiries within those in the industry, on the internet, about our problems and experience with Yamaha. While we deeply regret having to do this, but we feel we have been more than generous far too long. Without Yamaha keeping us informed, we feel forced to gather our own information and, more importantly, to create for us a sense of some action.

The responses so far may be of interest to you. The responses should be of a very serious interest to Yamaha’s most senior management in Australia and overseas, especially with the kind of attention my son’s enquiries have generated in barely a day and a half, including on influential web sites.

Even *if* the cause of our Z9 problem is *wholly* from the user end (which we do not agree), Yamaha should be helping *you* to resolve it for us. We all know that a faulty item will turn up now and then. This is not our major complaint – though receiving three faulty units in a row is one of our major concerns as well.

Our major concern now is the after-sale service, which for the Z9 is promoted that it will be top class, with which we are astonished. Almost three months later, three Z9 units later, with a lot of wasted time and extra expense to us, we are still no closer to a satisfactory resolution on our problem. The situation is now well beyond “just return the Z9” and giving us our money back.

The forums where we have asked about Z9 were:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com
http://www.avsforum.com/
http://www.audioholics.com/forums/
http://forums.audioreview.com/
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com


In America, (edit) bob president of bob (Edit) wrote to my son the following:


I spoke in person to a top exec at Yamaha today on your behalf and also pointed him to your thread on my forums. Let’s see what happens. . . .



Best Regards;

bob
HAA Level 1 Certified
President of bob.com



Another respondent from Australia mentioned that we should approach Dept. of Fair Trading regarding numerous issues. We do *not* yet want to go this way, at least not until after we alerted both you and Yamaha, and gave you all one more decent opportunity to get this really right.

Here is a further sample of the dozens of replies Karl received just in a day and a half:

“Thanks for the alert about this model. With your info, many members will stay away from this model until Yamaha gets its act together.”

“Hey, when you put that kind of cash down for a product( actually for any product they sell), Yamaha should find a way to make you happy! . . . “

“Well that sounds awful. I would flip out, and most likely would take it back and not buy another Yamaha product. I take offence to that type of service. . . .”

“spending the kind of monies that ppl spend on a car, and getting $hit like this is simply unacceptable . . .”

“I would not only email the head Yammy guy in Australia your message I'd include all link to all of your threads in all of the forums you've posted this in and tell him these forums are filled with people that are interested in hi-end audio equipment and if your issue isn't resolved swiftly and properly this will reflect very bad for Yamaha in these forum and will result in lost sales and customers. . . .”

“That's terrible! They've got such a great rep too. Have you tried "asking for the manager" at customer support? I'd act (and be) furious! . . .”

“But this is kind of strange as Yamaha is known to have at least better customer service than it's competitors. . . ."

“I wouldn't give a dime to them . . .”



Please, (edit), could you urge and escalate this issue as appropriate, and for Yamaha to really come to the party. Yamaha should use this as an opportunity to show how they can meet and *now* well exceed customer’s expectations. We are just as happy to report on quality support.





Yours Sincerely,



please tell me it's ok :confused:
 
W

warrent

Audiophyte
A Rather Annoying Video Setting Issue on RX-Z9

I just got my RX-Z9 yesterday, so for sure it could be that I just didn't read the manual well enough, but from my current use, I've found an annoying video problem. It seems there is only one universal video setting? If I for example choose 1080i, cinema mode, 16:9 zoom for like my VCR, this setting is universally applies to every video input I switch to, it does not remember individual settings for each video input. So if I wanted 480p, standard mode when playing my GameCube, I'd have to go in and change it from the previous setting. Each time I want a different setting I have to change it, there is no individual video setting memory per video input. Unlike audio, if I was on 9ch Stereo for TV, and THX Ultra 2 Cinema for DVD, it remembers those modes I was on each time I switch betweeen them. Very annoying. Please tell me I just have it wrong and that there is video setting memory.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
there is no individual video setting memory per video input.
Warrent; I believe you are correct and this is perhaps a defficiency in the Z9 I failed to point out. Most of the time I set the scaling to pass thru since I only used it for my composite video sources. This may be fixable in firmware and I will discuss this with Yamaha. Thanks for your inputs here.
 
W

W4ZOO

Audioholic Intern
warrent said:
I just got my RX-Z9 yesterday, so for sure it could be that I just didn't read the manual well enough, but from my current use, I've found an annoying video problem. It seems there is only one universal video setting? If I for example choose 1080i, cinema mode, 16:9 zoom for like my VCR, this setting is universally applies to every video input I switch to, it does not remember individual settings for each video input. So if I wanted 480p, standard mode when playing my GameCube, I'd have to go in and change it from the previous setting. Each time I want a different setting I have to change it, there is no individual video setting memory per video input. Unlike audio, if I was on 9ch Stereo for TV, and THX Ultra 2 Cinema for DVD, it remembers those modes I was on each time I switch betweeen them. Very annoying. Please tell me I just have it wrong and that there is video setting memory.
I leave mine in AUTO and have not looked back.

But !

This can be done with home presets. I takes a snapshot of the setup and can be recalled.

It also can be done via the comport. With the editing software.
There are also extensive remote discreat codes for the z9 at Remote Central.
 
O

O'Shag

Junior Audioholic
Z9 rocks

Krazykaj,

Steady on old boy.

I think that your tirade against Yamaha is a tad unreasonable, and you need to get over it because people may start to think your blowing smoke out you arse.

Yamaha did give you a replacement unit three times. if thats not the best effort to please what I believe to be an unreasonably dissatisfied customer then I don't know what is. Given the same set of circumstances, if I was in charge of Yamaha's customer service group (thank God for them I'm not), after providing the first replacement unit, then the second, and upon request for a third, I would have advised such a customer to go take a jump into the Mississippi.

If a Yamaha customer support or authorized dealer rep made a mistake, and told you it should do video at such and such a resolution - so the f$%k what. In the event that you the customer is not satisfied, the option is there for a full refund within a reasonable period of time.

Its impossible to be all things to all people, and impractical to demand absolute perfection in everything first go around, despite the fact that this product is unquestionably superior in most important aspects to it's competitors. Those considering the Z9, be heartened that this amazing unit is absolutely magic. You will be hard pressed to find anything close to as capable of so many things as this receiver. Just read the reviews thus far. I say bravo Yamaha for the outstanding effort to bring us the Z9, a new benchmark in receiver performance.
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
I really enjoy reading all the stuff about the z9 and I'm on the verge of getting one (tho I am concerned about what Krazykaj said). I have a few pretty
basic questions about the z9 (probably too basic for most of you all):

1. I'm assuming I can pre-out to my older Adcom GFA-555 (200 wpc) power
amp for my two front speakers and use the z9 amps for the other channels.
Any problems with this? Would the z9 amps be better?

2. Is the hot running temp of the z9 going to shorten the life of the z9's other
electronic components or are they well insulated from the amps?

3. Since I have built-in powered amps in my main speakers is the lack of sub
output in Direct mode a non-issue for me?

4. Is there a separate center channel delay control?

5. Is there a "phantom" or "none" center-channel mode so I can do w/o a
center channel for now?

6. Can THX re-equalization be defeated?

7. How's the manual? Is it easy for the non-specialist to understand? (David
Ranada says that resetting the YPAO EQ to completely neutral status is
cumbersome and not included in the manual).

8. What are the best kind of speakers for the presence channels?


Really appreciate your help. Tony
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Tony;

Great questions, let me try to address:



1. I'm assuming I can pre-out to my older Adcom GFA-555 (200 wpc) power
amp for my two front speakers and use the z9 amps for the other channels.
Any problems with this? Would the z9 amps be better?
Yes you can and great idea!

2. Is the hot running temp of the z9 going to shorten the life of the z9's other
electronic components or are they well insulated from the amps?
The Z9 does run very hot, but the heat is mostly on the top of the unit near the heat sinks of the amps. The large PS caps seemed to remain fairly cool so I don't think its as much of an issue with reliability as it is with heat transfer to the rest of your system. Make sure there is plenty of cooling space for this receiver is the bottom line. I do hope they resort back toa more conventional heat sink topology in their next design.



3. Since I have built-in powered amps in my main speakers is the lack of sub
output in Direct mode a non-issue for me?
Not really. I have a similiar speaker configuration as you. You can engage "Stereo 2CH" mode and still have sub out. If you have a Universal DVD player its a non issue since the Z9 will handle bass management and keep the sub on. IF you are using "Pure Direct" via ext inputs for DVD-A/SACD, check to see if your player has a bass combine feature to parallel the bass in 2CH mode to the Z9 sub input.

4. Is there a separate center channel delay control?
Yes, each channel has incremental delay adjustments of .1ft!

5. Is there a "phantom" or "none" center-channel mode so I can do w/o a
center channel for now?
Yes

6. Can THX re-equalization be defeated?
I believe only if you don't use THX Movie modes.

7. How's the manual? Is it easy for the non-specialist to understand? (David
Ranada says that resetting the YPAO EQ to completely neutral status is
cumbersome and not included in the manual).
Huh? All you have to do is go into the GUI -> Sound -> Graphic Equalizer -> then select no EQ. It gives you the option to select GEQ and PEQ as well. I don't like the way Yamaha did this, but they said it will be addressed in the next model.


8. What are the best kind of speakers for the presence channels?
I would look for medium sized bookshelf speakers with similar tonal characteristics to your other system speakers. They don't have to be exact, but they should have decent power handling and frequency response like the rest of your system.
 
O

O'Shag

Junior Audioholic
Unregistered said:
2. Is the hot running temp of the z9 going to shorten the life of the z9's other
electronic components or are they well insulated from the amps?

Really appreciate your help. Tony

Tony,

I have the Z9 and it does tend to run on the hot side. I have it placed in a cabinet that is less than ideal for heat dissipation. But the Yammie has its own fan cooling system and it seems to be effective. Every hour or so when I'm cranking up the music or playing a movie, I notice the built in fans will come on for about two minutes. I've touched around the unit several times before and after the automatic internal cooling procedure and noticed it does cool considerably.

On one of your other concerns, although the Z9 facilitates connection of outboard amplification, so far the built in amps have performed champion for my application. Like yourself I have the option to use outboard amplification to supplement the Yamahas internal amps, because I have two extra amps both capable of over 400 watts RMS into 4 ohms, but frankly there's been no reason to consider using an outboard amp. One of the speaker systems I'm driving is 4 ohms so that means the Yamaha is more than capable of driving slightly more difficult loads without any strain whatsoever.
Hope this helps
 
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K

Krazykaj

Junior Audioholic
O'Shag said:
Krazykaj,

Steady on old boy.

I think that your tirade against Yamaha is a tad unreasonable, and you need to get over it because people may start to think your blowing smoke out you arse.

Yamaha did give you a replacement unit three times. if thats not the best effort to please what I believe to be an unreasonably dissatisfied customer then I don't know what is. Given the same set of circumstances, if I was in charge of Yamaha's customer service group (thank God for them I'm not), after providing the first replacement unit, then the second, and upon request for a third, I would have advised such a customer to go take a jump into the Mississippi.

If a Yamaha customer support or authorized dealer rep made a mistake, and told you it should do video at such and such a resolution - so the f$%k what. In the event that you the customer is not satisfied, the option is there for a full refund within a reasonable period of time.

Its impossible to be all things to all people, and impractical to demand absolute perfection in everything first go around, despite the fact that this product is unquestionably superior in most important aspects to it's competitors. Those considering the Z9, be heartened that this amazing unit is absolutely magic. You will be hard pressed to find anything close to as capable of so many things as this receiver. Just read the reviews thus far. I say bravo Yamaha for the outstanding effort to bring us the Z9, a new benchmark in receiver performance.

Hi,

I appreciate the insight, it's hard to see what you're doing when your the one doing it. Maybe I’m a bit over-reacting :)

But. . . I really don't care about the miss-information like the resolutions etc. it was just on the top of my mind when I was posting, so please don't take that as my one and only problem, not at all, I think it's a bit worse than that. (Shimmering, cutting out, artefacts, colour bleeding etc.)
And sending out the three Z9's that is actually what makes me 'frustrated', 'annoyed’ even 'angry' and the reasoning behind it. As you pointed out, you'd tell the customer to go jump by then :p but again, that's the whole point, we report a dud unit or a problem with the experience we're having and they throw a new unit at us, that's it. The problem reoccurs in some way and a month later, they throw another unit at us, that's it, nothing really before and nothing after, and now they'll probably throw another at us, making it a (I whole heartedly agree) RIDICULES four units.
I DO NOT WANT NEW Unit’s all the time until a working one is found, believe me, it's the biggest pain in the Backside carting these things about and hooking them up!)
I want help, explanations and a satisfactory resolution, quickly and fairly quietly. It’s all so simple, and yet now, three months later, it's complicated and noisy and confusing and frustrating for all.

But I take your point they can't help and satisfy everyone all of the time, but that is no excuse.

Oh yeah, I didn't really ask for new units as you said ( if I did then I’d say the response was been great, as you said, three units is unusual), I wanted the problem fixed and at the end of the day a working unit (I had no idea how Yamaha would go about doing it, but that's all I wanted), that's all, they sent out the new units, each on saying it'll be our last, and we unfortunately believed them.


And to Unregistered, who's "on the verge of getting one" - get one, I’m having the problem, not you and it seems any problems up your part of the world are rare and quickly fixed. So in that case and on that footing, I can wholly recommend the Z9, it's a great machine, heavy, but great (especially sound wise, as that's its main function). And if you get a fully working Z9 that meets all your needs, as you should, all the best, I’ll be enviously thinking of you ;)
I only wish I could be as fortunate down here, or not so ignorant as to just be able to put my finger on the problem, kick myself in the backside for being so dumb, and there it is, fixed, no pleading, no arguing, no worries. :)

Oh well,

cheers
 
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