Yamaha RX-V3900 and 5.1 surround

[ee4hire]

I've had my RX-V3900 for about six weeks now and am very happy with the features, capabilities and sound quality when I listen to music. The FM tuner is excellent and I love being able to access my music server, internet radio and Sirius Internet all from one AVR. This replaced a Sony STR-DE845 which served me well for about 8 or 9 years. The lack of video switching beyond component video and limited digital audio inputs motivated me to finally upgrade. The ability to control and optimize so many features on the Yamaha make this so much nicer than the old unit. I particularly like the fact that the volume trim is available for _all_ sources, since I found huge differences in the levels, particularly the internal vs. external.

My speakers are all Polk Audio: RT800i fronts, CS400i center, f/x500i surround and PSW450 Sub. I used the YPAO using three listening positions. All settings look reasonable: front, center and surround were all detected as large with 40Hz crossover. I've been trying both flat and natural PEQ since they both provide the most rear content (surround at +2dB). I notice on the equalizer graphs there is a pretty good dip on both right and surround right, so I gather there is a minor resonance on that side of the room.

My problem is the overall surround sound for movies. I use Movie->Standard sound field, since it states "The program create a sound field emphasizing the surrounding feeling without disturbing the original acoustic position of multi-channel audio...". My problem is that I am not getting the surround feeling on movies or OTA HD Sports, two sources that I usually had this feeling with my Sony. I know my sources are providing 5.1 properly by the Yamaha front panel indicators, so it is not my sources.

I understand the surround is usually subtle, but with my Sony I often felt surrounded for 5.1 content. What I notice with my Yamaha is everything seems to come from the front. Walking to the surround speaker I can detect very little sound for most sources. The only thing that gives satisfactory surround are demo tracks that have exaggerated surround effects.

I've tried specific DVD's that have gentle rain that I remember always feeling surrounded by the rain, with the Yamaha it all seems up front.

I've tried increasing the Input Select->Movie->Standard->DSP Level to the maximum, can't really tell the difference. I've tried other sound fields and don't really hear much difference.

Is there a setting or setup I'm missing that I should change? I don't suspect room acoustics since speakers and room are the same, only the receiver has changed. Should I just crank up the surround speaker levels a few more dB?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Nomo]

Yamaha's proprietary sound fields always seemed a bit fake to me.
I generally use PLII music mode for most everything. the music setting gives a great deal of flexabilty in the way you can shape the soundfield, such as the abilty to control the strength of the center and surround speakers.
Another choice is to simply use straight or pure direct.

 

[ee4hire]

Yamaha's proprietary sound fields always seemed a bit fake to me.
I generally use PLII music mode for most everything. the music setting gives a great deal of flexabilty in the way you can shape the soundfield, such as the abilty to control the strength of the center and surround speakers.
Another choice is to simply use straight or pure direct.

The straight alone still is very front centric, so I must have been getting some enhancement for the surround from my Sony DSP.

Pure Direct seems to kill the picture (I only use component video), even though the Pure Direct setting is Audio and not Audio + Video, don't understand that.

I did a quick try of the music, but this of course means more of the front/center channel gets into the surrounds, which means dialogue. I may just need to learn more about customizing this and see how that does.

I get pretty good results on several DVDs by just cranking up the surround level (I've got 8dB to play with), but that may be overkill with other content.

As I get time, I'll spend more time with the music approach.

Thanks.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Just turn up the surrounds a DB at a time until you like how it sounds. Do you have a SPL meter?

I always used "Standard Surround" with my Yammy.

 

[DTS-HD MA]

Yamaha's proprietary sound fields always seemed a bit fake to me.
I generally use PLII music mode for most everything. the music setting gives a great deal of flexabilty in the way you can shape the soundfield, such as the abilty to control the strength of the center and surround speakers.
Another choice is to simply use straight or pure direct.

I believe that the sound fields on just about every receiver out there sound a bit cheesy no matter which one, however I find Yamaha's to do a little bit of more justice than most if there is such a thing. I find myself listening to music enhanced 7 most of the time when well.. listening to music..lol, but I know that we are all different in our tastes for various listening material. Just my personal humble opinion.

Cheers

 

[ee4hire]

Just turn up the surrounds a DB at a time until you like how it sounds. Do you have a SPL meter?

I always used "Standard Surround" with my Yammy.

Well, I'm up to plus +6 dB on the surrounds to get any sense of surround.

Yes, I do have the Radio Shack digital SPL. What do you suggest I check? I just confirmed with test tones that the surrounds are 6 dB higher than the fronts when I use straight, so it all seems right. I don't seem to detect much difference between straight and movie->standard.

I'll stay with the +6 and see how I do with various content. Maybe I'll work on a Harmony Remote sequence of commands to adjust this level easily without going to the GUI...

 

[Adam]

I'll say first that the only thing that matters is that you liked it, so set it how you want.

That said, I'll throw this in for your consideration. In the mid-90's, I had a stereo receiver along with a TV that had rear speaker jacks. So, the front speakers were run by the receiver, and the rear speakers were powered by the TV. With that set-up, my rear speakers were relatively loud compared to the fronts, and that's what I got used to. When I upgraded to a surround sound receiver, I noticed right away that there wasn't as much volume or content in the rear speakers. I was disappointed at first, but then I adjusted to it and came to realize that it was more like what was intended.

So, I'd say maybe give it a bit of time and see if you adjust to liking it the way that it is. I also agree with Nomo regarding using the Yamaha DSP modes. My previous receiver was a Yamaha, and I was all excited about using their movie mode, but I ended up liking the straight Dolby Digital (it didn't have DTS) mode better. That's all personal preference, though.

 

[ee4hire]

So, I'd say maybe give it a bit of time and see if you adjust to liking it the way that it is.

Well said, point taken. I'll probably continue to tweak, but backing off and listening to more varied content is probably a sensible approach.

Thanks.