Would it be worth it?

[matthewdclarkaz]

I am always thinking of the next upgrade for my system (not a foreign concept around here,) but I am unsure how much this would change things.

Currently I use a Denon AVR-2106 with two Athena AS-F2.2 and the rest of my surround system. I listen to 2 channel a lot though, and was thinking that I could maybe improve my 2 channel by getting like a emotiva 2 channel amp or 2 outlaw 2200's (mono) for better sound from my fronts.

The Denon does a very nice job for all purposes, but know I could get better out of the athenas, and am thinking the above might do the trick.

Thoughts?

_matthew

 

[Adam]

Matthew,

I was recently in the same situation. I have a Pioneer receiver, and I was wondering if an external amp would help me out. I have NHT speakers that aren't very efficient. After a long internal debate, I ordered an Emotiva RPA-1. I must say, I noticed an improvement in the sound. I hooked it up so that the RPA-1 powers my front left/right speakers and my Pioneer does the center and rears. It lightens the load on the Pioneer. The front speakers just sound better to me when I turn them up a little louder than my usual daily listening. I'm not good at describing this stuff, so I'll just stick with they sounded better. I'm normally quite critical of new equipment that costs that much and that I can return if I don't like it, so I don't think that it was me just thinking it was better because I spent the money on it.

Now, will it make your system sound better? Honestly, I have no idea at all. Sorry to say that, but I really don't know. I just thought that I'd throw in my personal experience.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker or amp upgrade

Those Athenas are reated for 8 ohms and have a high sensitivity so they don't require too much power to play loud. I don't think you will get a major inprovement with the amp upgrade. If 2 channel audio is lacking you might consider upgrading your main speakers. If you like Athena, their new line uses the higher-end energy drivers. Also, something like the AV123 X-mtm or upcomming X-statics should be a good upgrade from your current Athenas.

I have a lower end Yamaha receiver and I am using an Emotiva LPA-1 to drive my 4-ohm Onix Ref 1's. The amp is more capable of driving my 4-ohm speakers, but changing the speakers (from Athena Audition series) was a much bigger upgrade.

If you want to experiment with an outboard amp, you can get a Behringer A500 for about $180 shipped.

 

[matthewdclarkaz]

afraid of that

adam,

that sounds about what I am looking for. It's all good on the description thing, it can be difficult sometimes to pinpoint, but as long as overall sound is better, thats generally what you are looking for. How do you like the emotiva as far as usability? everything pretty intuitive?


jcpanny,

two channel with the denon is nice, but I am looking for some better sound-staging and just a wee bit more power. They really are nice and efficient, but I can definitely tell when the denon kicks in with (I am pretty sure) is a little better current. And as far as the soundstaging goes, I generally get a nice soundstage, but I don't get much in the vertical. again I'm hoping a little better amp will help.

I was hoping avoiding getting new speakers, but I have been looking at some new martin logans that will be coming out soon.

Thanks for the advice though, I was a little afraid people would say new speakers... heeh.


Thanks to both.

 

[mazersteven]

I am always thinking of the next upgrade for my system (not a foreign concept around here,) but I am unsure how much this would change things.

Currently I use a Denon AVR-2106 with two Athena AS-F2.2 and the rest of my surround system. I listen to 2 channel a lot though, and was thinking that I could maybe improve my 2 channel by getting like a emotiva 2 channel amp or 2 outlaw 2200's (mono) for better sound from my fronts.

The Denon does a very nice job for all purposes, but know I could get better out of the athenas, and am thinking the above might do the trick.

Thoughts?

_matthew

Adding amps is not going to change the sound of those speakers. If you want to improve your 2-channel experience, then you'll need better speakers.

 

[mike c]

if you change speakers, you'll keep wondering if an amp will make a difference - and you might buy an amp anyway.

I say buy an amp, at least you get to keep the amp no matter what your speakers are ... even when you upgrade the receiver.

 

[Davemcc]

I'm going to fall in line right behind mazersteven and Mike C. An amp may not improve your sound on your current speakers, but it sure opens up the possibility for confidently choosing new speakers that may present a dificult load for a receiver. Even better, it paves the way for getting separates instead of a receiver down the road. It's a stable, long term investment that gives you many options on your upgrade path.

 

[dem beats]

x2

I would say a new amp will boot the juice to them, which in turn may help with overhead clearance for music but speakers make up almost the largest difference in audio. A seperate amp will not make too much diferenace unless you think the speakers are definately underpowered.

 

[Doug917]

I would suggest neither amp nor speakers, yet instead look into room treatment. Using acoustical panels to kill first order reflections can really clean up the soundstage. Without doing this first, you will never hear how any amp or speaker was intended to sound.

 

[avaserfi]

I would suggest neither amp nor speakers, yet instead look into room treatment. Using acoustical panels to kill first order reflections can really clean up the soundstage. Without doing this first, you will never hear how any amp or speaker was intended to sound.

Agreed. I just built and installed some room treatments and all I have to say is wow. It is definitely the way to go if you want good improvement that will help no matter what you do with your system.

 

[Adam]

adam,
How do you like the emotiva as far as usability? everything pretty intuitive?

My first one was defective, and I'm waiting on the replacement to arrive. However, while it was working, it was very easy to use. All you do is plug in the line-level inputs for your speakers (from the preouts on the Denon) into the RPA-1, plug your speakers into the RPA-1, turn on the power, and enjoy. I was amping my front main speakers, and I had to slightly adjust the speakers levels (by about 1.5dB) to recalibrate them to my center and rear speakers.

 

[matthewdclarkaz]

hadn't thought of that

Hmm... acoustical treatments... I actually hadn't thought about that, but that would be something to look into.

Yup, seems like consensus would be maybe a little change, but more from better speakers. Although I do like the idea of starting on separates.

I suppose I'll have to wait for the new Martin Logans to come out (purity and source) and start looking there.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[mazersteven]

I would suggest neither amp nor speakers, yet instead look into room treatment. Using acoustical panels to kill first order reflections can really clean up the soundstage. Without doing this first, you will never hear how any amp or speaker was intended to sound.

Room Acoustics are definitely important. But we are talking about a set of Athenas towers. There is only so much sound quality your going to get out of the Athenas. JMO

 

[annunaki]

adam,

that sounds about what I am looking for. It's all good on the description thing, it can be difficult sometimes to pinpoint, but as long as overall sound is better, thats generally what you are looking for. How do you like the emotiva as far as usability? everything pretty intuitive?


jcpanny,

two channel with the denon is nice, but I am looking for some better sound-staging and just a wee bit more power. They really are nice and efficient, but I can definitely tell when the denon kicks in with (I am pretty sure) is a little better current. And as far as the soundstaging goes, I generally get a nice soundstage, but I don't get much in the vertical. again I'm hoping a little better amp will help.

I was hoping avoiding getting new speakers, but I have been looking at some new martin logans that will be coming out soon.

Thanks for the advice though, I was a little afraid people would say new speakers... heeh.


Thanks to both.

From personal experience, I would say a bigger amplifier on those speakers would be a welcome addition. Though they have fairly high sensitivity, they seem to like more power. The bass really benefits in this regard. Sorry if my post is a bit late though.

 

[matthewdclarkaz]

interesting.

not at all annunaki. I wont be doing anything in the way of purchase, either speaker or amp, till closer to december.

They really do seem to crave a little more power. When I am playing music and I am between -80db and -23.5db I get really nice sound. But after -22db and up I hear a marked difference in clarity, sound staging and imaging, transparency, low mids and bass really become more commanding, just about everything in fact sounds better. It is a shocking difference. Thats why initially I was thinking of a better amp dedicated to just my fronts.

Someone made a good point that if I get a dedicated amp and I don't see much improvement, it's not a waste by any means as I can simply use them later with different speakers that might make better use of their power.

Maybe I will have to look for one on ebay or something to give it a try. besides, its only money... HA (or dinner for several months... it's all about priorities right?)

Definitely thanks for the input!

 

[annunaki]

not at all annunaki. I wont be doing anything in the way of purchase, either speaker or amp, till closer to december.

They really do seem to crave a little more power. When I am playing music and I am between -80db and -23.5db I get really nice sound. But after -22db and up I hear a marked difference in clarity, sound staging and imaging, transparency, low mids and bass really become more commanding, just about everything in fact sounds better. It is a shocking difference. Thats why initially I was thinking of a better amp dedicated to just my fronts.

Someone made a good point that if I get a dedicated amp and I don't see much improvement, it's not a waste by any means as I can simply use them later with different speakers that might make better use of their power.

Maybe I will have to look for one on ebay or something to give it a try. besides, its only money... HA (or dinner for several months... it's all about priorities right?)

Definitely thanks for the input!

The AS-F2.2 is a very dynamic speaker. To bring out it's best characteristics it needs an amplifier with fairly substantial headroom. I would probably suggest an amplifier in the neighborhood of 150 watts rms or larger to get maximum performance from the speaker. For its price, the Behringer EP1500 would be a great buy. It would have all the head room you would ever need.

To put it simply, big speakers usually need big power (I classify a big speaker as anything with 8" or larger drivers). To bring out their best, dynamically capable amplifiers are a must.

A new amplifier with room treatments would probably make a big difference for you. If you are still not happy then I would suggest a nicer set of speakers.

 

[WmAx]

For its price, the Behringer EP1500 would be a great buy. It would have all the head room you would ever need.

For just $50 more, one can get the substantially more powerful Behringer EP2500. It's hard to justify the EP1500 with the EP2500 at almost the same price point. If one looks around and does some price shopping, they can get a new EP2500 for about $270 shipped.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

For just $50 more, one can get the substantially more powerful Behringer EP2500. It's hard to justify the EP1500 with the EP2500 at almost the same price point. If one looks around and does some price shopping, they can get a new EP2500 for about $270 shipped.

-Chris

Chris,

I was unaware that it could be had for so little. I agree, with the small difference the EP2500 is the better buy, especially considering the vast amount of extra power.

 

[Ryan8886]

The AS-F2.2 is a very dynamic speaker. To bring out it's best characteristics it needs an amplifier with fairly substantial headroom. I would probably suggest an amplifier in the neighborhood of 150 watts rms or larger to get maximum performance from the speaker. For its price, the Behringer EP1500 would be a great buy. It would have all the head room you would ever need.

To put it simply, big speakers usually need big power (I classify a big speaker as anything with 8" or larger drivers). To bring out their best, dynamically capable amplifiers are a must.

A new amplifier with room treatments would probably make a big difference for you. If you are still not happy then I would suggest a nicer set of speakers.

Annunaki

Thanks for sticking up for these excellent budget speakers! Not everyone has a billion bucks to blow on their rigs! (yes..I'm poking at you, mazersteven! But all in fun )
I run the AS-F2.2's as my mains and just added the Emotiva LPA-1 to my setup this month. While only 125wpc, there was a noticeable improvement in sound quality at the upper limits of comfortable listening. Yes..there is always the bias issue. I just paid $450 for the amp and "want" it to sound better. However, that's tempered by the fact that I can still box it up and send it back and get that cash back. After two weeks of listening, I can tell you that what before was harsh to the ear became smooth and more distinct. I'll admit to not having the techinical jargon to describe it, but after adding the amp, I was able to pull out individual instruments much easier at higher volumes where, before, things tended to muddy together. These speakers are very efficient and easy to drive, but they DO love lots of power. Quality amplification does seem to improve their sound, however it doesn't pay off until you really get them rocking! I noticed a serious improvement when listening to "Fleetwood Mac- Live From Boston" at/near reference levels. The reproduction of the synth blasts from the Korg Triton Studio on Nicks' "Stand Back" and the percussion display leading into it were just much more authoritative than the H/K receiver could supply. Now I just turn it up and grin from ear to ear!

matthewdclarkaz,

Like you, I was on the fence about amp or room treatments, having received similar advice to you. I went with the amp simply because it was a great deal while it was on sale. Room treatments may be my next upgrade. Either will likely bring you noticeable improvement.

 

[Davemcc]

Throwing room treatments into the mix changes things. I'll throw a little perspective on that. When I first hooked up my speakers to my receiver, it was obvious I needed room treatments because the room was so reflective it made high volumes intolerable. I did the room treatments and it was a huge improvement. After a while, I added the Rotel amp and noticed an improvement in sound quality at higher volumes. Recently, I removed the system and treatments to paint the room and re-installed the system first. Without the treatment and even with the Rotel, the higher volumes were again intolerable due to reflections. With the treatments replaced, all is right again.

The lesson: An untreated room that sounds bad will still sound bad with better equipment. A treated room that sounds good will sound better with better equipment.

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition either. DIY treatments don't have to be expensive to work great. Do some simple treatments, get the amp and start saving for those Martin Logans.