World Class Sound Cheap

[miklorsmith]

OK, maybe not world class, but really, really excellent. I'm thinking about selling my stuff which cost 5x more. What is it? Funny you should ask. . .

I heard about the Sonic Impact T-Amp, written up by TNT audio and 6moons as an unheard of value, and competitive with offerings thousands of dollars more than its $30 price. Yep, $30. Ecost had them for $19.95. Problem? 5 watts per channel output.

People with low-powered SET amplifiers have been using high efficiency speakers for years. The combination can be enchanting and many of these fringe-dwellers would use nothing else.

So, gotta get myself some hi-eff speakers. No dough though. I looked high and low and there is a lot of buzz over a new driver from Fostex called the FE-206E that is very favorably reviewed, at about $85 a driver delivered. A big part of the appeal is that it's a single driver, with rated extension from 39 hz to, I think, 18 khz. TNT has an article on how to build a bass reflex cabinet for these:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bfb_e.html

Got them built and Kaplowie! A little carpeting here, a little damping on the driver there, and these speakers are incredible. The driver tweaking is a journey in itself but worthwhile. They are explosive, in a good way, and are sublime with emotion and detail. The low-bass octave is missing, but not obviously so. They rock. Total cost? About $250.

T-Amps are not available, or haven't been. My big amp hisses with the hi-eff speakers and I needed an amp for them. I settled on the Clari-T, which is getting a lot of play over at Audio Circle. Break-in time is supposed to be at least 100 hours with these and out of the box I was not impressed. One day later, it was better than my HCA-2 with these speakers. Tonight?. . .

It's an odd amp. Output is 6 watts, which CRANKS my very large room. Very clean. Pristine. It's battery powered, needing to be recharged for an hour each 6 hours of play. It only has one set of inputs and a volume control, so it's a one-input integrated, about the size of a cigar box. It needs a passive (preferably) pre for switching sources.

Here's the thread on the amp and a link to the manufacturer:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=14587
http://www.redwineaudio.com/

Positive Feedback Online will be reviewing this amp in the next few months, as I'm sure will other publications. If you haven't heard of it, you will. Cost for this odd duck? $499 delivered.

The combination in my home is incredible and represents the best value in audio I've ever seen. I haven't tweaked the speakers nearly to their potential and the amp isn't broken in. It's almost scary.

Anyway, too long a post already and there's a lot more to tell, but suffice it to say that there is a potential revolution here, and one with downward implications for cost. If that isn't exciting, I don't know what is.

 

[JohnA]

Just so you know

The little T-amp can be run off an AC adaptor...no recharging the batts. also as the batts. ware down speakers sound like crap...keep the constant power to it. You can find the AC adaptor here:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-1135

Hope that helps

 

[hopjohn]

What kind of db output with high efficiency speakers can you expect from such a setup? Thought it might be something worth experimenting with some bookshelf spks off ebay or something.

 

[miklorsmith]

Efficiency is key

The Fostexes are listed at 96 db at 1 watt. My room is essentially the whole house, about 30 x 25 x 15. I had some heavy dub music playing last night and it was really loud. I have an SPL meter but I forgot to break it out. Maybe if I beat my wife home tonight. . .

I don't think it would be worth trying with anything under 90 db unless you have a very small room. There are used Klipsches available for cheap that certainly will give a good taste of the tripath driver control.

Also, with a few adaptors, the stock Sonic Impact is supposedly very good, especially if you use a sealed lead acid (SLA) battery to power it. The SLA battery has particularly good current dumping abilities and does great things for the amp. You can get one for about $25. Because of the phenomenal qualities of the stock amp and its cheap cost, many people have been modifying it. It is widely held that the battery is the best and easiest improvement available, much better than the aftermarket AC cord.

Some used Klipsch or other hi-eff speakers and a stock SI could be had for probably $150 and would surely whet the appetite for further (still cheap) improvements.

I will be taking photos of my completed speaker project and posting them as well. Fun, fun, fun.

 

[Rob Babcock]

From all the raves over the Clari-T, I almost regret blowing the epic sum of $100 on my Tripath-powered Griffin PowerWave.

 

[miklorsmith]

103 db, 10 feet from the speakers

on Soundgarden's Superunknown last night with the volume half way up. I had to put ear plugs in to do the test.

One caviat with the speakers. You will have to be ready to spend some time tuning them to your taste. They sound great off the bat, but have a native hump in the lower treble/upper midrange that with simpler music is nowhere to be found, but in blazing rock or orchestral music can be peaky.

This can be tamed in different ways. Those with a Behringer or similar EQ are already set. If it's annoying to others, there are increasing levels of tweaks that can be very productive, some reversible, some not. Further, the bass port can be different lengths, which tunes the low-note. Longer means lower, but can result in a recession somewhere further up.

To save more dough, smaller and less expensive drivers are available, some as cheap as $20. Fostex has some that start just a little over that, and RadioShark actually carries some decent ones for very cheap. Just make sure to get some with a good sensitivity rating. The variety of drivers available to stuff in the 8" hole is impressive.

Good point, Rob. There are other choices for tripath amplification too. Teac and Panasonic also make lower powered amps which others are modding. These amps are significantly more powerful than the lowly SI. There are others modding the the Sonic Impact as well.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Vinnie at Red Wine Audio has a pretty sweet looking amp based on the Clari-T, as do a few others. Looks like you better buy an extra now if you can; it looks like they're getting scarce. I'd heard a rumor that the company was responding to the success of the Clari-T by creating a fancier version, but the company flatly denies it. Many cheap products of it's ilk are only in production for a year or two, so this is the time to stock up. They're cheap enough.

Lots of guys are raving over the TEAC, and it's a pretty good deal too (30 Watts X 3 for $99). My P-wave is a little lower powered, but it sounds great, too.

Ed at the Horne Shoppe has spoken very fondly of the new digital amps, and lots of his customers are driving their horns with Tripaths.

 

[Takeereasy]

what would the minimum efficiency of a speaker be for it to be compatible with this amp? Would 91 db 1 watt 1 metre be ok? I'm dying to try this cheap little guy out after reading the reviews. Thanks for the heads up miklorsmith! I am looking into getting an old marantz 930 dvd player to use as the audio component. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated as well.

 

[miklorsmith]

Efficiency

Dunno. Conventional wisdom would dictate an absolute minimum of 90 db for an amp of this size to drive effectively, preferably 95 db. This is where the project speakers make sense, as the drivers are 96 db. The combination is sweetening daily, BTW.

The curious have been plugging in just about everything they can get their hands on and most of the accounts are positive. One guy was using some 84 db British speakers that he said sounded positively electrostatic with the amp. Some particular combinations with notorious speakers are said to be problematic though. No harm in trying out whatever you've got if you're prepared to rethink speaker choice if it doesn't work out.

It seems this particular execution is less picky with speaker pairing than most other small amps.

Of course, 6 watts won't make your ears bleed with inefficient speakers. Further efficiency will add to the explosive potential of the amp and will likely sound better. With my ears 2" from the 96 db speaker and the volume maxed out, I hear nothing. Nada, zilch. This thing is quiet as the grave, so increasing efficiency doesn't produce the nasties that a bigger and noisier amp would with, say, 100 or 103 db matches.

For clarification, the Red Wine Audio "Clari-T" is the amp I'm running, based on the Tripath 2024 chip. Sonic Impact introduced the T-amp last year, getting the buzz started at 6moons and TNT. If you can get one, the Sonic Impact is $30 - $40, whereas the Clari-T is $499 delivered.

 

[Takeereasy]

I can't resist trying one. I am going to order one from parts express, but I am a little concerned that they are back ordered till March 9. I am only concerned because I wonder how firm a date that is, I don't really want to wait 3 or 4 months. It costs $30 US so by the time I get it here should be about $60 CDN. I am going to try and pick up a Marantz dvd 930 to use as a cd player for about $40 CDN, and I've already got a very nice adaptor to use as a power supply. I am going to try it with my PSB 2Bs but if they don't work I'll give some other products a whirl. I am very curious to hear the sound I can get for around $100. (plus I always enjoy another project) Thanks again miklorsmith, great post.

 

[miklorsmith]

Discman

FWIW, I was using a 15-year-old discman and an .mp3 source this weekend to great effect.

I think Target.com might have them in stock, and Sonic Impact is reported to have them as well. You might have to pay the FULL $39.95 USD

Good luck with the project, Takeereasy. Keep us posted on the progress.

 

[HookedOnSound]

efficiency

The Fostexes are listed at 96 db at 1 watt... had some heavy dub music playing last night and it was really loud.

My brother in law was telling me the same thing 4 yrs ago... High efficiency spkrs are definitely the way to go!

If I remember correctly, for every 3dB of gain you require twice the power, so it makes sense that if you have speakers at 96dB of sensitivity you can get quite good SPL levels with minimum power levels.

Some of the challenges in manufacturing good speakers has always been trying to achieve a 'transparent' speaker. It usually requires a compromise of construction and/or materials that affect sensitivity.

I wish the speaker vendors would put more emphasis and research on building more efficient speakers. This in turn would reduce power requirements required for matching adequate amplifiers/receivers (result = lower $$$) with low distortion/good dynamic range.

If it sounds good to you that's what counts.

 

[Takeereasy]

$39.95 US my god, thats like a million dollars CDN!!! I tried target.com, but they won't ship up north, thanks though. I have an uncle in CA that I might ask to pick one up from a local Target and send to me. I have an email in to Sonic impact to see if they ship up here or sell through any Canadian distributors but I'm not holding my breath. They are out of T amps as well.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[miklorsmith]

Project Update

Here are some photos of the project. They wouldn't display by uploading:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/modules.php?set_albumName=albus19&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Searching high and low, I have the trick to really put the speakers over the top. Inserting a 4-10 ohm non-inductive resistor between the positive terminal at the driver and speaker wire mellows the peakiness and brings the bass forward considerably. I'm not getting gut-punching bass, but it is very tuneful to about 50 hz and satisfying to my ears. I'm using an 8-ohm, because that's what RadioShark had, but I've had one recommendation for 5 ohms and one for 4 ohms. Both are on-order and will be here this week.

In fact, i've incorporated about every tweak out there for the 206 and even piloted my own with the golf ball. There is some time involved in these "simple" speakers.

Treble is very refined, non-glaring, excellent. This one driver covers more range than seems possible. However, the true beauty is in the midrange. Voices are conveyed better than anything I've heard. A lot better. There is an incision, a bite to the leading edges of notes that astounds. Combined with the amp, the snap of transients is incredible.

I have in fact sold my Gallo Ref. 3's. While I don't believe the project speakers are the end-all of high-efficiency speakers, listening to them literally rendered my expensive, highly regarded $2,600 wunderspeakers unlistenable. I'm not exaggerating at all to say I had to unload them immediately.

I have used that money to order some Decware RL-3's, which are full-range, high efficiency units basically carrying this idea forward with professional design and execution. If the Decwares were not an option and I had to choose between the Gallos and my homebrews, I'd choose the homebrews without reservation.

Of course, your chosen musical style is very important. I listen to jazz, female vocals, techno, hip-hop, rock, and classical. I'd say of all those genres, these speakers are best at vocals, jazz, and techno. They are good at classical and probably poorest at rock and hip-hop. Blazing guitars live in the peaky region of the speakers and can get a little annoying, and hip hop wants pounding bass.

Subwoofer augmentation would be an option, but selection of the sub would be very important and meshing it would be tricky. It would need continuous phase control and utmost speed to keep up with the mains.

The quest continues. . .

 

[WmAx]

HInserting a 4-10 ohm non-inductive resistor between the positive terminal at the driver and speaker wire mellows the peakiness and brings the bass forward considerably.

This is the exact effect of a standard SET tube amplifier. You should order enough resistors to run in parallel that equal the desired resistance, in order to have a thermal power capacity equal to that of the speakers.

A better option would be to use a precision EQ such as a DEQ2496 or DCX2496. You then have the ability to precisely control the frequency response effects instead of relying upon the ones imposed by effecting a very high ouput source impedance by using resistors.

-Chris

 

[mustang_steve]

The T-amp is still availible...I bought one from thinkgeek.com for $30.

just go and do a search for sonic, it will be in the list.

I'll be using it for a tang-band full range setup for my computer

 

[miklorsmith]

Excellent!

That will be great! The inputs/outputs on the SI are a bit wonky, but they can be made to work. There is a nearly universal opinion that the tripath chips take quite a bit of break-in, so play long and loud.

On the Decwares, I had a chance to listen to some locally and they had the same troubles as the Fostexes, so I've ordered some Zu Druids. 101 db at 8 ohms, 130 db peak. That 6 watts is gonna seem like a million. Hope they sound good. . .I'll be paying the price for good sound if they do, they're 50 inches tall!

At least shipping is paid by Zu and there's no penalty for return. If they suck, I'm just out the price of one-way shipping, about $80.

I haven't tried a Behringer unit yet and am not excited about putting another component in the signal path. My goal is the simplest arrangement possible. However, it may become necessary as I'm sure any possible detriment from adding an additional component will outweigh the alternative.