Wood cutting business

Guiria

Guiria

Senior Audioholic
Is their a business out there that will cut wood for speaker building and ship it to you?

It would seem to me that if someone had a CNC router table able to cut 4 x 8 sheets of MDF or Ply they could buy wood at wholesale and cut stock plans for DIY subs, speakers, etc. and also do custom work at a reasonable price. Shipping may be the real deal killer but if someone offered such a service I think it would bring DIY to more people (those without all the tools).

I'm an entrepreneur at heart and maybe this is something I might look into closer.

I would also consider such a service for my DIY builds if it wasn't cost prohibitive. I have access to tools but I don't own any of the big power tools except a hand sander :) I don't find the cutting of the wood to be all that fun either, it's more the hassle part of DIY.

What are your thoughts?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Ripping wood isn't too hard with the right tools. I have done it a few times for some people who don't have the proper tools and had a design they wanted to assemble.

As far as doing it on a CNC I have been to a couple places that offer such services. Also, often times if one looks through the yellow pages for cabinet makers a deal can be struck.

In the end, I doubt there would be a livable amount of money that can be had by focusing on such a niche market though. If one doesn't own a CNC the labor charges might be unreasonable due to the vast differences between builds and cuts needed. If one happens to own a CNC this might be a different story, but purchasing one for this end, even used, is very costly.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
You could DIY one ;):D
I have looked into it just because it would be cool, but they still cost about 2k for a quality built unit. If I had 2k to blow I would learn to weld and then build myself a pair of omni speakers...
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
MDF is so heavy, the shipping would be expensive.
The packaging would have to be top notch, so the corners of the MDF wouldn't get ruined.

I'll bet going to a local cabinet shop with the plans would be a viable option.
With things being a little slow right now; a shop would welcome the work.

A buddy of mine is a master carpenter; a few years ago he was approached by someone to do a small run of custom speaker cabinets.
He showed me pictures,and like all of his work, they were flawless.
 
Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
What about shipping ?

Ripping wood isn't too hard with the right tools. I have done it a few times for some people who don't have the proper tools and had a design they wanted to assemble.

As far as doing it on a CNC I have been to a couple places that offer such services. Also, often times if one looks through the yellow pages for cabinet makers a deal can be struck.

In the end, I doubt there would be a livable amount of money that can be had by focusing on such a niche market though. If one doesn't own a CNC the labor charges might be unreasonable due to the vast differences between builds and cuts needed. If one happens to own a CNC this might be a different story, but purchasing one for this end, even used, is very costly.

let's see a CNC Shark Routing System, The Shopsmith MARK V and a corporate UPS account. :rolleyes:

It seems to me that shipping charges would kill you!
 
Guiria

Guiria

Senior Audioholic
I'm going to check around with the local cabinet makers. Given the awesome:( housing market right now I would think they would welcome additional demand for their services outside the usual.

Shipping would be such a pain :)
 
P

pweller

Enthusiast
I hope this isn't too obvious, but Home Depot will cut wood for you. I've had them cut 4X8 sheets into smaller pieces that I could fit into my car. I don't know if you need anything more than just square/rectangular pieces - they won't be doing any fancy joinery. They have a panel cutter and a radial arm saw at my local place. Go there during odd hours, it won't be very busy.

Maybe a combo of them getting the pieces close, and you finishing with a router or whatever would work. CNC is nice, but for small runs you might find it to be excessive especially if you don't have complicated pieces.

You can also find pretty cheap tools on craigslist. You might find, in the end, the added flexibility of doing it yourself is a big advantage. And, it might be faster than all of the back-and-forth with your suppliers.
 
Guiria

Guiria

Senior Audioholic
Yes my local Lowes will do up to 5 cuts but that won't get you enough cuts for a subwoofer, especially when you're building something like this:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-sealed-ported/11241-sdx15-mid-q-sealed-enclosure-pics.html :D

So far the wood cutting idea seems to work if I had plenty of money coming in elsewhere and would like to cut wood for other people as a hobby (which unfortunately isn't the case).

Either way when I get to building something a few phone calls to a cabinet maker will be in order.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
I would not reccommend Home Depot or Lowe's for cutting wood for projects. The main reason is they are sloppy. I have had issues with cuts being anything but straight, and many off by as much as 1/8"-1/4". I had to trim, cut, and then recut my own. It is not worth the wasted time, wood, and then the effort of having to do it again yourself anyway.

I would find a cabinet maker you can build a working relationship with and pursue that avenue. Even if it costs $10.00 to make all your cuts it would be well worth it. They are used to making precision cuts and will actually do a good job for you.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I would not reccommend Home Depot or Lowe's for cutting wood for projects. The main reason is they are sloppy. I have had issues with cuts being anything but straight, and many off by as much as 1/8"-1/4". I had to trim, cut, and then recut my own. It is not worth the wasted time, wood, and then the effort of having to do it again yourself anyway.

I would find a cabinet maker you can build a working relationship with and pursue that avenue. Even if it costs $10.00 to make all your cuts it would be well worth it. They are used to making precision cuts and will actually do a good job for you.
Absolutely!
Lowes and the Depot both use a Panel Saw, they aren't know for accuracy.
They get banged around too much, and go out of adjustment,
and will never cut as well as a good table saw.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Absolutely!
Lowes and the Depot both use a Panel Saw, they aren't know for accuracy.
They get banged around too much, and go out of adjustment,
and will never cut as well as a good table saw.
A good table saw with a nice wide fencing system is the ticket. Too bad I don't have one...

yet.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I have had very accurate results with a battery operated circular saw and using a level clamped down as a rip fence.

it's portable and you can get a bunch of cuts out of a single battery charge. If you are worried about accuracy: Over cut by 1/4 in (so a 9X32 panel would be 9.25X32.25 inches). Line up and even out two of the four sides to flush. Then use a 3/4 or 1 inch flush cut router bit and take care of the over hang.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
I have had very accurate results with a battery operated circular saw and using a level clamped down as a rip fence.

it's portable and you can get a bunch of cuts out of a single battery charge.

That actually works very well also. I know from personal experience ;)
 
S

sploo

Full Audioholic
I can offer my 2/100th of your prefererred currency...

I've been running a K2 CNC KG3925 for a while now. This is a moderate hobbyist machine, with a 39x25" work area. It's popular with guitar builders, and I've found it'll happily munch through MDF for loudspeaker construction.

The main thing I've learnt is that CNC is not a panacea; to go from an idea or box drawing, to something you can cut takes time, and sometimes the creation of scrap!

You have to remember that parts can only be cut from one side. Cutting a rebate for a driver flange on one face, and rebates to help with box construction on the other, requires flipping a piece over and realigning it perfectly for the second cut - this is very timeconsuming. Basically, it's much easier to design your parts so that they require only cuts from one side.

Also, unless you have a vacuum holddown system (and I'd suspect that few hobbyists do) then cut parts need tabs to hold them in place, which have to be manually cleaned up afterwards.

In short, cutting a set of pieces from an MDF sheet on my machine may take anything from a few minutes to a few tens of minutes, but the total setup time of loading a sheet, cutting, removing parts, cleanup etc. usually triples (at least) the production time.

With a more expensive "small business" machine (4x8' cutting area + much faster cutting speeds) I suspect the overhead time per set of parts would be much less. I did look at producing parts for a sub on my machine with a designer a while back. The problem was that the sheer length of time it would take to cut all the parts (several load, cut, unload cycles per box) meant that it would've been impossible to sell them for a sensible price and make any money at all.

As a real world example - there's a UK based DIY speaker place I know of, and they will sell you kits of parts (drivers, crossovers etc.), the same plus MDF panels, or even completed boxes. The cost of a set of MDF panels from them range from approx 170USD (for a sub) to 500USD (for a big floorstander).

When you factor in the cost of the raw MDF sheets, transportation of materials, machine running costs, dust extraction, operator time etc., I'd consider these prices to be fairly reasonable.

It is possible to make money with CNC - there's plenty of guys doing it, but I suspect you've either got to be producing lots of simple parts (i.e. volume cutting parts to a design you know and trust for your machine) or producing high value items (like using the CNC to reduce the workload when making a custom guitar).

BTW - jinjuku's comment about using a flush trim router bit is a very good one. Even with CNC cut parts, I usually make the sizes of some panels (one with rebates on the edges) a little larger in the rebate width. Once the box is glued together, you can flush trim, and therefore ensure the joint is perfect.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I

You have to remember that parts can only be cut from one side. Cutting a rebate for a driver flange on one face, and rebates to help with box construction on the other, requires flipping a piece over and realigning it perfectly for the second cut - this is very timeconsuming.
If you are a serious shop, you will get two machines. One to cut any front pieces and one to cut any back pieces. I am trying to think of any build that required me flipping over a piece to do another cut on it.

You would just use two boards and hopefully build two cabinets at a time.

BTW, I didn't know rebates=rabbets. Learn something new every day.
 
S

sploo

Full Audioholic
If you are a serious shop, you will get two machines. One to cut any front pieces and one to cut any back pieces. I am trying to think of any build that required me flipping over a piece to do another cut on it.
Not sure I follow? All the parts for a speaker box (front, back, sides, top, bottom etc.) can be cut from a single side (and possibly from a single sheet if the box is small or your machine is large). Having a second machine would simply speed up production jobs, probably with both running the same job simultaneously.

The issue is that if you want rebates or dados on the internal faces of panels (for strong joins and/or internal bracing) you need to cut both sides if the outside face needs another rebate (e.g. for a driver flange).

Because it can be a pain to realign sheets on the machine, I'll often do a drawing so that the top face of the material being cut is the inside of the box, and driver/terminal plate holes are cut through (but without outside rebates).

The rebates on the sides that will form the outside can then easily be added with a hand held router (or router table) with a bearing guided rebate bit.


BTW, I didn't know rebates=rabbets. Learn something new every day.
Tomato tomatoe :D. There's lots of different words for the same things across the pond. I've heard it mentioned that "planer" and "jointer" have different meanings between the US and UK - can't confirm that though. Never go out in the UK wearing just your pants... you'll get funny looks :p
 
G

GTHill

Audioholic
A good table saw with a nice wide fencing system is the ticket. Too bad I don't have one...

yet.
Actually, it is much easier to use a system like the Festool TS-55 / TS-75. Now, they aren't cheap, but it is a guide rail system that requires no clamping and is so perfect you don't even have to take into account blade width because it cuts right against a sacrificial and replaceable guide.

Side by side with a table saw, one on one, I can cut panels probably 3 times as fast and 10 times as safe. Excluding CNC etc, this is by far the best panel cutting system on the market.

Gene
 
P

pjoseph

Full Audioholic
In the past I would calculate the exact dimensions of each piece of wood I would need to construct the box I am making. Then I would go to Home Depot and have them cut it for me, they do it for free but in the past I would throw the guy a couple bucks before hand and let him know that I need this as accurate as possible.
 
P

pjoseph

Full Audioholic
Well I did some searching and found a place in CA which is where I live that seems to be a good spot to have wood cut.
I will be calling them soon to find out if they can help me out with cutting the wood for my sub box, Im not sure if they only do large projects or not.
This place is also close enough for me so that I can just drive there to pick up the wood myself.
 
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