Wilson Audio Duette 2 vs Sophia

[murl]

I wanted to get some input on upgrading my two mains. Just a little background I have been listening to Definitive Technology BP2000TLs for the past decade or so. I have been in a small condo recently and have been more of a headphone listener given the small space and not wanting to wake the neighbors or kids at night. My reference headphones are Audeze LCD-4s. We are buying a new place and I would like a little change in the system. I recently auditioned some Wilson Audio Duette 2s and Alexx when traveling to another state and absolutely loved what I heard. The Alexx is way out of my budget but the used Duette 2s I would be really happy with. I would like to stay $10k or under for the pair and actually prefer buying speakers used. The main problem is I live in the panhandle of Florida and auditioning something semi high end is impossible. I considered just buying the Duette 2s because I was familiar with them and it would be an upgrade to what I currently have but also noticed that Sophia's are in my price range as well. Has anyone on the forum heard both? Any input or comments? I have also looked at Monitor Audio but haven't heard them. I have heard the current Revel Gems and liked those as well but thought the Wilsons were better.

 

[ryanosaur]

No experience with any Wilson Audio, but if you are pushing that price range, I'm intrigued to ask what you are looking for overall in your system and with the upgrade, please. ???
Considering the change from DT to something like that is pretty significant.
Having just heard the new Salk flagship SS9.5s at the CAS, I am stunned. You could easily step back from that and consider the Song3 BeAT or Encore as well. Admittedly, I am a huge fan of the sound that Dennis Murphy creates with his crossover work, and Jim's builds are phenomenal.
With Jim, if you are at all interested in hearing his speakers, contact him via email or phone. He maintains a list of customers willing to show his work, and as I understand it, many want to. These are special speakers! I heard my speakers from his Colleague, Dennis Murphy the same way: Dennis found a locl customer who invited me into his home to hear the Phil 3s... which were built by Jim for Dennis.
Beyond that, I have auditioned the MA Silvers. I have not heard the new Gold Series out this year, but they reviewed well, and based on everything else I have heard, they would be worth looking for to audition if you can.

 

[shadyJ]

Wilsons are definitely not my first choice at $10k. At $10k I would be looking at Salk SS9.5s, Paradigm Persona 3F, or Revel Performa 228Be. I also really like the design of the Atlantic Technology 8600e speakers, I would definitely give those a chance along with a couple good subs. I would also look at what could be had from Monitor Audio, PSB, Dynaudio, Legacy Audio, and Canton in this range. Also see what RBH Sound has.

 

[murl]

Overall I just want something better. The Deftechs are "fun" speakers and make a lot of noise but I would like to put together a system that is overall more transparent, analytical with more depth. The imaging is also quite poor with the deftechs. Why the sudden urge to upgrade? I have been thinking about it for a long time, mainly because we are about to move to another location and I would just like to start fresh with a new system rather than replace things later. I also have a bit more disposable income now than I did in the past. I am quite content with listening to LCD-4 headphones but you just don't get the same sense of realism with headphones that you do with speakers. I have heard the Atlantic Tech 8200 system but not the newer one. A friend of mine just upgraded from the 8200 to Salon 2s, and no I haven't had the opportunity to audition them.

 

[murl]

I have also heard Magnepan 3.7s and Martin Logan ESL 15as. My only gripe with those is you have the sweet spot and the speakers would be in our main living area where we will have guests occasionally. Would prefer something a bit more friendly for multiple people.

 

[Pogre]

That's a big purchase and deserves some time and effort into researching. For that kind of money, you want to be sure. Some of the speakers out there today in that price range will make you wonder what you liked about the DefTechs, and you don't have to buy used. The companies @shadyJ listed above are all well respected speaker manufacturers with proven track records and have pleased some of the most discerning audiophiles here.

Of the ones Shady mentioned, Salk, Revel and RBH would be getting my attention first, in no particular order. If at all possible see if you can demo a set near you. I think Jim and Dennis keep track of people who've bought their speakers and are usually more than happy to invite you over for a listen, if in your area. Your speaker budget is pretty much my whole system, lol. If I were you I'd take the time to make sure.

Good luck man, and keep us updated. We love helping good folks spend all their money...

 

[Swerd]

In the past I've heard the Sophias, but I haven't heard the Duette 2s, or any other Wilson speaker. To be blunt, I didn't like them at all.

I was at the Capital Audio Show a number of years ago, in Maryland nearby Washington, DC. Wilson was one of the main presenters. They had a large room, at least 25 feet wide, and teamed up with some other very high priced electronic audio gear. At the time, I believe the Sophia was the top of Wilson's line, and their new price was either $25,000 or $29,000. They sounded loud, powerful, and extremely bright. The treble overpowered the room. I don't believe there was anything wrong with the bass or mid-range, but the treble was so shrill I had to leave. I wasn't the only person who did that. If what I heard was unintended, considering their asking price, I couldn't understand how they could allow such a serious error. If that was their intended sound, I can only say, stay away from Wilson Audio.

I found frequency response curves measured by a reputable 3rd party, the Canadian National Research Council, for the Sophia, and an earlier version of the Duette (not the Duette 2). Considering their prices and that Wilson is a well known brand, these speakers should have a flawlessly flat frequency response. It's clear they don't.

I think that in the long run, you would be unhappy with either of these speakers. Keep looking. Some of the speakers mentioned by others above have genuine merit, the Salk speakers in particular. Many of these other speakers are also quite a lot less expensive than the Wilsons.

Wilson Audio Sophia

Wilson Audio Duette

 

[ryanosaur]

@murl
Check out the link in Swerd's signature: SongTower Listening Impressions!
Also, read Shady's review of the BMR. This may help put their sound in perspective for you.

 

[shadyJ]

In the past I've heard the Sophias, but I haven't heard the Duette 2s, or any other Wilson speaker. To be blunt, I didn't like them at all.

I was at the Capital Audio Show a number of years ago, in Maryland nearby Washington, DC. Wilson was one of the main presenters. They had a large room, at least 25 feet wide, and teamed up with some other very high priced electronic audio gear. At the time, I believe the Sophia was the top of Wilson's line, and their new price was either $25,000 or $29,000. They sounded loud, powerful, and extremely bright. The treble overpowered the room. I don't believe there was anything wrong with the bass or mid-range, but the treble was so shrill I had to leave. I wasn't the only person who did that. If what I heard was unintended, considering their asking price, I couldn't understand how they could allow such a serious error. If that was their intended sound, I can only say, stay away from Wilson Audio.

I found frequency response curves measured by a reputable 3rd party, the Canadian National Research Council, for the Sophia, and an earlier version of the Duette (not the Duette 2). Considering their prices and that Wilson is a well known brand, these speakers should have a flawlessly flat frequency response. It's clear they don't.

I think that in the long run, you would be unhappy with either of these speakers. Keep looking. Some of the speakers mentioned by others above have genuine merit, the Salk speakers in particular. Many of these other speakers are also quite a lot less expensive than the Wilsons.

Wilson Audio Sophia
View attachment 30285

Wilson Audio Duette
View attachment 30286

The Sophia measurements don't look like they would sound awful, but you would hope for a hell of a lot better given that speaker's cost. That would be OK for a $150 speaker, but not for however many thousands that thing sold for. The Duette, on the other hand, has a very serious problem, obviously. The problems with that would be heard right away.

 

[Swerd]

Now that I've sounded off on Wilson Audio, what could I recommend at roughly $10k?

My first choice for new speakers would be Salk's top of the line, the SS9.5. Also look into Salk's Song3 line, a variety of 3-way designs less expensive than the SS9.5. I own the Salk Veracity ST speakers and am very happy with them.

I've also heard and liked some Revel towers, I believe it was the Salon 2 towers. The other speakers in the Revel line have a very good reputation, but I've not heard them.

And if you must spend top dollar, I've heard and liked the sound (not the prices) of some Joseph Audio speakers, the Pulsar, the Perspective, and the Pearl. In my opinion, the Perspective at about $13,000/pair was quite similar to my Salk Veracity ST speaker, at about $4,700/pair.

 

[Swerd]

The Sophia measurements don't look like they would sound awful, but you would hope for a hell of a lot better given that speaker's cost. That would be OK for a $150 speaker, but not for however many thousands that thing sold for. The Duette, on the other hand, has a very serious problem, obviously. The problems with that would be heard right away.

I agree, the Sophia speakers, on paper, don't look nearly as bad as what I heard. They were so shrill that they could drive out all the mice, rats and cockroaches from the hotel we were in. Wilson Audio & Pest Control.

 

[Beave]

The Wilson Duettes, if I'm remembering right, have a significant lack of baffle step compensation, as evidenced by their frequency response, and are really meant for being placed near a wall behind them to compensate for this.

Edit: But their rear port limits just how closely they can/should be placed to the wall behind them. But they probably do sound their best with the rear of the cabinet just a couple inches from the wall behind them.

PS. They use Scanspeak revelator drivers, pretty pricey, but still not nearly as pricey as the speakers themselves. You're paying a lot for the name and for the cabinet and for them being built in the US.

 

[Beave]

I just did some reading (Stereophile reviews, Soundstage reviews, etc), and indeed the Duettes are "voiced" to allow placement against a wall or even in an actual bookshelf.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wanted to get some input on upgrading my two mains. Just a little background I have been listening to Definitive Technology BP2000TLs for the past decade...

Ah, a fellow DefTech alumnus.

My first big system was the DT BP7000SC for FL/FR, CLR3000 for C, BP7001SC for SL/SR, and Trinity for Sub. The good old days.

Since then, I’ve owned Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, Philharmonic 3, TAD 2201/ and a few others from ATC, Dynaudio, and Focal.

Now I own RBH speakers.

Not the Sophia, but I did listen to the Wilson Sasha back when I was auditioning Salon2 and B&W 800D. The Wilson sounded pretty good, but not any better than many speakers I heard. The one thing that turned me off was their general speaker measurements as a whole company.

I was turned off by the B&W Diamonds measurements too, but I bought them anyway because I was intrigued by those Marlon Heads.

Naturally, everyone likes different things. There is a speaker, amp, AVR/AVP, etc. for everyone.

When it comes to spending $10K for speakers of your next decade or two, you’re going to have to do a lot soul-searching to figure out exactly what your preferences are.

Besides sound quality (a lot of good sounding speakers out there),what are other things you want in your $10K speakers?

Are measurements important to you?

 

[Joe B]

Wilsons are definitely not my first choice at $10k. At $10k I would be looking at Salk SS9.5s, Paradigm Persona 3F, or Revel Performa 228Be. I also really like the design of the Atlantic Technology 8600e speakers, I would definitely give those a chance along with a couple good subs. I would also look at what could be had from Monitor Audio, PSB, Dynaudio, Legacy Audio, and Canton in this range. Also see what RBH Sound has.

Having auditioned them a couple of times, I can say that's where I would drop $10 grand......I wish!

 

[murl]

Ah, a fellow DefTech alumnus.

My first big system was the DT BP7000SC for FL/FR, CLR3000 for C, BP7001SC for SL/SR, and Trinity for Sub. The good old days.

Since then, I’ve owned Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, Philharmonic 3, TAD 2201/ and a few others from ATC, Dynaudio, and Focal.

Now I own RBH speakers.

Not the Sophia, but I did listen to the Wilson Sasha back when I was auditioning Salon2 and B&W 800D. The Wilson sounded pretty good, but not any better than many speakers I heard. The one thing that turned me off was their general speaker measurements as a whole company.

I was turned off by the B&W Diamonds measurements too, but I bought them anyway because I was intrigued by those Marlon Heads.

Naturally, everyone likes different things. There is a speaker, amp, AVR/AVP, etc. for everyone.

When it comes to spending $10K for speakers of your next decade or two, you’re going to have to do a lot soul-searching to figure out exactly what your preferences are.

Besides sound quality (a lot of good sounding speakers out there),what are other things you want in your $10K speakers?

Are measurements important to you?

It's funny I remember reading many of your posts on the forum when you had the 7000SCs. I haven't been very active on the forum in the mean time. What can I say life happens, too many 100 hour work weeks, kids etc. Life is better now and I am starting to enjoy the hobby again. I would really like to audition the philharmonic 3s, Salon 2s, and some of the monitor audio speakers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ok spending less than $10k, but this is the top of the range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's funny I remember reading many of your posts on the forum when you had the 7000SCs. I haven't been very active on the forum in the mean time. What can I say life happens, too many 100 hour work weeks, kids etc. Life is better now and I am starting to enjoy the hobby again. I would really like to audition the philharmonic 3s, Salon 2s, and some of the monitor audio speakers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ok spending less than $10k, but this is the top of the range.

Life happens alright.

It will be interesting watching your journey. If you are set on Wilson Audio, that’s cool too.

 

[murl]

I’m not set on Wilson’s. Unfortunately I just have such little opportunity to audition speakers.

 

[murl]

It is really hard to find someone that speaks badly about the philharmonics or Salk audio speakers. I have been reading reviews and the consensus overall seems very good.

 

[Pogre]

It is really hard to find someone that speaks badly about the philharmonics or Salk audio speakers. I have been reading reviews and the consensus overall seems very good.

They're considered top of the mark by many.