Why do we feel Bass and how does it affect us?

[Irvrobinson]

If you spend time here you will think that the sub is considered the most important speaker. Good speakers do not miss a sub, period.

Agree, in perfect room conditions, but we've also discussed that the best placement for imaging is often not an acceptable placement for smooth bass response. (That's my dilemma, and the only reason I have a sub.)

 

[corradizo]

I run my LCR crossed to my colocated subs at 200hz. I have an 18" sealed sub under the L and another under the R speaker. I have spent an extensive amount of time measuring and integrating my subs to my mains by using the dsp in my sub amp and distance settings in my AVR to get them just right. Moving to such a high crossover has a drawback. Everything below 200hz is playing through both my subs regardless of if it's intended to be played by the right, left out center speaker.

 

[Eng-399]

I've recently tried different movies and music with the bass in the room turned up pretty loud. It's funny how it does affect your body. My neighbor was over and I played a few of my favorite bass clips from a demo disc I have and asked him how his body felt. The bass affects all different parts of the body with your chest feeling the punch of bass and your legs and head as well. We moved all over the room and was a fun experiment to do. It's funny to see the reaction of him when the avr is at +2 for a little while. His hands clenching the chair and said his noise itched to durning some of the movie scenes.

I've read many threads on this forum and others sites to there's guys who have multiple horns setup in there rooms and 2 guys who has 16-18's in there room. I'm sure some of the members here have watched the Irene scene on YouTube of popalocks room with his 16 HT-18's slamming. I would love to see how that feels and the pressure that those subs produce.
There's a new 32" inch sub that is in the works as well. I wonder what the final price and output will be on that. They say you can have it in a sealed 10 cubic ft. Box. To power those you would need some sanway clone amps with dedicated 30 amp circuits.

What have some of you guys on this forum seen or had a demo of with crazy HT room systems any heavy hitter rooms.

 

[Auditor55]

If I measure 128db at the listening position with a Radio Shack meter with the system cranked, how accurate would you say that might be? I have a lot to learn, so be gentle with your response.

How do you get your sub to play that loud without massive distortion using a Marantz receiver? What's your setting on the sub and in the receiver?

 

[shadyJ]

How do you get your sub to play that loud without massive distortion using a Marantz receiver? What's your setting on the sub and in the receiver?

Looks like he is talking about the entire system, not the sub alone. Also he needs a calibrated SPL meter to know for sure what he is getting. A Klipsch RF system can get loud though, no doubt about that.

 

[Eng-399]

I have a umm-6 mic from spectrum labs that's calibrated I'll set it up through my laptop via rew and see what I get. I should have sometime tomorrow to get some results. When the last reading of 129.1 db was taken it was around 12 ft back from the front subs and 6 ft back from my Nearfield subs. The delay is set on the Nearfield subs at my mlp position so they both reach me at the exact time. I'll post as soon as I get have time to do the test.

 

[Eng-399]

How do you get your sub to play that loud without massive distortion using a Marantz receiver? What's your setting on the sub and in the receiver?

I run my subs 15db hot it's what I prefer I know some guys like them 3db hot but I like a lot of bass. My subs are crossed at 120hz through the inuke Amps dsp settings. I'll take some pictures of everything in the morning and show my filters in the amp and all my settings. Its been a long day with my sons birthday party... Get back to you guys tomorrow.

 

[Auditor55]

Looks like he is talking about the entire system, not the sub alone. Also he needs a calibrated SPL meter to know for sure what he is getting. A Klipsch RF system can get loud though, no doubt about that.

I thought this thread was about how we are affected by LF played loud. Anyway, I'm still wondering how he was able to do that with just a Marantz receiver without extra amplification, even with Klipsch speakers, still pretty impressive.

 

[Auditor55]

I run my subs 15db hot it's what I prefer I know some guys like them 3db hot but I like a lot of bass. My subs are crossed at 120hz through the inuke Amps dsp settings. I'll take some pictures of everything in the morning and show my filters in the amp and all my settings. Its been a long day with my sons birthday party... Get back to you guys tomorrow.

15 db's hot!! are you kidding me. That's just for experimentation purposes, you don't listen to music or watch movies with the sub at 15 db's hot do you?

 

[Rowdy S13]

15 db's hot!! are you kidding me. That's just for experimentation purposes, you don't listen to music or watch movies with the sub at 15 db's hot do you?

I am going to guess he runs it like that all the time. I have been in this room, and heard it at reference+ levels with all of the subs running, its flat out insane! I was not able to make it to this specific event, and when I was there nobody tried to get a max SPL reading, but I said as soon as I left I called a buddy of mine and said I bet it was about 130db. I was basing that on having been in a friends car that was measured in competition at 131db, and I said this room was VERY close to the same. I don't know that I could listen to it at the same levels I did for an entire movie, but it was AWESOME for some demos.

I was out of the room when he started cranking it up and was shocked at how violent the door was moving. I got in there just in time for the Underworld Awakening demo, and holy hell! You could feel every single gunshot in your chest, along with the deeper bass just shaking everything. Next up came the Edge of Tomorrow (Live Die Repeat) demo. This one can barely even be described if I am honest. This was the one I commented that it felt like the whole room was going to come down on you. This room is what convinced me to go DIY for my subs, though not anywhere close to the same level.

I have to agree that for music (actual instruments) that a really good set of speakers is best. I also agree that the center channel is extremely import and can be argued to be the MOST important speaker in a HT system. I love bass though, and I think that for home theater you need good subs to truly get the full experience. Do you need anything like what was used in this article, probably not, but if you love bass than why not? As insane as this rooms bass is, it was not actually overpowering the mains. I have been in rooms with far less sub power, but they were turned up so hot that it was drowning out the mains (mostly the center). Now to be fair, I am comparing a short demo of a high action scene vs watching an entire movie, but having been there for the REW adjustment of his room I would assume that his subs would not drown out the main speakers during a calm quiet scene like I have experienced in other rooms.


Sean

 

[Klipschhead302]

Looks like he is talking about the entire system, not the sub alone. Also he needs a calibrated SPL meter to know for sure what he is getting. A Klipsch RF system can get loud though, no doubt about that.

I don't know how close to accurate the meter actually is, I had a buddy lend me his Rat Shack meter and mine was within 1db of his, so if both are off they are pretty equally off.

The measurement was taken at the main listening position set to C weighting. The system gets insanely loud and the pressure from the subs in that small room gets very intense. Between the 2 meters this weekend before both MFW's bit the bullet was 121db to 123db with my meter reading 123 when my friends was reading 122.

I am going to order one of the calibrated meters soon, now my question is, if a calibrated meter reads the same...............

 

[Klipschhead302]

I thought this thread was about how we are affected by LF played loud. Anyway, I'm still wondering how he was able to do that with just a Marantz receiver without extra amplification, even with Klipsch speakers, still pretty impressive.

I can't argue, the SR5003 isn't a beast but the RF-82's are rated 98db efficient, the room is 15x15 so I had no idea what to expect but the meter did hit 124 in 2009 when I shot the video from the listening position. I won't know until I get a calibrated meter I guess, but this weekend I over-stressed both MFW's and their Version 2 amplifiers went out in a loud screeching mess.

I installed Version 1 amplifiers to get me by until Mark Seaton has his new amplifiers ready this week.

To bring my post closer to topic, during the Bass Mekanik song "Subsonic" that's where I hit 124db back in 2009 and this weekend when it hit 123db. During these peaks the bass makes the floor shutter and my neighbor, whos house is 25ft away, she said her china cabinet was rattling.

I'll post a picture of the room, for a living room it's small.

 

[Klipschhead302]

On a side note, while watching episode 2 of this seasons GRIMM, this episode has my living room shake a few times. It felt awesome, I don't remember this happening last season so either they have better audio this season or this new Marantz does a better job than the previous one did at lower volumes.

 

[Auditor55]

I can't argue, the SR5003 isn't a beast but the RF-82's are rated 98db efficient, the room is 15x15 so I had no idea what to expect but the meter did hit 124 in 2009 when I shot the video from the listening position. I won't know until I get a calibrated meter I guess, but this weekend I over-stressed both MFW's and their Version 2 amplifiers went out in a loud screeching mess.

I installed Version 1 amplifiers to get me by until Mark Seaton has his new amplifiers ready this week.

To bring my post closer to topic, during the Bass Mekanik song "Subsonic" that's where I hit 124db back in 2009 and this weekend when it hit 123db. During these peaks the bass makes the floor shutter and my neighbor, whos house is 25ft away, she said her china cabinet was rattling.

I'll post a picture of the room, for a living room it's small.

So I'm guessing you had the gain on the subs set at max?

 

[Klipschhead302]

So I'm guessing you had the gain on the subs set at max?

OmiGod no, the levels on both subs are at 10:55am (if it were a clock) and in the AVR they're set +4 hot. I'll check tonight to see how the version 1 amps sound at very low volumes with the gain set to max, if I remember it sounds horribly over the top.

 

[Eng-399]

I was wrong with the 129.1 db my calibrated umm-6 mic from Spectrum labs shows

the room hit 134 db just for a second via the video I'm going to try and link.

 

[Eng-399]

Here's a picture I just took. +1 on the avr during this clip so I have a little more to go since the avr goes up to +12

In the picture I have the computer with my mic hooked up and the screen shot along with the movie playing lots of fun and room pressure.

Room size is 31 feet long 14 feet wide 8.7 feet tall finished size

 

[Eng-399]

Another video of the mic and laptop.

Behind the last row of seats is 4 subs to.

Here's another fun feature of the the room. A nightskymural painted in the ceiling.

 

[Klipschhead302]

Good golly miss molly!!

 

[nickboros]

I think this thread has gone off the deep end. The SPLs that many are talking about, if they are accurate, are not even close to safe to be exposed to for short term and definitely not sustained. I can see the allure of wanting to turn it up as much as we possibly can, since it is exciting. Like driving a Ferrari or Corvette at its limits. If you don't crash the car then great, it was a thrilling experience without any side effects. Pushing our systems like discussed in this thread, while it won't kill you, will likely lead to hear damage. The problem with hearing damage is that the onset if often delayed many years.

To me being a basshead and home theater enthusiasts, it doesn't make sense trying losing my hearing for a maybe thrilling experience now. I encourage those who aren't aware to look at the Osha standards to see what is acceptable levels to listen to (https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735 ). For me I feel safe listening at reference volume or less, since it is often recorded at that level. The recording engineers are the test subjects letting us know that this is likely safe without permanent damage over a long period of time. But, I find it more comfortable to stay below reference levels, since it is uncomfortable to me.