Why do processors need ANY video hookups?

[tonyE]

You can stay up your gum tree if you want. However the world will still go round and evolve.

I think you have grossly underestimated the cost of bringing what you envisage to market. The market for that device would be miniscule. Almost everyone here would treat it with derision and a pandering to audiophool misconceptions. I think the price would be in the $10,000 to $20,000 range per unit, by the time you were done with licensing and certification to make it legal.

The way forward for most is AV. You have already cast aspersions on the fidelity of AV equipment, and that is another audiophool trope, and just wrong. In fact the top flight AV units provide the highest fidelity in the whole universe of audio. As far as speakers it has led to significant improvement. Why? Because it requires intelligible AND natural speech. That is among that hardest challenges for speakers, yet still the majority fall short, but things are on the up and up.

Now I don't want to disarage two channel audio. As I have said many times two good speakers will always best 11 lousy ones. Two channel rigs can actually perform very well in the AV arena. Yesterday was a nasty cold windy day here, so I hunkered down in our family room, and listened to my two channel rig just in A and no V. It was just wonderful. But when I watched the news this morning I had the TV with clear natural speech, because the rig is AV.

Now that rig would not sound one wit better if it was audio only, no matter what fancy highly touted audiophhool electronics you substituted.

I personally believe that audiophilia nervosa is a clinical entity and is in the spectrum of OCD and actually deserves its own DSM code.

Below, one of my favorite winter spaces to hunker down.

I advise you take a good hard look at the wonderful evolving world of AV around you and embrace it.

One again... I ask for some information that you might be aware of... but all that comes out is that this site is not an "audiophile" site. It's at best a Home Theater site... and you all like to ridicule people who challenge your notions.

You setups have some serious issues from an audiophile point of view, IMHO. But it's OK, it's fine with you. I'm not gonna give you free advice how to place your speakers for better soundstaging or how to increase the size of your display.... It comes down to a balance between how it looks and how it works. We all make our decisions.

Yours are clear. Good for you... but don't think your decisions apply to anyone else.

BTW, I have done many consumer premises boxes in my career. That 1000 is extremely doable even at a low volume... BECAUSE you could add a minimal number of video which would satisfy 99.99% of all users. Heck, you could make it optional if you used a PC based or Raspberry based platform and make price it at optional tiers. Run Linux in it.

 

[TLS Guy]

One again... I ask for some information that you might be aware of... but all that comes out is that this site is not an "audiophile" site. It's at best a Home Theater site... and you all like to ridicule people who challenge your notions.

You setups have some serious issues from an audiophile point of view, IMHO. But it's OK, it's fine with you. I'm not gonna give you free advice how to place your speakers for better soundstaging or how to increase the size of your display.... It comes down to a balance between how it looks and how it works. We all make our decisions.

Yours are clear. Good for you... but don't think your decisions apply to anyone else.

BTW, I have done many consumer premises boxes in my career. That 1000 is extremely doable even at a low volume... BECAUSE you could add a minimal number of video which would satisfy 99.99% of all users. Heck, you could make it optional if you used a PC based or Raspberry based platform and make price it at optional tiers. Run Linux in it.

You have to back up what you say on this site. So what are our errors from what you call an audiophile point of view? He we deal in scientifically backed up data and practice. We do not subscribe to superstition. I don't need your advice on how to place my speakers, as the room and speakers are a coherent design. Yes, I have that luxury.

We need evidence, and not what we recognize as superstition, which we call "audiophoolery" of "audiophools." The amount of time we have to spend debunking all sorts of ridiculous premises, and odd superstitions is legion. We do this, so people can come to this forum and rely on hard provable facts. "Funny wire" for instance surfacess again and again.

Here we help people spend their budgets on needed items with a reasoned approach. Claiming audiophile approbation is a definite red flag here, and puts us on high alert. So your claim that we have serious issues from an audiophile point of view, just makes us beam with pride and satisfaction.

 

[lovinthehd]

One again... I ask for some information that you might be aware of... but all that comes out is that this site is not an "audiophile" site. It's at best a Home Theater site... and you all like to ridicule people who challenge your notions.

You setups have some serious issues from an audiophile point of view, IMHO. But it's OK, it's fine with you. I'm not gonna give you free advice how to place your speakers for better soundstaging or how to increase the size of your display.... It comes down to a balance between how it looks and how it works. We all make our decisions.

Yours are clear. Good for you... but don't think your decisions apply to anyone else.

BTW, I have done many consumer premises boxes in my career. That 1000 is extremely doable even at a low volume... BECAUSE you could add a minimal number of video which would satisfy 99.99% of all users. Heck, you could make it optional if you used a PC based or Raspberry based platform and make price it at optional tiers. Run Linux in it.

The term audiophile is rife with issues these days. Most audiophile sites are horrible, full of misinformation.

 

[Trebdp83]

One again... I ask for some information that you might be aware of... but all that comes out is that this site is not an "audiophile" site. It's at best a Home Theater site... and you all like to ridicule people who challenge your notions.

You setups have some serious issues from an audiophile point of view, IMHO. But it's OK, it's fine with you. I'm not gonna give you free advice how to place your speakers for better soundstaging or how to increase the size of your display.... It comes down to a balance between how it looks and how it works. We all make our decisions.

Yours are clear. Good for you... but don't think your decisions apply to anyone else.

BTW, I have done many consumer premises boxes in my career. That 1000 is extremely doable even at a low volume... BECAUSE you could add a minimal number of video which would satisfy 99.99% of all users. Heck, you could make it optional if you used a PC based or Raspberry based platform and make price it at optional tiers. Run Linux in it.

I’m going to again suggest a Marantz Cinema 70s based on your need for a unit with a small form factor and 7.1 pre outs. I think it will work out fine for you and, once set up properly, will be very easy for your wife to use. She will press a button on the Magic Remote and everything will come alive looking and sounding amazing. She’ll smile and thank you. And, isn’t that worth everything? Just do it.

 

[tmurnin]

The amount of pure BS being spewed on this thread is highly amusing. “I claim to have the world’s most discerning ear in the history of audio because I have season tickets to the symphony (excuse me, the philharmonic), and I like to sneer at the plebeians and pathetic ‘consumers’ who are satisfied with AVRs. Those poor fools who don’t understand the high science behind audio and thus are destined to suffer with woefully pathetic sound, even though the fools think it’s wonderful. I feel sorry for those people. Therefore, I demand a product no one else gives a crap about, and I want it easily available and I demand that someone produce it for less than $1k. I will stand on a soapbox in the town square and scream about this. When people tell me I’m wrong, I will mock those people as ‘home theater’ people while I am the only TRUE audiophile left in the world. Woe is me, I fear for the future of society when the AVR has become a standard.”

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The amount of pure BS being spewed on this thread is highly amusing. “I claim to have the world’s most discerning ear in the history of audio because I have season tickets to the symphony (excuse me, the philharmonic), and I like to sneer at the plebeians and pathetic ‘consumers’ who are satisfied with AVRs. Those poor fools who don’t understand the high science behind audio and thus are destined to suffer with woefully pathetic sound, even though the fools think it’s wonderful. I feel sorry for those people. Therefore, I demand a product no one else gives a crap about, and I want it easily available and I demand that someone produce it for less than $1k. I will stand on a soapbox in the town square and scream about this. When people tell me I’m wrong, I will mock those people as ‘home theater’ people while I am the only TRUE audiophile left in the world. Woe is me, I fear for the future of society when the AVR has become a standard.”

Lmao!!!!! I just read this whole post with a British accent…..lmao
The irony is that TLS is British!

 

[lovinthehd]

Lmao!!!!! I just read this whole post with a British accent…..lmao
The irony is that TLS is British!

I was more imagining a valley girl/LA sort of accent....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I was more imagining a valley girl/LA sort of accent....

Haha! That’s just as funny.

 

[lovinthehd]

Haha! That’s just as funny.

Monty Python twit works, too

 

[Trebdp83]

I fear this thread has passed the point of no return. I blame myself.

 

[TLS Guy]

The amount of pure BS being spewed on this thread is highly amusing. “I claim to have the world’s most discerning ear in the history of audio because I have season tickets to the symphony (excuse me, the philharmonic), and I like to sneer at the plebeians and pathetic ‘consumers’ who are satisfied with AVRs. Those poor fools who don’t understand the high science behind audio and thus are destined to suffer with woefully pathetic sound, even though the fools think it’s wonderful. I feel sorry for those people. Therefore, I demand a product no one else gives a crap about, and I want it easily available and I demand that someone produce it for less than $1k. I will stand on a soapbox in the town square and scream about this. When people tell me I’m wrong, I will mock those people as ‘home theater’ people while I am the only TRUE audiophile left in the world. Woe is me, I fear for the future of society when the AVR has become a standard.”

Very succinctly put! That really sums it up, or as G.K. Chesterton so succinctly put it: - "If you argue with a lunatic you will always get the worst of it."

 

[tonyE]

I got to say I've worked for six start ups and us R&D folks got invited to many lunches... the Sales and Marketing teams had the best lunches.... but while we engineers drank ice tea and went back to work, the S&M group always stayed back and drunk away their afternoons.... they seldom came back.

OK, there was one small company where the VP of engineering insisted that all the R&D engineers had to have Friday afternoons off, with pay, and drink beer.... only engineers drinking beer. No hard booze. Pizza too! But that was unique company and they were making good money.

Also, over the years, I've had quite a few personal friends in Sales and Marketing.. so I know the stories and I understand the people. They are constantly chasing money.

It's a very different work ethic. R&D is engineering, we are after features and the highest quality; S&M is about "people and sales figures"... entirely different world views. We meet only when we have to define the features and bill of materials... typically R&D sees the budget going down while S&M sees the budget going up.

That is my experience... after some 45 years in the business.

Take it or leave it... it still doesn't change my world view.

 

[tonyE]

Very succinctly put! That really sums it up, or as G.K. Chesterton so succinctly put it: - "If you argue with a lunatic you will always get the worst of it."

But if you don't know what real music sounds like... how can you be an audiophile?

EDIT.. figures, someone who blocks their profile goes and gig my post as "dumb"... if you're gonna start doing it, the least you do is show your face.... and not be a wimp.

 

[tonyE]

OK, so let's face it... no one in here seems to know if there is a "box" that will decode DD and DTS from the available outputs of my LG TV.

Everything else is just innuendo and noise... there is no value in those discussions... and there is actually quite a bit of negative karma... it would seem that making negative comments about AVRs is a third rail for many of you.

Whatever.

I guess if you folks don't know if what I want exists... I'll just look elsewhere.

Peace.

 

[tonyE]

You are barking up the wrong tree. TLS has nothing to do with cars. It stands for Transmission Line Speakers. In the AV room I showed you the front right and left speakers are dual transmission lines, truly full range and actively triamped. The center is an an active biamped single line.

The rear speakers are active dual lines. The surrounds and ceiling speakers are sealed. My 3.1 great room system has an in wall TL sub.

I'm quite aware of Transmission Line Speakers... it's an old technology by now... it's been around for quite a bit.

The first time I heard them was a Fried speaker eons ago... Currenty, transmission line designs are quite common in the DIY speaker world. In DIY the commercial restrictions go out the window and large cabinets are common.

Interestingly, the guy I bought my current planars from had just gotten a pair of TL speakers because they were "smaller". When I noted that they were also a LOT deeper, he shrugged. I guess there's always a compromise somewhere.

Currently, I'm into boxless ( planars ) or mini monitors. I do have a pair of active woofers that use servo feedback but I only turn them on occasionally. The current small speakers in the main system, Audio Note, like to be back against the wall, while the planars like to be out four feet. it's good exercise when I swap the speakers.

My systems are in constant flux, so other than having racks, dedicated power lines and having designed/built/furnished the rooms to sound good, I do not have anything built in (except for the four in ceiling coax surrounds in the den that work with the HT ), Those are vented into a ~1000 cubic foot rectangular cavity ( 14x22x3 ) that itself vents to a larger attic... As it is, I have them filtered at 60Hz and run them with 150 wpc.

 

[tonyE]

I’m going to again suggest a Marantz Cinema 70s based on your need for a unit with a small form factor and 7.1 pre outs. I think it will work out fine for you and, once set up properly, will be very easy for your wife to use. She will press a button on the Magic Remote and everything will come alive looking and sounding amazing. She’ll smile and thank you. And, isn’t that worth everything? Just do it.

I've looked at those... but they (1) are new, (2) still have too much stuff and (3) are AVRs. The last thing I want is a receiver as I already have the preamp and amps.

In the current setup, with the Emo, the Roku remote actually controls the volume going out from the TV out via the HDMI. So if she runs Netflix, Amazon, Tablos, etc.. via the Roku then a single remote handles the volume and "channel".

The only PITA is that she has to turn on the Emo and the P7 (which turns on the Nuforce amp). Emo's 12v trigger is MIA ( smoked itself one night )...

Ideally, I'd have the Roku remote also trigger the audio chain. Bur for the time being, it's a small price to pay for her turn on/off two boxes on the rack.

The more I think about it, the old Emo seems to do what it needs and was paid off a long time ago... so maybe we'll just deal with it as is. One more box.

Thanks for the thought.

 

[Trebdp83]

The Marantz Cinema 70s does have more functions than is necessary for you and is an AVR but it was the closest thing I could think of at the time concerning your need for small form factor, 7.1 analog outputs and eARC support.

Now, the Emotiva BasX MC1 looks to be right up your alley. It is an AVP, like your UMC-1, it supports eARC and has a whopping 13.2 pre outs. It has a very slim form factor as well.

I'm not sure of your Roku model, but I have a Roku Ultra that was at one time connected directly to my LG C1. Using HDMI-CEC, one touch of the Roku Home button on the remote controller would power ON my TV and AVR and the volume buttons would adjust the volume on my AVR.

While the Marantz and the Emotiva both process both Dolby and DTS signals, the LG CX and C1 models cannot actually output DTS bitstreams. They will convert incoming DTS signals to multichannel PCM and output them as such when using eARC. Nothing is actually lost here except in the case of DTS:X tracks as the metadata will not come along for the ride after the conversion to PCM. The CX and C1 support Dolby MAT so any devices that output Dolby Atmos using Dolby MAT(LCPM with Atmos metadata) rather than bitstream it will have the metadata intact at the receiving end for proper processing of it.

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, so let's face it... no one in here seems to know if there is a "box" that will decode DD and DTS from the available outputs of my LG TV.

Everything else is just innuendo and noise... there is no value in those discussions... and there is actually quite a bit of negative karma... it would seem that making negative comments about AVRs is a third rail for many of you.

Whatever.

I guess if you folks don't know if what I want exists... I'll just look elsewhere.

Peace.

We have told you why there isn't one and why. You are trying to absurdly avoid the V in AV, and yet your TV is V written large. So your TV is designed to send a digital stream via eARC HDMI to a unit that will give you a plethora of options for you do do what you want with. So the unit it needs connecting to is an AVP or an AVR. There is an NAD unit that will give your stereo form eARC. Those are your options. Without any evidence you claim these units are not of high enough quality for you, despite that being contrary to mountains of objective data.

Being labelled an audiophile here is a badge of shame. An audiophile is severely affected by Audiophilia Nervosa, and is easily duped by preying snake oil merchants, because they are incapable of discerning and quantifying objective data. They also posses creative imaginations. There is data to prove that.

To put it another way, we are not swayed by superstitions, just the hard data driven facts.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yikes, one step forward and two steps back in this thread. Everybody needs to stop insulting and provoking everybody else, myself included. There are very few options available to @tonyE based on the stated requirements. I've offered up two options and think the second option may be the one that will be acceptable in this case.

If there is one other thing everybody around here needs to stop doing, it is ending sentences with prepositions.

 

[tonyE]

The Marantz Cinema 70s does have more functions than is necessary for you and is an AVR but it was the closest thing I could think of at the time concerning your need for small form factor, 7.1 analog outputs and eARC support.

Now, the Emotiva BasX MC1 looks to be right up your alley. It is an AVP, like your UMC-1, it supports eARC and has a whopping 13.2 pre outs. It has a very slim form factor as well.

I'm not sure of your Roku model, but I have a Roku Ultra that was at one time connected directly to my LG C1. Using HDMI-CEC, one touch of the Roku Home button on the remote controller would power ON my TV and AVR and the volume buttons would adjust the volume on my AVR.

While the Marantz and the Emotiva both process both Dolby and DTS signals, the LG CX and C1 models cannot actually output DTS bitstreams. They will convert incoming DTS signals to multichannel PCM and output them as such when using eARC. Nothing is actually lost here except in the case of DTS:X tracks as the metadata will not come along for the ride after the conversion to PCM. The CX and C1 support Dolby MAT so any devices that output Dolby Atmos using Dolby MAT(LCPM with Atmos metadata) rather than bitstream it will have the metadata intact at the receiving end for proper processing of it.

OK. now we're getting somewhere...

I guess I ought to stop playing records for a bit and play a little more with the Emo...

Yes, we have the Roku Ultras at home. I got them hooked up directly to the TVs via an HDMI connection... they work quite well.. remote is nice. BTW, as an interesting aside, I had some pretty good HDMI cables, labeled '4K' and rather well built, but they were "bursty" when I first hooked up the Roku to the main TV. I had to dig further in the "video cables" box and fished out an 8K cable and that one worked fine. Oddly enough, that first 4K HDMI cable worked fine in my "8K" KVM switch driving a 3440x1440 display... I guess it must have been the inability to drive bidirectional signals? So, computer HDMI cables are not the same as TV HDMI cables anymore?

Now then, the CX and C1 won't export DTS but will export them as multichannel over PCM. Do you mean that I can hook up the PCM over a bitstream digital interface, instead of HDMI, and extract the signal without requiring a DTS license? Meaning the DTS decoding is done in the TV?

Atmos is not important for me, so I don't much care for it right now.

Now, DD, the CX and C1 output the bitstream for down stream decoding?

It sort of sucks... I want the decoding done in one place...

It just might be that either I spend 200 bucks to fix the 12V trigger in the Emo UMC1, get the used Emo XMC1 ( wanting $500, I would offer $389, it's local ) or just tell the wife to get up press this button.

Oh, another question.... or two...

I got two Plex servers with lots of videos and movies. I got them by ripping DVDs and then processing them with Handbrake into mp4. The ripped DVDs are in essence copies and I play them with VLAN... they contain ALL of the surround tracks at native bit rates.

The mp4s with Handbrake also were encoded with all surround tracks at native rates. BUT, I have never tried that experiment of running the Plex client to see if it contains the surround tracks. Mostly because the movies I want to watch in surround in the network can be accessed directly with the computers with NFS and their attached audio decoders provide the audio signal.

When I connect the Emo to the TV and play that audio source, I have noted that Fox Sports comes out on surround... nice... but I have not tried to see if there is surround track on Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc... or even if I run the Plex servers themselves.

What kind of surround tracks should I expect on the likes of Netflix? I guess I should expect the Plex server to also output a 7.1 surround track at high bit rates since that's what I specified when I transcoded the signal.

Thanks.

All of that work, and when it's all said and done, when I sit down to watch TV my wife is watching all of those fire/cop/medic dramas... and then she gets into the Korean soap operas... I fall asleep. Or if I get to watch TV upstairs ( LG 55CX with Roku ) I just tuned to Discovery+ and watch Documentaries or Airplanes Of The Ancient Aliens.. )...