What does "more sub" get one?

[menglish6]

I use Audyssey to calibrate all my speakers, and then run my subs about 3-4db hot from there. I basically never listen to anything louder than -10, and my subs seem to handle this just fine.

Given this situation, would "more sub" basically have no effect? Or rather, it would potentially allow me the headroom to listen even louder than -10? I think I've convinced myself that this is true, but wanted to hear what other's opinions were.

 

[shadyJ]

In the way you phrased it, 'more sub' will simply give you more headroom. However, a better sub may give you sharper sound quality and deeper extension. Also, you may not realize it but your sub could be compressing the peaks at your current listening levels, so 'more sub' might actually give you a tangible improvement even with your normal listening levels.

 

[Steve81]

I use Audyssey to calibrate all my speakers, and then run my subs about 3-4db hot from there. I basically never listen to anything louder than -10, and my subs seem to handle this just fine.

Given this situation, would "more sub" basically have no effect? Or rather, it would potentially allow me the headroom to listen even louder than -10? I think I've convinced myself that this is true, but wanted to hear what other's opinions were.

There are a couple things that pop into my head:

1. More sub can get you more extension in addition to more output. If you've got solid output down to 20Hz, you could aim for solid output down to 10Hz for example.

2. A subwoofer(s) can appear to be handling a given output level just fine, but a better sub could still improve on things by reducing distortion and compression among other things.

 

[Irvrobinson]

From what I've read, the primary advantage is smoothing out in-room response, especially at more listening positions in the room, by creating more complex room modes that average out better. More headroom is another advantage, because the less you stress a sub the lower the distortion, so it's not just about absolute loudness.

That said, not everyone gets an advantage from multiple subs worth the expense and annoyance. In talking to people it does seem like folks that get away happy with one sub have mains that go deep and they run them full-range, so they really have three bass sources in the room.

 

[ImcLoud]

Dual subs are real nice, but I would rather have 1 $400 sub than 2- $200's, so I think this has a lot to do with budget..

Im thinking $1000 budget gets you a vtf15h which is going to sound better than a pair of vtf1's for the same price...

But $1200 gets you a single uls-15 or dual vtf2's, and the dual vtf2's sound better than a single uls15 {IMO anyway}...

But $2000 gets you an ultra or vtf15h dual drive which I prefer the dual drive over the ultra...

So it just depends on what you are looking at....

If you have a sub now and want to add another matching sub than that is a different story, but still depends on what you have...

I probably didn't help much, sorry...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Dual subs are real nice, but I would rather have 1 $400 sub than 2- $200's, so I think this has a lot to do with budget..

Im thinking $1000 budget gets you a vtf15h which is going to sound better than a pair of vtf1's for the same price...

But $1200 gets you a single uls-15 or dual vtf2's, and the dual vtf2's sound better than a single uls15 {IMO anyway}...

But $2000 gets you an ultra or vtf15h dual drive which I prefer the dual drive over the ultra...

So it just depends on what you are looking at....

If you have a sub now and want to add another matching sub than that is a different story, but still depends on what you have...

I probably didn't help much, sorry...

You might want to limit your caffeine intake after a certain time...

 

[sterling shoote]

OP,

You know you need better when what you've got makes you conscious you indeed have a sub. However, when bass is not exaggerated and the crossover for bass complements the mains, relieving the mains of low end duty, music can sound really natural and movies have the expected explosive punch without obvious recognition of the sub's role, thus making it likely that you are already enjoying better. Check out the JBL 4641 if you perceive a need for better.

 

[menglish6]

There are a couple things that pop into my head:

1. More sub can get you more extension in addition to more output. If you've got solid output down to 20Hz, you could aim for solid output down to 10Hz for example.

2. A subwoofer(s) can appear to be handling a given output level just fine, but a better sub could still improve on things by reducing distortion and compression among other things.

#1 here definitely makes sense to me. #2 does too, but how does one identify this? If one hasn't already developed the expertise to identify these things by ear, is there a good way to learn about what to look for? Or is the only definitive way to compare two subs side by side?

Thanks again.

 

[Steve81]

#1 here definitely makes sense to me. #2 does too, but how does one identify this? If one hasn't already developed the expertise to identify these things by ear, is there a good way to learn about what to look for? Or is the only definitive way to compare two subs side by side?

Really without a base reference for what something *should* sound like (and with a HT effects, there's really not a good way to know this), you're in the dark. In my own experience, the only reason I was aware that my PC12-NSD was insufficient for my output desires was because it had a light on the back which would flash when I tripped the limiter/compressor. If not for that, I could have happily pushed it to -10dB and beyond without really noticing much of anything in the absence of something better. Of course now with the PB13U, I'm getting less compression at such levels, and it sounds quite a lot more powerful as a result. In fact, I've been able to dial the volume down a bit and still get rather satisfying output.

 

[j_garcia]

It gets you this

"MORE" is not the key here, better sound is. You can get more bass easily, but quality bass takes a bit more work. I find a solid sub that goes low adds to everything, not just movies. Most would likely be surprised at how much low content is in music; not ALL music, but a lot of it. Maybe everyone doesn't need a sub that dips well into the teens, but one that does that well is just a benefit. The sub is an integral part of the system, so why NOT have it be as good as the rest of the system?

There is pretty much no such thing as "too much" sub, but calibration is key.

 

[Irvrobinson]

From what I've read, the primary advantage is smoothing out in-room response, especially at more listening positions in the room, by creating more complex room modes that average out better. More headroom is another advantage, because the less you stress a sub the lower the distortion, so it's not just about absolute loudness.

That said, not everyone gets an advantage from multiple subs worth the expense and annoyance. In talking to people it does seem like folks that get away happy with one sub have mains that go deep and they run them full-range, so they really have three bass sources in the room.

Obviously I misread the original post. I should drink more caffeine.

 

[sterling shoote]

It gets you this

"MORE" is not the key here, better sound is. You can get more bass easily, but quality bass takes a bit more work. I find a solid sub that goes low adds to everything, not just movies. Most would likely be surprised at how much low content is in music; not ALL music, but a lot of it. Maybe everyone doesn't need a sub that dips well into the teens, but one that does that well is just a benefit. The sub is an integral part of the system, so why NOT have it be as good as the rest of the system?

There is pretty much no such thing as "too much" sub, but calibration is key.

I like the way you said that. I like the ad too. Was it for Maxell? I remember the JBL L100 pictured. A pair of those and a B 380 or B 480 sub would have quite a bit of appeal even today.

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, it was the Maxell ad "Is it live or is it Maxell?"

 

[mtrycrafts]

... A pair of those and a B 380 or B 480 sub would have quite a bit of appeal even today.

Like the two here?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/mtrycrafts-albums-my-audio-setup.html