What does more power really do for your speakers?

[milehighbri]

I currently have a pioneer SC35 140wpc a B&W cm center B&W 683 fronts and RT7 polks for Surrounds and a SVS PC12plus sub

I have heard form different places that the B&W are power hungry funny though other places say the exact opposite. I kind of feel the former is true they have an 89DB sensitivity.

Anyway I have ordered the emotiva XPA-2 300wpc and wondering how the extra power really will add to and effect the sound. i know that when you double the power like I am you only get a 3db increase in perceived loudness. Is that noticible? Im just wondering what I should expect and how adding power refines a speakers sound.

Also the speakers say25-200w on back should I be concerned running the 300w emotiva? The speakers woofers seem small to me at 6in each and I dont want to blow them out but also want to see what they can really do as well. Some people have called these large speakers although they seem quite small to me. Large compared to bookshelves i suppose though.

Thanks for any informative conversation.

 

[ski2xblack]

It all depends on your room size, listening distance, etc. Just remember that 3db is pretty marginal, but significant enough that it may help in your particular situation. Having the extra power available for transient peaks won't put your speakers at risk, but too much power overall will. If you high pass your mains and use your head with the volume knob you'll be fine.

Have you done any measurements and/or used one of those handy power calculators?

 

[herbu]

I have ordered the emotiva XPA-2 300wpc and wondering how the extra power really will add to and effect the sound.

Well, since you bought first, and asked later, I suspect you're really looking for answers like, "Oh My!!! It's gonna make your system sound SOOO much better!!! Great Job!!! You're gonna love it!!!"

The truth may not be so clear. One thing will certainly happen... you will know that your speakers are sounding as good as they can sound. At very loud levels, you may be sending them a little cleaner signal. Audible or not may be debatable. 140w for a speaker rated 25-200w should be plenty. But, like I said, the amp should remove any question in your mind and it really might sound a bit cleaner. In fact, you will join a pretty large club... the club of those who have amps and don't really need them. I am in that club, and I am happy with my choices because I know that inadequate power is not an issue.

Use sense with the volume to avoid damage. You will likely have the equipment to do so, but with a bit of prudence you should probably be OK.

 

[Swerd]

Your question can be difficult to answer clearly because the differences from more amplifier can be subtle and hard to easily describe in words. A number of years ago I added an external 200 wpc amp to my existing AVR. The 2 channel amp drove my front L and R speakers. The AVR was a modest Denon rated at 70 wpc. So the power increase was about triple.

At first I couldn't say I noticed anything had changed. But soon I noticed that the speaker's bass seemed a little more crisp and firm (less bloated?) on certain musical selections. It was subtle, and depended on the music, so it wasn't always noticeable. Within a few weeks I started noticing that the cues for sound that was comfortably loud and too loud had changed. I was listening at louder levels without noticeing that it was uncomfortably loud. So I started turning it down.

Apparently, with the AVR I had judged when to turn it down by the amount of noise or distortion I was hearing. When I started using the bigger amp, those cues were less noticeable. It's not unlike driving a car, where I could estimate my speed by listening to the road noise. If I got new tires, or drove on smoother pavement, those cues changed and my sense of speed was wrong. The more powerful amp was apparently quieter, as in less noisy than the smaller amp, while driving the speakers louder.

I hope that makes sense. And I hope you experience that too .

 

[ski2xblack]

I agree w/ those who have been around the block more times than I with this stuff, like Rod Elliot. In the paper on westhost I'm recalling, he claims folks likely clip their amps more often than generally believed. His papers describe exactly the sort of experience Swerd describes. Since clean watts are cheap, even if they go unused I don't think it's a bad thing to follow the "Too much is just enough" policy. You don't want it to clip, ever.

Of course that approach can also be taken too far, as speakers have their limits, and tend to sound better when operating lower in their SOA. If more loudness is desired than extra watts can deliver, more sensitive speakers are in order.

I've compared that peak spl calculator to REW and amp measurements in several systems, and it's pretty good. Close enough to get a ball park idea of real power use. Many folks would be surprised at just how much, or how little, power they use.

 

[3db]

Your question can be difficult to answer clearly because the differences from more amplifier can be subtle and hard to easily describe in words. A number of years ago I added an external 200 wpc amp to my existing AVR. The 2 channel amp drove my front L and R speakers. The AVR was a modest Denon rated at 70 wpc. So the power increase was about triple.

At first I couldn't say I noticed anything had changed. But soon I noticed that the speaker's bass seemed a little more crisp and firm (less bloated?) on certain musical selections. It was subtle, and depended on the music, so it wasn't always noticeable. Within a few weeks I started noticing that the cues for sound that was comfortably loud and too loud had changed. I was listening at louder levels without noticeing that it was uncomfortably loud. So I started turning it down.

Apparently, with the AVR I had judged when to turn it down by the amount of noise or distortion I was hearing. When I started using the bigger amp, those cues were less noticeable. It's not unlike driving a car, where I could estimate my speed by listening to the road noise. If I got new tires, or drove on smoother pavement, those cues changed and my sense of speed was wrong. The more powerful amp was apparently quieter, as in less noisy than the smaller amp, while driving the speakers louder.

I hope that makes sense. And I hope you experience that too .

When I went from the Technics to the Yamaha I have now, the only thing I noticed just like you mentioned that I was able to play music/movies louder without it sounding as loud as it was with the Technics. It sounded cleaner.

 

[ecologydoc]

I was able to play music/movies louder without it sounding as loud.

I don't think I'm zen enough to get that, but I'm going to keep trying.

 

[Swerd]

I don't think I'm zen enough to get that, but I'm going to keep trying.

You are learning well young grasshopper. With practice, when you get old and wise, you can accomplish that without the aid of a remote volume control, … when your aging ears begin to fail .

 

[herbu]

I was able to play music/movies louder without it sounding as loud

Perfectly stated!!!

 

[3db]

I don't think I'm zen enough to get that, but I'm going to keep trying.

Have you ever heard a system play and you thought to yourself, turn it down,,its too loud?? It kinda hurts my ears... And then... have you ever heard a system where you didn't realize it was loud until you tired to talk to someone next to you and realize you had to raise your voice to to be heard? Its the latter that I'm referring too.

 

[pg_rider]

Remember, power (watts) = voltage x amps (current). With a more powerful amp you're able to supply more current. Depending on your speakers' impedance at various frequencies, more current can help the speaker reach it's full potential. It's not just about volume -- it's about those quick current-hungry bass hits. If your receiver can't deliver the surge of current that the speaker needs, then you're losing fidelity.

At least, that's my understanding. YMMV, read the fine print, yada yada yada

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I kind of feel the former is true they have an 89DB sensitivity.

....

I don't think that number reflects 'power hungry.' Perhaps if it was 83, I'd agree.
Also, while the bass driver in that speaker may be able to perform well with more power, mids and tweeters may start compressing or other anomalies and increase the distortion of the speakers. And yes, over powering a driver can destroy it even if the amp is not clipping.

 

[Mmo]

I currently have a pioneer SC35 140wpc a B&W cm center B&W 683 fronts and RT7 polks for Surrounds and a SVS PC12plus sub

I have heard form different places that the B&W are power hungry funny though other places say the exact opposite. I kind of feel the former is true they have an 89DB sensitivity.

Anyway I have ordered the emotiva XPA-2 300wpc and wondering how the extra power really will add to and effect the sound. i know that when you double the power like I am you only get a 3db increase in perceived loudness. Is that noticible? Im just wondering what I should expect and how adding power refines a speakers sound.

Also the speakers say25-200w on back should I be concerned running the 300w emotiva? The speakers woofers seem small to me at 6in each and I dont want to blow them out but also want to see what they can really do as well. Some people have called these large speakers although they seem quite small to me. Large compared to bookshelves i suppose though.

Thanks for any informative conversation.

 

[Mmo]

it's true that a small increase in DB's requires a large exponential increase in power. you'll likely find that the pioneer isn't putting out an honest 140W per channel, but the emotiva will do what it says. so the increase in DB will be larger than the math may indicate. and, if the emotiva amp lives up to the accolades of this site, your best benefit will be superior fidelity and a vibrant sound you can feel.
re the extra wattage, no worries there. as watts = volts x amps, and volts are potential energy with the amps being current flow... your shiny new emotiva amplifier will provide only what the speakers can draw. keep in mind your volume control is actually variable impedance, so if wide open any resulting distortion isn't good for speakers.

i actually just ordered the emotiva XP 5 gen 2 amp, and the SVS 12 inch sub (but enclosed, not ported like yours). they're still in the mail?!

let me know how yours sound.
cheers,
Mmo