Vandersteen Overview

Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
Since I seem to be the resident Vandersteen nut, I have been asked privately on several occaisions my opinion of them to people considering them. Thus, I would like to get it all down for posterity.

For the record I have had my system for three plus years. I have a Denon 2900 and an old B&O turntable feeding a B&K Reference 30 prepro and a B&K 7250 (200W/ch claimed) 5 channel amp. They drive Vandersteen 3A signatures in the front, with Vandersteen VCC1 siganture center and Vandersteen VSM 1 rear. I also have two Vandersteen 2wq subwoofers with 300 w amps each. The room is 15 x 20 x 8 with mild sound treatment. The center and rears are set to small and crossed at 80 Hz with a 6 db/octave slope. As I will explain, the mains are set to large and wired parallel with the subs.

Vandersteen 3a and model 2ce speakers are rather different than the typical narrow front floor standers which dominate the market. They are time and phase correct speakers employing first order crossovers. They are relaively inefficient (about 87dB) but I can achieve a sustained 100 dB in my room if I crank it all the way which is more than enough.

The 3a signatures ($3500 inc stand) are the most linear and neutral speakers I have ever heard (except the $15000 model 5A). They are 30Hz to 22 KHz +/- 1.5 dB which is the tightest tolerance I have ever seen. +/- 3 dB from 26-30KHz. The drivers are mounted in an unusual manner which results in a baffleless housing which may have as much or more to do with the sound as the time phase correctness. I believe this mounting produces the phenomenal soundstage which is wider than the speakers are apart. It is also very deep, perhaps 10 or 12 feet by aural perception. There is no coloration to the sound that I can describe, just incredible detail and a crisp coherent sound. I have never experienced listening fatigue. They handle all types of music equally well.

There are downsides and tradeoffs. First, they have a poor WAF although the appearance is there for a reason. They also are more position sensitive than the average speaker and need some breathing space from the front wall. The 30" I give them is barely adequate and I move them out when I really want to listen seriously but they intrude on a major walk way. They must be biwired and the manufacturer strongly advises against bridging. My 17cent/ft wire works just fine. The sweet spot is fairly small no more than three feet in each dimension.

The main speakers image so well in fact that I usually turn OFF the center channel for movies and it sounds better. Richard Vandersteen says that I woudn't say this if I upgraded my center to the VCC5 but I don't want to pay for that now. I only use the center if there is a crowd over to help those outside the sweet spot. The rears are unusual as well. They are coaxial mounted two ways which do an excellent job but are neither cheap nor beautiful.

The sub was well reviewed by Richard Hardesty the audio perfectionist. This review is available for free at his website (www.audioperfectioinst.com) and at www.vandersteen.com. I don't agree with much of what he has said about other topics and sometimes find his explanations incomplete for my brain but this review is very well done. In short the sub is extremely fast and has an adjustable q. With the q set to the minimum the frequency response is flat to subsonic levels. There are no ports which maximizes flat frequncy response at the expense of effeciency. Thus they are nowhere near as loud as most subs. They are superb for music.

A great plus of the subwoofer is that they do NOT connect to the LFE output. Instead they are wired parallel to the main speakers from the amplifier output. The amp of the subwoofer is designed to see this signal. The sub includes a crossover connection to be placed between the preamp and amp (or the pre out and amp in on a reciever). Thus the amp does not need to make the low frequencies and the main speaker and the sub are smoothly integrated regardless of the make of the main speaker. This crossover is adjustable. If you believe that an amp imaprts color to the sound (I am skeptical) then it will be imparted both to the main speaker and the sub.

The subs blend imperceptably with the main speakers. I hear bass as low as I can imagine but it seems to come from the mains, not the subs as they should. If I want explosions I can turn up the q. For music I like the q between 0.5 and 0.7.

I didn't mean to be so long winded but these are VERY different sounding than most speakers. They use little wood and thus are very competitive at their price points especially the sub and the 3a and it baby brother the 2ce ($1500). I have heard nothing for less than $5000 which can touch the 3a including Martin Logan, Thiel, Meadowlark, Maggies, Ariel, Dynaudio or Monitior Audio. I realize they are a bit steep for most folks but I wanted you to realize that speaker Nirvana can be had for $3500 with no audible deficiencies. I can't say that about any other speaker less than 5 figures and wouldn't care if something that cost that much was better anyway.
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
Nice read Dan. I myself am very taken by the Vandersteen sound. In fact I just put my Paradigm Studio 40's up for sale and Vandersteen is on my short list.

Can you comment on the 1C and how it might work in a small 12' x 12' x 8' room. This could change however in the near future since im looking into a bigger place. I love the 2CE Sigs but they need a medium to large room and breathing space.

What im worried about the most are the side walls. I have my current speaker roughly 6 inches from the left wall and towed in a bit, but the right speaker is not since there is kitchen there. I can also place these roughly 2.5 feet from the back wall. But outside of this I do not have much flexibility other than that.

I know I can buy them and return them. Thats not the problem. Its just a major pain in the ***. Being I live in San Francisco and dont own a car.

Thanks for any help.
Glenn
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
I have seen but not heard the model 1. The difference between the 2 and three to me is improved higher frequencies in the 3 and the drivers are individually matched.

I don't think the sidewall will be as much of an issue as the front wall but could be wrong. Putting some sound absorbing material on the sidewall may help considerably. I have a similar but larger arrrangement. One is three feet from a sidewall and the other is three feet from an open archway. I think the archway is the bigger problem and there is no solution that is asthetically acceptable. The image loses focus somewhat beyond the speaker on the open side which I blame on the archway. A call to Vandersteen may help. You generally get to talk to Richard himself and despite forum chats to the contrary on other sites, I have found him friendly and tolerant of some stupid questions on my part.

The model 1 also could make great rears if you get to a larger room some day and want to upgrade. Let me know how it works out and how you think the 1 compares to the 2ce.
 
JohnA

JohnA

Audioholic Chief
anamorphic96 said:
Can you comment on the 1C and how it might work in a small 12' x 12' x 8' room. This could change however in the near future since im looking into a bigger place. I love the 2CE Sigs but they need a medium to large room and breathing space.

What im worried about the most are the side walls. I have my current speaker roughly 6 inches from the left wall and towed in a bit, but the right speaker is not since there is kitchen there. I can also place these roughly 2.5 feet from the back wall. But outside of this I do not have much flexibility other than that.

I know I can buy them and return them. Thats not the problem. Its just a major pain in the ***. Being I live in San Francisco and dont own a car.

Thanks for any help.
Glenn
Hey Glen,

I by chance do happen to have a pair of Model 1's (first model 1's that they made) in a small room close to the dimensions of yours. It is a 13 x 14 x 7 and the left wall is well.... gone, opening up to the entry. I had them in an apartment and they sounded muddled, of course this might have be due to the placement (only 5-6" away from the wall), but in our house I pulled them out to about 1 to 1-1/2' from the back wall and toed them in to the listening spot. They sound so much better now, the sweet spot is small, about the size of our couch (6ft.) but I found that the soundstage is very transparent. I'm very happy with them. Hope that helps. :D
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
Thanks for the help fellas. I do have an auralex kit up in my room and do plan on buying another. The wall in front of the speakers is treated and the left side wall next to the speaker is treated with a 3' x 4' panel to prevent refelctions. Also the left rear wall is treated for the refelction coming off the right speaker. This has helped immensely.

Im probably gonna just have to give them a shot to find out. John im probably gonna try your suggestion on the toe in. I tried that with my Studios and it helped. I will also give Vandersteen a call for advice.

Dan im probably not gonna listen to the 2CE's. Because if I do there will be no turning back. I need a new cd player as well.

Thanks,
Glenn
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
anamorphic96 said:
Dan im probably not gonna listen to the 2CE's. Because if I do there will be no turning back. I need a new cd player as well.

Thanks,
Glenn
I know what you mean. I was considering the 2ce vs. Monitor Audio silver 9i when I heard the 3a and that was all she wrote. ;)

Easy on the toe in. Be prepared to spend MUCH more time fiddling with the placement than the average speaker. An inch or two may matter a lot in your small room.
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
One of my early intros to Vandersteen where some 2CE's with a Threshold Pure Class A amp driving them. That was was system to behold. The midrange transparency was something I will never forget.

I think the only slight weakness Vandersteens have is the bass could be a bit tighter. But thats it. I love everything else about them.

I wish more people knew about Vandersteen.

I wonder if Clint could get a Vandersteen HT/Music system for review. That might help a bit. Especially with how in depth the reviews are.
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
Clints welcome to come to my place to check em out. At 90 lbs each for the mains and subs they aren't going to far. Funny what people think. I thought the 2ce was short in the tweeter and you thought the bass was loose. Oh well, their sub easily remedies that problem.
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
I wouldnt go as far as saying it was loose. Just could be a touch tighter. :) You are right though that sub is scary good. :p
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
"Who cares if you can't afford the speakers! When you die you can be buried in them!"
I want to go on record that I object to your plan to be buried in your Vandersteens. Instead, you could remember your brother in your will.

Your review was a good read, and it made me remember how much fun we had shopping (our ears - your money!) for them. As a result, I hope more readers have become aware of these marvelous speakers. They are the all time champions of audio imaging.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top