Upgrading 5.1 Paradigm system.....need advice

[UnxpectedError]

Hi all, 1st post but been lurking for a while.

I've got planning on spending a decent amount of money(5-7k) on upgrading my system and would like some input on whether or not i'm on track or not.

My room is fairly large, 24feet wide X 30 feet long. Speakers are positioned in the room corners about 2-3 feet from any wall.
Currently i have a Yamaha RXA-3000 reciever(140watt rms) powering Paradigm Studio 60's v3 up front with a paradigm cc-490 center and Paradigm monitor 7's rears(Not sure version they are 10yr old). Also have a low/mid end (500$) Velodyne 12 inch sub, forget the model #.

I listen to 80% music 20% movies/tv and listen to mostly rock of varying types right from the early 60's classic, all the way to current.

Currently I run my music on 5 channel Stereo DSP as it seems to be best at filling the room with unprocessed sound. I listen to FLAC or hi quality mp3 output from a Asus sound card with Burr Brown DAC's.

I like to listen LOUD, and I particularly find the Studio 60's loose their cool and start to pop on big bass notes way ealier than I would like and even earlier than the monitor 7's.

Now part of the reason i'm posting here (And in the nebiw section) is I definately dont have the trained ear that some of you have. All these terms you guys use on hear to describe the sound you hear mean nothing to me. I find when I'm auditioning speakers I have a hard time diferentiating one speaker from the previous I heard unless they are in completely different weight classes. So far i've only auditioned 2 different speakers (At different Shops) which were the Paradigm Studio 100 v5 and the B&W CM9. Both sounded fantastic to me and I have no opinion on them other than that.

In my home I also have a set of B&W CM5 bookshelfs in another room. I brought them downstairs and put my Studio 60's, B&W's and Monitor 7's up front and turned off the sub and center for a direct comparison of what I have. I found the Sound from the Monitor 7's lacked in all areas from both the B&W and Studio 60 obviously. But I found the CM5's and Studio 60's both sounded very good to me but I'd have to give the edge to the CM5 with the exception of bass, the studio 60's had more bass.

I have a tough time comparing what i heard in my basement with what I heard in the Shop's where i heard the CM9 and Studio 100's. But based on the fact that the CM9 is a much bigger brother of the CM5 and I liked the CM5 better than the Studio 60's, I have to assume the CM9 would be a decent upgrade over my studio 60's.

Here is what I was thinking as my upgrade:
B&W CM9's up front (B Stock Demos $2000)
B&W CM Center 2 (B Stock demo $800)
B&W CM5's in the Rear (Already Own)
HSU ULS-15 Sub $1200
Emotiva XPA5 200Watt X 5 amp ($1000)
Yamaha RXA-3000(Use as Preamp, already own)

Total $5000

How does this look? I am worried that it wont be much of an upgrade over what I already have. I can move up to 7-8K if I absolutely have too but would rather not. Are there any glaring issues with my selections? Would i benifit by moving to the XPR5 amp with 400Watt X 5 for $2000? Any other recommendations?
Thx a bunch
-Rob

 

[j_garcia]

If you like the sound of the CMs, and it sounds like you do, then I think your plan sounds like a good one.

What you might try first is just picking up the XPA-5 and seeing how the 60s respond to it. It won't make them sound better IMO, but if power is a limiting factor (few if any receivers will truly hit their wattage like an external amp will), the amp may help. I had Studio 40s in my setup for a while and I found them fatiguing over long listening sessions (had them on Marantz MA500 monoblocks). For shorter listening sessions, they were very lively and fun, but ultimately not what I was after.

Don't assume anything, go listen to the CM9 if you can.

 

[Grador]

What you might try first is just picking up the XPA-5 and seeing how the 60s respond to it. It won't make them sound better IMO, but if power is a limiting factor (few if any receivers will truly hit their wattage like an external amp will), the amp may help

I agree with this, if you like to listen very loud and in 5 channel mode you may be asking to much from your receiver. Adding a solid amp like the xpa-5 could be of benefit to you.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

This playing loud rock and really wanting to fill the room makes me think you are wanting more "kick me in the chest" type of system. This has JTR written all over it.

JTR Custom Speakers - JTR Speakers Inc.

 

[PENG]

If you like the B&W sound and 80% listening music, go with the 804S, for the L/R. Yes it costs more but for 1.5K or so, you won't regret it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Currently I run my music on 5 channel Stereo DSP as it seems to be best at filling the room with unprocessed sound.

5Ch Stereo is very PROCESSED sound. I think 5CH Stereo mode sucks on SQ. I would just use plain Stereo (2.1) for music (no DSP/ EQ).

Perhaps the B&W may sound best to you, but you might as well audition other speakers available from Revel, KEF, Focal, PSB, etc.

In my experience, the most important thing is the dual subwoofers. Get dual Funk, SVS, Rythmik, HSU, Epik, etc, subs.

So I would upgrade the subs first, then the speakers (while you take your time auditioning & comparing).

 

[lsiberian]

This playing loud rock and really wanting to fill the room makes me think you are wanting more "kick me in the chest" type of system. This has JTR written all over it.

JTR Custom Speakers - JTR Speakers Inc.

If you like rock and you like it loud the JTR is your speaker.
You will want a power amp to drive them the Peavey IPR 1600 are excellent for the task.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think the B&W speakers would be that much more capable than the Paradigms with respect to dynamic range (good at the loud stuff). Like the others have said, JTR would be much better for dynamic range. Problem with JTR is they are not very pretty. There aren't very many speakers with serious dynamic range that are also pretty and inexpensive. A separate amp isn't going to do much to make your speakers louder, you need more powerful speakers. Also a single Hsu ULS-15 isn't going to be an output beast. You will want something large and ported and efficient. I would be looking at a Rythmik FV15HP or a pair of Hsu VTF15h.

 

[UnxpectedError]

Some great info here from everyone, thanks people, exactly what i was looking for.

Sounds like expanding my budget will be required to acheive what I want, either on dual subs, and or more powerful speakers with better dynamic range(Gonna check out those JTR's).

5Ch Stereo is very PROCESSED sound.

I agree with you with this on my previous reciever (Harman Kardon AVR 635). It sucked. But on this Yammy I can't tell a difference between 2ch and 5ch stereo(I even unpluged the center and rears and tried 5ch to 2 ch direct comparison). I think the reciever just sends the right and left channels to the rears and sums them the channels for the center.

 

[j_garcia]

I agree with you with this on my previous reciever (Harman Kardon AVR 635). It sucked. But on this Yammy I can't tell a difference between 2ch and 5ch stereo(I even unpluged the center and rears and tried 5ch to 2 ch direct comparison). I think the reciever just sends the right and left channels to the rears and sums them the channels for the center.

That is the definition of all channel stereo.

 

[English210]

Back in the day, we sold Klipsch to the 'rocker' customers, does that still hold true? Efficient horns, so lots of spl for the input power?

Also, the receiver power is way down running all five channels. It's 140wpc running 2, but running 5, you're down to 70ish (there's a more accurate formula than halving, but I don't remember what it is. I would honestly run an XPA5 first, and see how the speakers respond. I think you'll be surprised at the boost you get in volume. And they'll sound better. Maybe you still will want more from the speakers, but at least you'll know. My Yamaha receiver (RXA3010, 140wpc) didn't sound as good on my main speakers alone as my 125wpc outboard Yamaha amp, although it was a close call. Just my $0.02, no change required D)

 

[lsiberian]

I don't think the B&W speakers would be that much more capable than the Paradigms with respect to dynamic range (good at the loud stuff). Like the others have said, JTR would be much better for dynamic range. Problem with JTR is they are not very pretty. There aren't very many speakers with serious dynamic range that are also pretty and inexpensive. A separate amp isn't going to do much to make your speakers louder, you need more powerful speakers. Also a single Hsu ULS-15 isn't going to be an output beast. You will want something large and ported and efficient. I would be looking at a Rythmik FV15HP or a pair of Hsu VTF15h.

I wouldn't call B&W's pretty either. Looks like some kind of alien. Let's be real if looks mater you want that piano black SVS finish.

 

[UnxpectedError]

I just made the mistake(?) of auditioning the CM9's vs the 804 Diamond......WOW....I was absolutely floored by the 804's. I'm not sure i can buy the CM9's after hearing the difference.
Looks like i've got a set of used Revel F52's in my area. Any idea how these might stack up against the 804's? They look Hideous tho.

 

[UnxpectedError]

Well, I just blew my whole budget on the Fronts lol.
Thats ok, i'll build the rest over the next year or so.

After hearing the 804's I knew I had to have them, then the dealer told me they had b-stock 803's new in box for cheaper than the 804's. It was a no brainer. My ears just cannot believe the sound that is coming out of these 803's, even using my yamaha amp these things are unreal. Crystal clear comes to mind, amazing midrange and tight lows. Very full sound with a awesome soundstage (if i understand that term).

Just finished listening to Pink Floyd The Wall front to back in 2.0 mode at +6 DB (With a good glow on lol).......WOW. The paradigms would be blown if i put them thru that.

Paid 7300 canadian Tax in, I think thats a good price in the USA isnt it? Nevermind here in Canada where the retail price is 10% higher.

What amp should i get? I was thinking about the Emotva XPR5 400W X 5.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Well, I just blew my whole budget on the Fronts lol.
Thats ok, i'll build the rest over the next year or so.

After hearing the 804's I knew I had to have them, then the dealer told me they had b-stock 803's new in box for cheaper than the 804's. It was a no brainer. My ears just cannot believe the sound that is coming out of these 803's, even using my yamaha amp these things are unreal. Crystal clear comes to mind, amazing midrange and tight lows. Very full sound with a awesome soundstage (if i understand that term).

Just finished listening to Pink Floyd The Wall front to back in 2.0 mode at +6 DB (With a good glow on lol).......WOW. The paradigms would be blown if i put them thru that.

Paid 7300 canadian Tax in, I think thats a good price in the USA isnt it? Nevermind here in Canada where the retail price is 10% higher.

What amp should i get? I was thinking about the Emotva XPR5 400W X 5.

I love the 804's if the 803's sound similar, then I would love them too. Get a good sub and enjoy.

I would get an ATI amp but other's on here love EMO, I do not.
http://www.classicaudioparts.com/ind...mplifiers.html

Now clean up those cables!!!!!

I haven't listened to my set up much lately besides as background music. Last night I put in Lord of the Ring, watched the entire thing at -16 and was blown away by my own system all-over-again.