Towers vs. Bookshelf in existing living room

[chargedmr2]

I'm pretty new to audio, and would like to set up a nice 5.1 system in several stages.

Stage one will be the two front speakers, center speaker, and a receiver (or maybe separate processor and amp?) and this is what I would like to get some advice about (Subs and surrounds will come later). Here is some info that might help out:

Budget for stage one: $3,000
Primary use: Home theater (90% movies, 10% music)
Room Size: 18'x23'x10' that opens into an attached kitchen
Flooring: Walnut hardwood, glued to concrete
Distance between speakers: minimum would be about 9'
Distance from seating to Plasma: 9'

But here's the catch. This is our main living space so my flexibility with the room is very limited and the speaker placement must work around the existing furniture layout. I may be able to talk my loving wife into towers, but as you can see in the pic below (I'll add the pic as soon as my post count allows...), their is a chair that may impede upon the placement of the left tower. Bookshelf speakers would have to go in the media center.

What would you recommend for this situation? I'm very interested in the Song Towers and may be able to hear them in my area, but in the end, I'm not sure what the best way to go is with the current room that I have to work with.

 

[njedpx3]

If you like the Song towers, then great. Get a Song center that matches them. Matching the fronts and center is very important so that you can maintian timbre ( seamless front sound). The center is especially important if you watch TV and video DVDs because most of the dialog comes from the center. Try to audition the speakers you like with the music/videos you like in a set-up similar insize to your actual HT room.

There are a lot of receivers that are good. The Audioholics online store carries Yamaha receivers at a good price. Other good brands to consider are Onkyo, Denon and Marantz.

If you like movies, second stage would be a good sub. SVS and Hsu are very good brands. The SVS sub I have would beperfect for your room, PB12-Plus.
This will make movies come alive with gun shots, explosions and earthquakes.


My Plasma is 60" and i am 9 ft away; my fronts are 10' apart it is awesome. I have Def Tech 7002s and a C/L/R 3000 center. But, Swans are excellnet speakers also.

Good Luck,

NJ

 

[chargedmr2]

I'll post a pic of the room as soon as my post count allow me to, but I have a leather recliner that sits about 3-4' in front of the left tower location, so I'm a little concerned that this might cause issues with sound. That's why I figured I better be open to bookshelf speakers as well.

I'm leaning toward the PB13 Ultra if that can handle the volume of the room (about 4,200 cubic feet).

 

[fredk]

Speakers inside a center is never a good thing. There is no room for compromise on the placement of the chair?

Looking forward to the picture.

 

[njedpx3]

I'll post a pic of the room as soon as my post count allow me to, but I have a leather recliner that sits about 3-4' in front of the left tower location, so I'm a little concerned that this might cause issues with sound. That's why I figured I better be open to bookshelf speakers as well.

I'm leaning toward the PB13 Ultra if that can handle the volume of the room (about 4,200 cubic feet).

If you set the speakers with an auto-setup or measure the distances and adjust the dB levels the left tower location won't be a problem. Speakers never seem to be in ideal locations. Obviously the right tower output will be boosted. The SVS subwoofers are awesome I have the little brother of the Ultra , the PB12-plus and it is great and my room size is about 21 x 21 x 9 = 3969 with open side and back. The Ultra should handle your larger room very well.

LOL, I just got the first of two recliners that will be two of the primary viewing listening positions.

 

[skers_54]

If you set the speakers with an auto-setup or measure the distances and adjust the dB levels the left tower location won't be a problem. Speakers never seem to be in ideal locations. Obviously the right tower output will be boosted. The SVS subwoofers are awesome I have the little brother of the Ultra , the PB12-plus and it is great and my room size is about 21 x 21 x 9 = 3969 with open side and back. The Ultra should handle your larger room very well.

LOL, I just got the first of two recliners that will be two of the primary viewing listening positions.

While you are right about matching levels, a leather chair will unevenly attenuate the sound from the blocked speaker, resulting in a shift in frequency response. The treble will be scattered or attenuated which may cause the soundstage to sound lopsided. In the real world, the effect is certainly noticible but far from the end of the world. I had to do something similar at the last place I lived at; while it did not prevent me from enjoying my movies and music, I did notice a pleasurable change after I was able to set up the speakers properly.

 

[chargedmr2]

Thanks for the replies. The chair may not be as much of a problem as I thought based on comments here. Also, the Song Towers are about 44' tall and that's without the plinths, so the height should help out with clearing the chair.

Though I won't get the sub for a while, it will also likely run into placement issues. The only viable place is in the corner of the room and behind a chair. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[chargedmr2]

Speakers inside a center is never a good thing. There is no room for compromise on the placement of the chair?

Looking forward to the picture.

Pic should be up shortly. So if placing speakers in a media center is bad, does this also mean that placing Towers alongside a media center is bad?

I can leave a little breathing room between the towers and the side of the cabinet (which is much taller than tower speakers), but not too much really. Also, these speakers will have to be placed pretty close to the back wall, but I've read that the Song Towers can handle this. I think Dennis Murphy tested at 8" without problems.

And the chair...well it is definitely not moving. It cost two thirds of my current budget and is brand new.

Edited to add the pic:

 

[markw]

Living in the real world, you can do well.

If you can put your center in that space directly above the TV, or expand into the side areas to give you more width, you will do well. You want it as close to the monitor (vertically) as possible and centered as well.

You should do well placing the mains on either side of the cabinet, although you may find a little space between them and the cabinet may help improve the sound. On the right, the plant will have to be moved a bit, and perhaps adjust the chair somewhat. On the left, it may somewhat restrict the egress to the door a little.

Of course, if you could shift the whole she-bang to the right a foot or so, most problems may evaporate like the morning dew in the first rays of sunlight.

As for bookshelf vs floorstander, the end result should be the same: The mid/tweets should be around ear level.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Not to sound disrespectful or anything but...

You have the perfect set up for eliminating the entertainment center all together. Mount that display on the wall, relocate all your gear to a closet, give your speakers some room to breath and keep the chair and wife all happy.

 

[fredk]

That setup doesn't look to bad Towers would fit either side of the entertainment center with minimal blockage as long as you can move the plant.

You could also place bookshelves on stands either side of the center.

 

[chargedmr2]

That setup doesn't look to bad Towers would fit either side of the entertainment center with minimal blockage as long as you can move the plant.

You could also place bookshelves on stands either side of the center.

I should have mentioned that the plant is only temporarily there, so it will be gone when we get speakers. Everything else has to stay essentially as it is. I realize that the media center isn't needed and its absence would benefit the sound, but getting rid of it isn't an option. My wife loves it!

On that note, how close can the towers be without causing too much of a problem?

Also, if I place the center above the TV, it will be slightly closer to the screen (vertically, as mentioned). At this height, will it need to be aimed downward toward ear level at the listening position?

 

[skers_54]

I should have mentioned that the plant is only temporarily there, so it will be gone when we get speakers. Everything else has to stay essentially as it is. I realize that the media center isn't needed and its absence would benefit the sound, but getting rid of it isn't an option. My wife loves it!

On that note, how close can the towers be without causing too much of a problem?

Also, if I place the center above the TV, it will be slightly closer to the screen (vertically, as mentioned). At this height, will it need to be aimed downward toward ear level at the listening position?

Tilting the center down would be a good idea if possible.

As for the mains, how close you can put them depends a lot on where they are in the room and what kind of speaker they are. If the speaker is close to the corner, you'll probably want it a couple feet from the entertainment stand. If its more into the room, a foot or so would probably be ok. You'll have to play with it to see if it makes a difference. The best way to test it would be to find what seems best initially, listen with them at that location for a couple days and go back and experiment again to see if there were any problems that escaped your initial evaluation.

 

[chargedmr2]

Tilting the center down would be a good idea if possible.

As for the mains, how close you can put them depends a lot on where they are in the room and what kind of speaker they are. If the speaker is close to the corner, you'll probably want it a couple feet from the entertainment stand.

Sorry to be dense, but what "corner" are you referring to? The one created by the back wall and the side of the media center? Or the actual front left corner of the room? I assume you mean the first.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for the replies. The chair may not be as much of a problem as I thought based on comments here. Also, the Song Towers are about 44' tall and that's without the plinths, so the height should help out with clearing the chair.

From your photo, I don't think you'll have any major problems. I have my SongTowers similarly arranged around a wider and deeper wall shelf system. My photo shows them moved in front of the shelves, but I think you can see what I mean.

http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/2b778c95c2ce45f6aa432373d67150a3

SongTower dimensions:
Overall height: 47.5" (including plinth & spikes)
Plinth: 10" wide × 15" deep
Tweeter height: 37"
Lower woofer height 29"

As long as your leather chair doesn't significantly block the lower woofer, it should not be a problem. I think the tweeter is high enough to be well above the chair's arm.

SongTowers can be placed back against the wall behind them (or as close as the plinths allow) without harming the bass sound. This goes against the conventional wisdom, but it has been confirmed by their designer and many owners, including myself. Because the midrange and higher frequencies have such wide dispersion, these speakers are not at all finicky about room location. You may find that you entire sofa will be within the "sweet spot" where stereo imaging is at its best.

As long as you place the front of the SongTowers so they are at least even with the front edge of your wall unit, you should be fine.

Congrats on your decision to get SongTowers! I am quite confident you'll love them. What finish are you thinking of. My photo shows unstained cherry.

 

[chargedmr2]

From your photo, I don't think you'll have any major problems. I have my SongTowers similarly arranged around a wider and deeper wall shelf system. My photo shows them moved in front of the shelves, but I think you can see what I mean.

http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/2b778c95c2ce45f6aa432373d67150a3

SongTower dimensions:
Overall height: 47.5" (including plinth & spikes)
Plinth: 10" wide × 15" deep
Tweeter height: 37"
Lower woofer height 29"

As long as your leather chair doesn't significantly block the lower woofer, it should not be a problem. I think the tweeter is high enough to be well above the chair's arm.

SongTowers can be placed back against the wall behind them (or as close as the plinths allow) without harming the bass sound. This goes against the conventional wisdom, but it has been confirmed by their designer and many owners, including myself. Because the midrange and higher frequencies have such wide dispersion, these speakers are not at all finicky about room location. You may find that you entire sofa will be within the "sweet spot" where stereo imaging is at its best.

As long as you place the front of the SongTowers so they are at least even with the front edge of your wall unit, you should be fine.

Congrats on your decision to get SongTowers! I am quite confident you'll love them. What finish are you thinking of. My photo shows unstained cherry.

Thanks for the info regarding height of the woofers, etc. The arm of the chair sits at 23" so that shouldn't be too problematic then.

I'm glad to hear that you have no issues with the Salks being placed close to back wall. I should be able to bring the front of the towers out past the side of the media center and about 6-8" off the back wall.

As far as veneers, I'm not sure what I will go with...honestly, it will probably be whatever my wife finds most attractive for the space. I'm also thinking about looking into having them constructed with a matching wood baffle that extends the length of the speakers. Not sure if I described that right, but essentially, I want them to look like the HT2s. I'll have to get in touch with Jim soon and see if that is even possible with the ST design.

 

[fredk]

Lots of great advice here! It looks like things are going to work out nicely for your. We expect payment in pictures!

 

[Swerd]

As far as veneers, I'm not sure what I will go with...honestly, it will probably be whatever my wife finds most attractive for the space. I'm also thinking about looking into having them constructed with a matching wood baffle that extends the length of the speakers. Not sure if I described that right, but essentially, I want them to look like the HT2s. I'll have to get in touch with Jim soon and see if that is even possible with the ST design.

You already have walnut floors. Is the media cabinet also walnut? Salk has a standard curly walnut finish that I think looks great.

Another view of unstained walnut is in this review.

You can ask Jim Salk about staining them to match or whatever. I like the way my cherry STs are a bit lighter than the medium cherry cabinets they sit next to. They visually stand out without looking wrong, keeping the overall cherry tone and grain.

Jim Salk, for a price, can finish your cabinets with a fully veneered front baffle. If you plan to use them with the grills in place, you might as well get the standard black baffles and save the money.

 

[skers_54]

Sorry to be dense, but what "corner" are you referring to? The one created by the back wall and the side of the media center? Or the actual front left corner of the room? I assume you mean the first.

I was referring to the actual corner of the room. Corners enhance bass output but can muddy the sound a bit. You'd want to avoid placing the speakers too close to another boundry (ie your entertainment center) as that could exacerbate the effect.

I wasn't aware that the SongTowers played that nicely with boundries. It's another plus for already great speaker!

 

[chargedmr2]

Thanks for clarifying. The corner of the room will be about 5 to 6 feet from the towers, so that should help somewhat. I'll try to situate them away from the media center as much as possible, but they will ultimately have to remain close.