Time for an upgrade

[panzeroceania]

so back in 2008 when I was really starting to get into home theater and have the means to do so, I bought a basic setup.

no name 1080p 32" LCD (Sceptre)
Onkyo TX-SR806 Receiver

and Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 speaker system.... yes, THESE speakers

needless to say the speakers are in need of an improvement and speakers are probably one of the more future proof pieces of a home theater in comparison to the other components.

I don't really want to keep buying speakers in little incremental increases though, because in the end that would cost more than just taking the dive.

There are two series of speakers I've been looking at, which are considerably different, and I'm really open to any suggestions if you have a great speaker you think would be great for me.

I'm thinking not much less that $300 per speaker but no more than $2000 per speaker.

my original plan for upgrade, on the lower end of the spectrum was NHT (Now Hear This) with their

Classic Three Speaker $350 each

ThreeC Center Channel Speaker $400

and the Classic U2 Subwoofer System $1,100 for two subs, an amp, and an electronic crossover

to build my Speaker Setup out of. These are great speakers from what I've seen and heard, are affordable, and fit the aesthetic I'm generally looking for.

They are bookshelf speakers though, damn good ones, but I've been wanting to try Some Tower Floorstanding speakers for my left and right.

Recently I came across the considerably more expensive (and I'm wondering perhaps overpriced judging by the ritzy brand name) B&W (Bowers Wilkins) with their

CM9 $1,500 each

CM Centre 2 $1,250

CM5 $750 each

and the ASW 12CM price unknown

from those two sets I'm sure you can get an idea of what I'm looking for, as far as audio quality, price range, and aesthetic. Any suggestions?

 

[Quickley17]

the 12CM is 2 grand... If you're gonna spend that much, get two SVS PB-12 Plus subs or a PB-13 Ultra.

Regarding the 3-way bookshelf speaker you listed (NHT), Don't know anything about it, but I don't think I like it... rational? Maybe not. (probably)

 

[panzeroceania]

the 12CM is 2 grand... If you're gonna spend that much, get two SVS PB-12 Plus subs or a PB-13 Ultra.

Regarding the 3-way bookshelf speaker you listed (NHT), Don't know anything about it, but I don't think I like it... rational? Maybe not. (probably)

ah, well nix the woofer then, not really worth $2000, to be honest it's the towers that caught my attention, I was just selecting a woofer that'd go with them, but lets see... the ASW 10CM is $800 so a bit more affordable

as for the NHT bookshelf, I have heard great things about them, as for the "3-way" that seems to just be a marketing line, looks like an ordinary speaker to me.


You mentioned SVS, would you recommend them for Loudspeakers as well as subwoofers?

 

[Quickley17]

as for the NHT bookshelf, I have heard great things about them, as for the "3-way" that seems to just be a marketing line, looks like an ordinary speaker to me.

3-way. three drivers. all meant to reproduce different portions of the range of frequencies. One for (with the NHT, ignoring crossover slope) 800 Hz and below, one for 800 Hz to 3.2 kHz, and one for higher than that.

I wouldn't select a subwoofer that matches the B&W just because there are much better values. If aesthetics are your thing thats different, but aesthetics and subwoofers usually don't jive too well to begin with. A lot of people will tell you there are better values for the speakers than B&W in general, but I like them and would own the CM 7 if I could. I would also own Swerd's Salk SongTowers if I could.

 

[KEW]

Speakers do more to define the sound you end up with than any other component (arguably your room may be as important). They are also the least likely to become obsolete; so it is a good plan to put your money into very good speakers up front. If money is tight, start with stereo and flush out your full home theater over time. Just don't scrimp on speakers.

The one concern is that everything is likely to sound very good after your Onkyo HTIB!

I listened to the NHT Classic Three's. They definitely have their own unique sound so you need to listen before you buy. If you have other speakers to compare them with, I think you will quickly know if they are a good candidate or not for you.

I recently bought and auditioned three pairs of stereo speakers in about the same price range as you are listing with the B&W brands.

This price range is a real sweet spot in audio. I listened to several $8,000-$16,000 speakers and none of them impressed me as really distancing the $2-2.6k speakers.

You can read about them here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59911&highlight=Salk+Focal

Since you are in Salem, you are one of few who can actually listen to the Focals!
http://www.tidepoolaudio.com/Focal.htm -They are in Portland.
They are the most accurate speaker I have heard and I love mine! If they sound a little "cold" to you, try to get a listen to the Salk SongTower or Paradigm S2 which are warmer.

These are 3 speakers which I arrived at after extensive listening, discussion, and reading. Hopefully you can use this info to get a headstart on the process. Of course, my favored sound may not match yours, but the Paradigm Signatures are fairly ubiquitous (among speakers at this price point), so if you can find a Paradigm shop and make comments on what you do and don't like about them, people here can help guide you to a very good fit for your own tastes.

If I was in your shoes, I would buy a stereo pair first. Let them settle in and let your ears adjust for a few months of active listening before committing to the entire system.

Enjoy the path!

 

[panzeroceania]

3-way. three drivers. all meant to reproduce different portions of the range of frequencies. One for (with the NHT, ignoring crossover slope) 800 Hz and below, one for 800 Hz to 3.2 kHz, and one for higher than that.

I wouldn't select a subwoofer that matches the B&W just because there are much better values. If aesthetics are your thing thats different, but aesthetics and subwoofers usually don't jive too well to begin with. A lot of people will tell you there are better values for the speakers than B&W in general, but I like them and would own the CM 7 if I could. I would also own Swerd's Salk SongTowers if I could.

right, it's hard for me to say, I'd love to listen to as much as I can, and I have gone to a few audio shops, but most of my research has been online. and as I've admitted, I have pretty sad speakers as it stands right now, sure they get the job done but in comparison to what we are discussing here and now (something you could actually listen to music with)

as far as selecting a subwoofer to match B&W, you're right, it's not going to matter tonally as much as the actual speakers, and I'm not so concerned with the aesthetic of the woofer, the speakers are a bit more important. Ultimately I want good sound but everyone has some visual preference, especially when plunking down that amount of money. Subwoofers aren't really that interesting looking no matter who you get them from so you made a good point about value.

I'll have a look into the Salk Song Tower, thanks for the tip.

Speakers do more to define the sound you end up with than any other component (arguably your room may be as important). They are also the least likely to become obsolete; so it is a good plan to put your money into very good speakers up front. If money is tight, start with stereo and flush out your full home theater over time. Just don't scrimp on speakers

you really read my mind on this one, I know my first purchase was an ultra cheap 7.1 setup, but this is what I meant by speakers being the most future proof. And I've since wised up (probably just from being around the community and reading) that it's better to start with good stereo and work your way out.

The one concern is that everything is likely to sound very good after your Onkyo HTIB!

ha, no kidding, a bit embarrassing but we all have to start somewhere. In any case I have had a chance to listen outside my home but I think you're right, it'd be better to audition them in my home for awhile before getting the whole set. My room isn't perfect, but then, few people's are, I do plan to invest in some basic room treatment though, nothing fancy, just a few wall panels.

I listened to the NHT Classic Three's. They definitely have their own unique sound so you need to listen before you buy. If you have other speakers to compare them with, I think you will quickly know if they are a good candidate or not for you.

I recently bought and auditioned three pairs of stereo speakers in about the same price range as you are listing with the B&W brands.

This price range is a real sweet spot in audio. I listened to several $8,000-$16,000 speakers and none of them impressed me as really distancing the $2-2.6k speakers.

You can read about them here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59911&highlight=Salk+Focal

Since you are in Salem, you are one of few who can actually listen to the Focals!
http://www.tidepoolaudio.com/Focal.htm -They are in Portland.
They are the most accurate speaker I have heard and I love mine! If they sound a little "cold" to you, try to get a listen to the Salk SongTower or Paradigm S2 which are warmer.

These are 3 speakers which I arrived at after extensive listening, discussion, and reading. Hopefully you can use this info to get a headstart on the process. Of course, my favored sound may not match yours, but the Paradigm Signatures are fairly ubiquitous (among speakers at this price point), so if you can find a Paradigm shop and make comments on what you do and don't like about them, people here can help guide you to a very good fit for your own tastes.

If I was in your shoes, I would buy a stereo pair first. Let them settle in and let your ears adjust for a few months of active listening before committing to the entire system.

Enjoy the path!

I also agree it's a good price range for speakers, thank you for the tip to the location in portland, for whatever reason I haven't been in to listen to those so I'm thrilled at this prospect, I'll let you know how it goes when I do get the opportunity.

Thank you both for your help, I'll probably spend this spring researching and listening around, I really don't want to make this kind of decision hastily.

~Panzer Oceania -- Tim Lawrence

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

my original plan for upgrade, on the lower end of the spectrum was NHT (Now Hear This) with their

Classic Three Speaker $350 each

ThreeC Center Channel Speaker $400

and the Classic U2 Subwoofer System $1,100 for two subs, an amp, and an electronic crossover

OMG.

Our brains must be on a similar wavelength!

Just for fun, I was asking myself what I would get as an "alternative" or "2nd" system - just for fun.

And I thought about FIVE NHT Classic Three + the Classic U2 dual Subwoofer system.

2 things I was concentrating on:

1) Pure Direct mode for 2.0 music.

I would connect the Pre-Out from the Pre-Pro to the Stereo Inputs of the NHT X1. Then connect the Stereo Hi-Pass Output of the X1 to my external amplifiers (I also "fantasized" about getting FIVE NHT A1 monoblocks).

2) Having Separate Amps from the Subwoofer/Speakers.

There is a reason why speaker/subwoofer drivers get a longer warranty period than the amps. It's because amps tend to malfunction more frequently compared to the speaker drivers. So having everything SEPARATE is IMO the preferred route.

I wonder if NHT will come out with a replacement to their old discontinued Pre-Pro to include more HDMI I/Os and HD-Audio, etc.?

So I imagined having 5 NHT Classic Three + NHT Classic U2 + 5 NHT A1 monoblocks + NHT Pre-Pro.

P.S.
I prefer a vertical Center speaker to a horizontal one, and having 5 identical speakers is theorectically more ideal.

P.P.S.
Oh, and I also imagined getting a 82" Mitsubishi DLP HDTV for $3,600 (free S/H) from amazon.

 

[panzeroceania]

wow that's incredible, I wasn't planning on doing it yet but I too have thought and fantasized about doing separate mono amps, and I've also really liked what I've seen out of Mitsubishi's Displays. I'd love to see their laser TVs in action.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

After owning the NHT 2.5s for a couple of weeks, I would look for a pair of good used ones. This is by far the most impressive speaker I have ever bought for 400 bucks!

OMG.

Our brains must be on a similar wavelength!

Just for fun, I was asking myself what I would get as an "alternative" or "2nd" system - just for fun.

And I thought about FIVE NHT Classic Three + the Classic U2 dual Subwoofer system.

2 things I was concentrating on:

1) Pure Direct mode for 2.0 music.

I would connect the Pre-Out from the Pre-Pro to the Stereo Inputs of the NHT X1. Then connect the Stereo Hi-Pass Output of the X1 to my external amplifiers (I also "fantasized" about getting FIVE NHT A1 monoblocks).

2) Having Separate Amps from the Subwoofer/Speakers.

There is a reason why speaker/subwoofer drivers get a longer warranty period than the amps. It's because amps tend to malfunction more frequently compared to the speaker drivers. So having everything SEPARATE is IMO the preferred route.

I wonder if NHT will come out with a replacement to their old discontinued Pre-Pro to include more HDMI I/Os and HD-Audio, etc.?

So I imagined having 5 NHT Classic Three + NHT Classic U2 + 5 NHT A1 monoblocks + NHT Pre-Pro.

P.S.
I prefer a vertical Center speaker to a horizontal one, and having 5 identical speakers is theorectically more ideal.

P.P.S.
Oh, and I also imagined getting a 82" Mitsubishi DLP HDTV for $3,600 (free S/H) from amazon.

 

[smitty78]

That's a pretty broad pricerange $300-2000 per speaker. With that being said, you have many options. Without knowing what particular sound you are looking for, it can be a crapshoot when asking for suggestions and picking someone else's preferred speakers. Some folks like them loud and powerful for a dramatic theatrical experience, while others prefer a more accurate and laid back setup that does particularly well for music applications. While you can have a musical set of floorstanders do well with movies in a 5.1 configuration, there are some poweful HT speakers that literally stink playing a wide range of musical recordings.

If you were willing to spend up to $2000 on a speaker, I would be looking in the neighborhood of Dynaudio (Focus), Dali (Ikon and Helicon series), JM Lab/Focal, Epos, Energy (Veritas), Vienna Acoustics, Salk and Totem. These are all nice speakers that look just as elegant as they sound. I have heard many offerings from all of these speakers with the exception of the Salks. The Salks are highly praised by thier owners for their sound and I have yet to hear a bad review (not to mention the gorgeous veneer finishes he offers).

Just trying to reccommend something outside of the [].

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After owning the NHT 2.5s for a couple of weeks, I would look for a pair of good used ones. This is by far the most impressive speaker I have ever bought for 400 bucks!

I do like NHT a lot. I think NHT speakers sound very clear & real.

 

[panzeroceania]

That's a pretty broad pricerange $300-2000 per speaker. With that being said, you have many options. Without knowing what particular sound you are looking for, it can be a crapshoot when asking for suggestions and picking someone else's preferred speakers. Some folks like them loud and powerful for a dramatic theatrical experience, while others prefer a more accurate and laid back setup that does particularly well for music applications. While you can have a musical set of floorstanders do well with movies in a 5.1 configuration, there are some poweful HT speakers that literally stink playing a wide range of musical recordings.

If you were willing to spend up to $2000 on a speaker, I would be looking in the neighborhood of Dynaudio (Focus), Dali (Ikon and Helicon series), JM Lab/Focal, Epos, Energy (Veritas), Vienna Acoustics, Salk and Totem. These are all nice speakers that look just as elegant as they sound. I have heard many offerings from all of these speakers with the exception of the Salks. The Salks are highly praised by thier owners for their sound and I have yet to hear a bad review (not to mention the gorgeous veneer finishes he offers).

Just trying to reccommend something outside of the [].

thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely need some time to really look into all of them.

To answer your questions, I'm using my setup primarily for movies right now, but I would LOVE to use it more for music. I don't need a big theater experience in sound, I mean I love surround but I am shooting for high accuracy and the ability to reproduce music as well as movies.

I know I put out a big range but I did sort of want varied opinions.

let me put it this way, I'll probably end up buying at the higher end, I want to get good speakers that I don't feel the need to replace, and want to impress. What I don't want to do is spend money for brand name rather than sound, this is where I need guidance, in being efficient with my money.

I guess another reason for my broad range is I've really liked what I've read and seen, and to a very limited amount, what I've heard from the two speaker setups I meantioned. I remember reading about NHT speakers ina Audioholics "recommended systems" it wasn't actually the main speaker being recommended, but an alternative, it seems in their recommended systems they have speakers that cost a little, and then speakers that cost many thousands but not many recommendations in between.

I ran into the B&H speakers at Chelsea Audio in Portland Oregon and was quite impressed.

 

[smitty78]

thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely need some time to really look into all of them.

To answer your questions, I'm using my setup primarily for movies right now, but I would LOVE to use it more for music. I don't need a big theater experience in sound, I mean I love surround but I am shooting for high accuracy and the ability to reproduce music as well as movies.

I know I put out a big range but I did sort of want varied opinions.

let me put it this way, I'll probably end up buying at the higher end, I want to get good speakers that I don't feel the need to replace, and want to impress. What I don't want to do is spend money for brand name rather than sound, this is where I need guidance, in being efficient with my money.

I guess another reason for my broad range is I've really liked what I've read and seen, and to a very limited amount, what I've heard from the two speaker setups I meantioned. I remember reading about NHT speakers ina Audioholics "recommended systems" it wasn't actually the main speaker being recommended, but an alternative, it seems in their recommended systems they have speakers that cost a little, and then speakers that cost many thousands but not many recommendations in between.

I ran into the B&H speakers at Chelsea Audio in Portland Oregon and was quite impressed.

You've got the right idea.

I have no experience with NHTs, so I cannot comment on thier sound. The ideal thing to do is pick a pair that you have listened to with your preferred music because that is what will matter the most. Like I said, if you find a set of floorstanders that you enjoy with your music, you will like the the way they handle HT.

Honestly, I have listened to some floorstanding speakers in the $800-1500 per pair range that I liked and could live with for awhile but after auditioning a few Danish speakers, I just fell in love with thier sound. That audition ended up doubling my original budget, maybe even more but I have no regrets. I'm not one to rush into a big purchase anyways. I took many trips to many places before I finally found the right set. If you are looking for a set of speakers for the next 10 years or so, it's best to make the effort to listen to as many speakers as you possibly can.

For me, I found that Danish speakers had the sound I was looking for. If you get the opportunity to listen to some, you should. The Dynaudios and Dalis I listened to had very good imaging and instrument seperation ...every detail can be heard without those harsh highs, mainly because of the high quality tweeters that are used. Some of the Dali speakers even use a two stage ribbon design. They are silky smooth and very pleasant to listen to. I find Dynaudios to have an edge on the Dalis when it comes to rock music and HT. They are not as laid back and linear as the Dalis. They are still neutral and accurate compared to many others but just have a bit more 'punch' to them than the Dalis. I like this about the dyns. You can find a used pair of Dynaudio Focus 220s for under $2500 but expect to purchase a seperate amp to power these hungry rascals. The Dalis are more effecient speakers and can be run off a mid level receiver (depending on the model). The Ikon 6 can be had for under $2500 new...even cheaper used.

Don't count out bookshelfs, either. A good set of bookshelves/monitors can do well really well in a HT and even with 2 channel music ...some even reaching as low as 40 Hz. Being as you would more than likely be looking to get a subwoofer for HT, this makes a moot point when looking for HT speakers. I would pick a pair of Dynaudio or Dali bookshelves over many $1500floorstanders because I like my music to sound realistic and not too colored or boomy. I found that many of the 'popular' brands suffer from this. Some people like thier speakers to have an exaggerated sound and that is fine too. It's all subjective anyways.

 

[TLS Guy]

so back in 2008 when I was really starting to get into home theater and have the means to do so, I bought a basic setup.

no name 1080p 32" LCD (Sceptre)
Onkyo TX-SR806 Receiver

and Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 speaker system.... yes, THESE speakers

needless to say the speakers are in need of an improvement and speakers are probably one of the more future proof pieces of a home theater in comparison to the other components.

I don't really want to keep buying speakers in little incremental increases though, because in the end that would cost more than just taking the dive.

There are two series of speakers I've been looking at, which are considerably different, and I'm really open to any suggestions if you have a great speaker you think would be great for me.

I'm thinking not much less that $300 per speaker but no more than $2000 per speaker.

my original plan for upgrade, on the lower end of the spectrum was NHT (Now Hear This) with their

Classic Three Speaker $350 each

ThreeC Center Channel Speaker $400

and the Classic U2 Subwoofer System $1,100 for two subs, an amp, and an electronic crossover

to build my Speaker Setup out of. These are great speakers from what I've seen and heard, are affordable, and fit the aesthetic I'm generally looking for.

They are bookshelf speakers though, damn good ones, but I've been wanting to try Some Tower Floorstanding speakers for my left and right.

Recently I came across the considerably more expensive (and I'm wondering perhaps overpriced judging by the ritzy brand name) B&W (Bowers Wilkins) with their

CM9 $1,500 each

CM Centre 2 $1,250

CM5 $750 each

and the ASW 12CM price unknown

from those two sets I'm sure you can get an idea of what I'm looking for, as far as audio quality, price range, and aesthetic. Any suggestions?

The B & W CM series sounds excellent. That range is a good mid priced speaker system and well towards the top of the pack. I agree about the sub advice. I'm not impressed with B & W subs at all.